Nitto ATP Finals, 2019, London

[mrzz]

Ask Moxie..I was commenting in regards to her post.

No man, I am really interested in the debate, in the case in point: to what extent do you think Nadal flattened out his forehand, comparing to other periods, like 2013 or 2008, for example. My gut reaction is that I don't see that much of a difference, but I never looked for that as I assumed he wouldn't. Anyway will watch his next match (hope I can see some tennis actually) paying attention to this.

If you don't wanna get in to an old debate (at least for you, I wasn't part of it), no problem as well.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Now that it is clear Fed sucks, Ralph will get no assists. If he wants to be #1, he has to fight all by himself and then pray.
It is probably safe to assume Novak will win WTF. In that case, Ralph can't stop Novak from claiming #1, even if he (Ralph) wins all his matches in RR.

In order to stop Novak from claiming #1, Ralph needs to do all of the following.

1. Win at least two RR matches.
2. Reach SF.
3. and win SF.

and pray that Novak loses one RR match.

In the above scenario, Ralph's lead will become 640 + 400 + 400 = 1440. If Novak wins WTF without losing a match, then he gets 1500 points thus overtaking Rafa. So, Novak needs to lose one RR match and so the prayer.

If he wants to do it without prayer, Ralph must win all three RR matches and then win SF also. Then, Novak cannot claim #1 even if he wins WTF without losing a single match.

If you guys think that ole Rog is going to lay down and let Novak drive the bus over him , then you haven't been paying attention..I expect Roger will have vengeance of what occurred at SW19 and will find a way to defeat Novak.

 

[the AntiPusher]

No man, I am really interested in the debate, in the case in point: to what extent do you think Nadal flattened out his forehand, comparing to other periods, like 2013 or 2008, for example. My gut reaction is that I don't see that much of a difference, but I never looked for that as I assumed he wouldn't. Anyway will watch his next match (hope I can see some tennis actually) paying attention to this.

If you don't wanna get in to an old debate (at least for you, I wasn't part of it), no problem as well.

All due respect,
I don't want to waste the energy .

 

[Moxie]

Now that it is clear Fed sucks, Ralph will get no assists. If he wants to be #1, he has to fight all by himself and then pray.
It is probably safe to assume Novak will win WTF. In that case, Ralph can't stop Novak from claiming #1, even if he (Ralph) wins all his matches in RR.

In order to stop Novak from claiming #1, Ralph needs to do all of the following.

1. Win at least two RR matches.
2. Reach SF.
3. and win SF.

and pray that Novak loses one RR match.

In the above scenario, Ralph's lead will become 640 + 400 + 400 = 1440. If Novak wins WTF without losing a match, then he gets 1500 points thus overtaking Rafa. So, Novak needs to lose one RR match and so the prayer.

If he wants to do it without prayer, Ralph must win all three RR matches and then win SF also. Then, Novak cannot claim #1 even if he wins WTF without losing a single match.

It is clear that your worry is that Novak not end the year at #1, thus threatening Roger's record of # of weeks at number 1. You don't even entertain the notion that Rafa could win the title. For the Nadal fan, the YE#1 is not really a huge deal, as it is not for Rafa, I don't believe. (Ever the sage, he has said recently, "I sleep just as well at #2 as at #1, though I prefer to be #1. ) It would be nice, but not as critical for the resume as the title. As a Nadal fan, I like to think that he'll not only take the year end #1, but win the YEC, finally, as well.

 

[Bonaca]

I said Federer will not make it to semi finals+ Djokovic thiem would beat him, speaking on thiem he now beat Federer 3 times in a row all this year two on hard courts he starting to own Federer just like nadal djokovic h2h 5-2.

Yeah it looks like.
But the h2h sample isn’t big enough to make it significant, statistically spoken. They will never play 50 times against each other.
But so far your prediction was perfect

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I see your point..Rafa cares more about being the number one seed at AO then the number one ranking.Is that correct?

Nothing changes between being seeded number one or number two at the AO. After that it’s just the luck of the draw.

 

[Moxie]

Oh no..this is yours..I just agreed and remember the past.

What a meek response from the guy who said you've been arguing for it for ages, and complained that Broken didn't agree with you. Fine, then I'll respond to Mrzz. @mrzz said:

"You mentioned that in another post as well. Ok, to what extent are you actually saying he flatten out his forehand (and the forehand specifically)? I mean, I might remember one point here and there to finish it up, but, in general? Hard court specific maybe there is some change, but he is still among the guys who the greatest amount of top spin -- if not the on top of the list. Without getting into any personal fight, what are you objectively saying about this? Not what you think it should be done, but what already happened. I am really curious."

I am no tactician, but Rafa has flattened out his shots to suit the surface and occasion. He does it selectively, as a way to end the point, and mostly on HC/grass. Also, he does do it mainly on the BH. But my idea was that, in this particular tournament, and given that he has an ab issue, that he could employ the flatter shot more. If the surface isn't going to take his spin, then why not go flatter, and avoid putting the torque on the core, for no reason? It's not like he's incapable of hitting a flat shot. In this case, he should also stand in more, and take the ball earlier. Well, it could happen.

 

[monfed]

The high bounce at WTF undid Fed. It will favour dull but don't know if it will be enough against jawkovic.

Fed still looks like a broken man.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah it looks like.
But the h2h sample isn’t big enough to make it significant, statistically spoken. They will never play 50 times against each other.
But so far your prediction was perfect

No one will ever play Roger, or each other, as much as the Big 3 have. Only a few players have a h2h advantage on Roger, even now, so it does matter, especially given that Thiem is seriously in the mix. I made the case above for why Thiem does have the advantage, but it doesn't change the fact.

 

[Moxie]

The high bounce at WTF undid Fed. It will favour dull but don't know if it will be enough against jawkovic.

Fed still looks like a broken man.

Since when has there been a high bounce at the WTF? And if there were more bounce, then how do you explain how many times Roger hit the ball into the net? It is pathetic when Fed fans make his losses about the fault of the surface. Especially as they praise him for being an "all-surface man." (As you did, in a recent post.) Indoor HC is one of his most felicitous surfaces. He was flat today and Thiem was white-hot. No other explanation or excuse.

 

[monfed]

Since when has there been a high bounce at the WTF? And if there were more bounce, then how do you explain how many times Roger hit the ball into the net? It is pathetic when Fed fans make his losses about the fault of the surface. Especially as they praise him for being an "all-surface man." (As you did, in a recent post.) Indoor HC is one of his most felicitous surfaces. He was flat today and Thiem was white-hot. No other explanation or excuse.

If there's more bounce Fed has a problem with his timing. Since when it's been high bouncing? I don't know I haven't kept track but this year it's high bouncing.

It's not an indoor HC like Rotterdam or some other quicker ones of the past like when TMC was in Shanghai.

 

[the AntiPusher]

What a meek response from the guy who said you've been arguing for it for ages, and complained that Broken didn't agree with you. Fine, then I'll respond to Mrzz. @mrzz said:

"You mentioned that in another post as well. Ok, to what extent are you actually saying he flatten out his forehand (and the forehand specifically)? I mean, I might remember one point here and there to finish it up, but, in general? Hard court specific maybe there is some change, but he is still among the guys who the greatest amount of top spin -- if not the on top of the list. Without getting into any personal fight, what are you objectively saying about this? Not what you think it should be done, but what already happened. I am really curious."

I am no tactician, but Rafa has flattened out his shots to suit the surface and occasion. He does it selectively, as a way to end the point, and mostly on HC/grass. Also, he does do it mainly on the BH. But my idea was that, in this particular tournament, and given that he has an ab issue, that he could employ the flatter shot more. If the surface isn't going to take his spin, then why not go flatter, and avoid putting the torque on the core, for no reason? It's not like he's incapable of hitting a flat shot. In this case, he should also stand in more, and take the ball earlier. Well, it could happen.

Moxie..not a meek response and I didn’t give a rats ass if BS agreed with me.my point was that Rafa can flatten out his fh at times just like you posted..BS said it couldn’t be accomplished by Rafa.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie..not a meek response and I didn’t give a rats ass if BS agreed with me.my point was that Rafa can flatten out his fh at times just like you posted..BS said it couldn’t be accomplished by Rafa.

I don't actually he flattens out the FH so much, or should. I said it was the bh.

 

[Moxie]

If there's more bounce Fed has a problem with his timing. Since when it's been high bouncing? I don't know I haven't kept track but this year it's high bouncing.

It's not an indoor HC like Rotterdam or some other quicker ones of the past like when TMC was in Shanghai.

You've watched maybe 4 matches on this court and you've judged it from TV? Perhaps you were there today, and if so, forgive me. Otherwise, you have no idea what this court is playing like. Or Rotterdam or Shanghai. What a load of BS. Have you played any of these courts? Have you sat and watched them all played live? I am frankly a bit tired of armchair warriors telling the rest of us how the courts are playing, especially with any sense of authority. And especially in using it as an excuse for a poor performance by Roger today, or otherwise. Indoor HCs are his bread and butter. It wasn't the slow pace or high bounce of the court that lost him the match today. It was his own mediocre performance, and Thiem's stellar one.

 

[Bonaca]

No one will ever play Roger, or each other, as much as the Big 3 have. Only a few players have a h2h advantage on Roger, even now, so it does matter, especially given that Thiem is seriously in the mix. I made the case above for why Thiem does have the advantage, but it doesn't change the fact.

The fact is clear.
I’m Just saying that you cannot take the same information out of such different sample sizes.

 

[Bonaca]

My prediction for today:

Daniil and Nadal in two sets.

 

[Andy22]

My prediction for today:

Daniil and Nadal in two sets.

we have not had a 3 setter yet it would be good if Medvedev match goes that far but Medvedev most likely win, of course nadal will win in straight sets should be a good day of tennis.

 

[Bonaca]

You've watched maybe 4 matches on this court and you've judged it from TV? Perhaps you were there today, and if so, forgive me. Otherwise, you have no idea what this court is playing like. Or Rotterdam or Shanghai. What a load of BS. Have you played any of these courts? Have you sat and watched them all played live? I am frankly a bit tired of armchair warriors telling the rest of us how the courts are playing, especially with any sense of authority. And especially in using it as an excuse for a poor performance by Roger today, or otherwise. Indoor HCs are his bread and butter. It wasn't the slow pace or high bounce of the court that lost him the match today. It was his own mediocre performance, and Thiem's stellar one.

I nearly totaly agree. I just woud not call Thiems performance stellar.

 

[monfed]

You've watched maybe 4 matches on this court and you've judged it from TV? Perhaps you were there today, and if so, forgive me. Otherwise, you have no idea what this court is playing like. Or Rotterdam or Shanghai. What a load of BS. Have you played any of these courts? Have you sat and watched them all played live? I am frankly a bit tired of armchair warriors telling the rest of us how the courts are playing, especially with any sense of authority. And especially in using it as an excuse for a poor performance by Roger today, or otherwise. Indoor HCs are his bread and butter. It wasn't the slow pace or high bounce of the court that lost him the match today. It was his own mediocre performance, and Thiem's stellar one.

Much like dull is undefeated when healthy.

 

[Front242]

we have not had a 3 setter yet it would be good if Medvedev match goes that far but Medvedev most likely win, of course nadal will win in straight sets should be a good day of tennis.

We'll see. Zverev has a new lease of life lately and if he has any self respect he won't go down meekly as defending champion. He may just tear your goat a new one if he serves as well as he has the last month or so.