Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

[El Dude]

Here's how good Nadal has been on clay: According to Ultimate Tennis Statistics, he has as many clay "GOAT points" as the next two greatest clay courters combined.

1. Nadal 351
2. Vilas 176
3. Borg 175
4. Lendl 147
5. Djokovic 128
6. Federer 110

That's just nuts - and he's not done yet.

For comparison, here's grass:

1. Federer 179
2. Connors 127
3. Sampras 109
4. Borg 91
5. Newcombe 89
...10. Djokovic 75
...12. Murray 64
...14 Nadal 46

And here's hards:

1. Federer 454
2. Djokovic 392
3. Agassi 252
4. Sampras 228
5. Lendl 202
6. Nadal 200
7. Murray 186

Roger's grass lead is pretty unassailable at this point, but Novak will likely pass him in the hard court category.

 

[Moxie]

Here's how good Nadal has been on clay: According to Ultimate Tennis Statistics, he has as many clay "GOAT points" as the next two greatest clay courters combined.

1. Nadal 351
2. Vilas 176
3. Borg 175
4. Lendl 147
5. Djokovic 128
6. Federer 110

That's just nuts - and he's not done yet.

For comparison, here's grass:

1. Federer 179
2. Connors 127
3. Sampras 109
4. Borg 91
5. Newcombe 89
...10. Djokovic 75
...12. Murray 64
...14 Nadal 46

And here's hards:

1. Federer 454
2. Djokovic 392
3. Agassi 252
4. Sampras 228
5. Lendl 202
6. Nadal 200
7. Murray 186

Roger's grass lead is pretty unassailable at this point, but Novak will likely pass him in the hard court category.

I'm not sure how these "GOAT" points are assembled, but we do understand that Nadal is the far and away GOAT on clay. I suspect this is one of the things that makes some Fed fans so tetchy...Roger will be surpassed eventually, in some of his records, and there are a lot of them. But Rafa's on clay will probably stand longer. It's not the only reason that people denigrate his clay records or prowess, since they've been doing it for years, and continue to do so now. But it's a reason they're especially unhappy about it now.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

The word that Federer fans have used the most in their lives is: CLAY

 

[Front242]

The word that Federer fans have used the most in their lives is: CLAY

Wrong. It's still a 4 letter C word though but nice try.

 

[Ricardo]

Here's how good Nadal has been on clay: According to Ultimate Tennis Statistics, he has as many clay "GOAT points" as the next two greatest clay courters combined.

1. Nadal 351
2. Vilas 176
3. Borg 175
4. Lendl 147
5. Djokovic 128
6. Federer 110

That's just nuts - and he's not done yet.

For comparison, here's grass:

1. Federer 179
2. Connors 127
3. Sampras 109
4. Borg 91
5. Newcombe 89
...10. Djokovic 75
...12. Murray 64
...14 Nadal 46

And here's hards:

1. Federer 454
2. Djokovic 392
3. Agassi 252
4. Sampras 228
5. Lendl 202
6. Nadal 200
7. Murray 186

Roger's grass lead is pretty unassailable at this point, but Novak will likely pass him in the hard court category.

Any stats putting Borg below Vilas is worthless, no matter how you twist it. To make it worse, Connors better than Borg on grass? Lendl below Vilas on clay? Wilander below fed and Djoker?

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Any stats putting Borg below Vilas is worthless, no matter how you twist it. To make it worse, Connors better than Borg on grass? Lendl below Vilas on clay? Wilander below fed and Djoker?

That sites puts quantity over quality in a lot of these subjective stuff.

Great site for the stats though.

 

[El Dude]

Any stats putting Borg below Vilas is worthless, no matter how you twist it. To make it worse, Connors better than Borg on grass? Lendl below Vilas on clay? Wilander below fed and Djoker?

"Worthless" is a huge overstatement, as it isn't either/or, but I agree that it is far from perfect and I also would rank Borg and Lendl over Vilas. The problem with any such system is that there's always arbitrary weighting involved, and GOAT points don't seem to weigh the premier statistics strongly enough (e.g. Slam titles, YE1, weeks at #1, etc), and thus over-value players with longevity (e.g. Connors, Vilas or Ferrer) and undervalue players with a high peak (e.g. Borg). But there's no way around some degree of subjectivity.

But my point in posting that was because it illustrates quite well just how dominant Rafa has been on clay, and I do think it is accurate to say that his clay resume is equal or greater than any two others combined. To me that's rather extraordinary. As Moxie said, everyone knows that Rafa is the King of Clay, but this sort of thing drives the point home further.

 

[Moxie]

"Worthless" is a huge overstatement, as it isn't either/or, but I agree that it is far from perfect and I also would rank Borg and Lendl over Vilas. The problem with any such system is that there's always arbitrary weighting involved, and GOAT points don't seem to weigh the premier statistics strongly enough (e.g. Slam titles, YE1, weeks at #1, etc), and thus over-value players with longevity (e.g. Connors, Vilas or Ferrer) and undervalue players with a high peak (e.g. Borg). But there's no way around some degree of subjectivity.

But my point in posting that was because it illustrates quite well just how dominant Rafa has been on clay, and I do think it is accurate to say that his clay resume is equal or greater than any two others combined. To me that's rather extraordinary. As Moxie said, everyone knows that Rafa is the King of Clay, but this sort of thing drives the point home further.

Good post. I have some problems with the way that site weighs GOAT points, but it's generally useful for stats. But it's also illustrative of how hard it is to compare across eras. Vilas, I think we all know here by now, chased clay tournaments across the globe and so has a big clay resume. Likewise, and without looking it up, I imagine that Connors played when there were more grass tournaments than when Sampras played. And as you say, longevity features. We all know how many match wins Connors has, or at least the Feddies do. All comparisons need a bit of context.

 

[Ricardo]

"Worthless" is a huge overstatement, as it isn't either/or, but I agree that it is far from perfect and I also would rank Borg and Lendl over Vilas. The problem with any such system is that there's always arbitrary weighting involved, and GOAT points don't seem to weigh the premier statistics strongly enough (e.g. Slam titles, YE1, weeks at #1, etc), and thus over-value players with longevity (e.g. Connors, Vilas or Ferrer) and undervalue players with a high peak (e.g. Borg). But there's no way around some degree of subjectivity.

But my point in posting that was because it illustrates quite well just how dominant Rafa has been on clay, and I do think it is accurate to say that his clay resume is equal or greater than any two others combined. To me that's rather extraordinary. As Moxie said, everyone knows that Rafa is the King of Clay, but this sort of thing drives the point home further.

Fact that Nadal is far in front of everyone on clay is just obvious, you don’t need some nonsense stats to state the obvious...any stats that results in Vilas above Borg and Lendl on clay, Connors above Sampras and Borg on grass is simply rubbish. It’s against common sense really. Put simply, Nadal has more rg than any other two players combined...that’s how far he is.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal still holds the masters titles record with 33!

Congrats to Kachanov who when Nadal plays is considered an easy draw but who beat Djokovic in straights sets! Same for players like Anderson, Del Potro, etc. Huh Fedfans? B-)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Nadal still holds the masters titles record with 33!

Congrats to Kachanov who when Nadal plays is considered an easy draw but who beat Djokovic in straights sets! Same for players like Anderson, Del Potro, etc. Huh Fedfans? B-)

Come on KK is an up and coming player and is difficult to judge his level when he is moving up. Everybody thought KK will give Rafa some fight. I too thought so. But, I did not expect that kind of great fight from KK against Rafa, even though he ended up losing.

 

[herios]

KK is already better than 3 months ago. He said it himself, his victory in Moscow gave him a lot of confidence .

 

[GameSetAndMath]

KK is already better than 3 months ago. He said it himself, his victory in Moscow gave him a lot of confidence .

Yep, was not that his first title?

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

 

[Carol]

Nadal is going to go through a surgery of his ankle. It's not a serious injury but they have to remove a "free body" of his ankle

 

[Moxie]

Bummer. Oh, well...thanks for the update, Carol.

 

[Carol]

Bummer. Oh, well...thanks for the update, Carol.

He has a piece of cartilage detached which can affect the knees, ankles, etc and he was feeling some discomfort for awhile . If it's for good and he can be in perfect conditions for the AO then it's a good time to do it though I would have liked to see him playing well in London, but...

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

He has a piece of cartilage detached which can affect the knees, ankles, etc and he was feeling some discomfort for awhile . If it's for good and he can be in perfect conditions for the AO then it's a good time to do it though I would have liked to see him playing well in London, but...

Are you spanish?

 

[Carol]

Are you spanish?

I'm from Spain, you can tell, isn't?

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

I'm from Spain, you can tell, isn't?

I wasn't sure

Bad luck for Nadal.Wish him speedy recovery.
He usually plays better after long breaks so that's a little silver lining I guess.