Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

[El Dude]

Quick question - I think I missed this. I know he's not going to play RG and Wimbledon, but is he planning on trying for the USO?

 

[Kieran]

I appreciate your appreciation! But really, I'm a tennis fan above all else - I love tennis, and by extension Rafa (and all the greats). I don't see how one couldn't be awed by his accomplishments, respect the man for who he was (and to be honest, I probably like his perceivable personality more than Roger or Novak) and--if you're a statnerd like me--get a bit of a "stat boner" when looking at his accomplishments.

That best of 5 record is insane.

What do you like more about his personality than Roger’s or Novak’s?

 

[Moxie]

I appreciate your appreciation! But really, I'm a tennis fan above all else - I love tennis, and by extension Rafa (and all the greats). I don't see how one couldn't be awed by his accomplishments, respect the man for who he was (and to be honest, I probably like his perceivable personality more than Roger or Novak) and--if you're a statnerd like me--get a bit of a "stat boner" when looking at his accomplishments.

That best of 5 record is insane.

One of the crazier aspects of it is that you don't even really have to look up who those 3 losses were to, they were so notable.

I'm not clear about what Rafa is trying to come back for this year, tbh, except Davis Cup.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

One of the crazier aspects of it is that you don't even really have to look up who those 3 losses were to, they were so notable.

I'm not clear about what Rafa is trying to come back for this year, tbh, except Davis Cup.

Moxie,
He said he would try to play DC, thats why I asked if he wanted to play Olympic games in 2024, and he hasnt played DC in years, does he have to play DC this year to qualify to play Olmpics in 2024

 

[El Dude]

What do you like more about his personality than Roger’s or Novak’s?

Well, maybe I'll explain first by what I don't like about Roger and Novak. For Roger, he kind of represents the illusion of a kind of benign economic elitism - Rolex, Swiss money, etc. I think Roger is a nice guy and I like his general vibe, but I don't like the "Euro-elitism." For Novak, he just has a kind of grating quality - tries too hard to be liked, to be funny, etc, and I still have memories of the shirt tearing (On the other hand, I like the fact that he's into woohoo stuff, and I feel like he can be very articulate).

Rafa has a more salt-of-the-earth vibe - a boy from the islands. I also really enjoy his shrug, and when he gets a bit feisty with the press. He just seems like a chill dude - and I like his combo of chillness and intensity. He's also amazingly humble - and I think in an authentic way - for someone so accomplished.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Well, maybe I'll explain first by what I don't like about Roger and Novak. For Roger, he kind of represents the illusion of a kind of benign economic elitism - Rolex, Swiss money, etc. I think Roger is a nice guy and I like his general vibe, but I don't like the "Euro-elitism." For Novak, he just has a kind of grating quality - tries too hard to be liked, to be funny, etc, and I still have memories of the shirt tearing (On the other hand, I like the fact that he's into woohoo stuff, and I feel like he can be very articulate).

Rafa has a more salt-of-the-earth vibe - a boy from the islands. I also really enjoy his shrug, and when he gets a bit feisty with the press. He just seems like a chill dude - and I like his combo of chillness and intensity. He's also amazingly humble - and I think in an authentic way - for someone so accomplished.

Yes, I agree with you about Federer being too focused on money, Djokovic being too desperate to be loved and that Rafa is more humble, down to earth, chill and a better person than the other 2. One of your best posts.

 

[Moxie]

Well, maybe I'll explain first by what I don't like about Roger and Novak. For Roger, he kind of represents the illusion of a kind of benign economic elitism - Rolex, Swiss money, etc. I think Roger is a nice guy and I like his general vibe, but I don't like the "Euro-elitism." For Novak, he just has a kind of grating quality - tries too hard to be liked, to be funny, etc, and I still have memories of the shirt tearing (On the other hand, I like the fact that he's into woohoo stuff, and I feel like he can be very articulate).

Rafa has a more salt-of-the-earth vibe - a boy from the islands. I also really enjoy his shrug, and when he gets a bit feisty with the press. He just seems like a chill dude - and I like his combo of chillness and intensity. He's also amazingly humble - and I think in an authentic way - for someone so accomplished.

Very interesting, and does fit with your general POV. I appreciate that you buy the Nadal humility. Not all Federer fans did. I get why, way back in the day, some non-fans got tired of him saying that he'd have to be at his best to play x-random player (especially on clay,) when it looked like a done deal, (and eventually was,) but I think you can see now how that attitude has served him, particularly as he's aged. I told you that quote from Uncle Toni, about making it about the work, and not about the talent, and I think that's how you get past the hump when you're not just automatically demolishing everyone in front of you. You don't get petulant, you just go back to work.

As to your last bit: boy from the islands...combo of chillness and intensity: since this is the fan thread, I can say this, but I think this is where deciding to keep him with Uncle Toni and on Mallorca, rather than going to the Federation to train in Barcelona really served him. His uncle knew he had the intensity, the focus, and the talent. But Toni (and the family) was committed to keeping Rafa's feet on the ground. It's hard to know if the Federation would have really understood and fostered his strengths, while at the same time encouraging competition with his peers, which might have "spoiled" him, somewhat. Meaning making something of a monster of his competitiveness, which is oversized, by all accounts. He is very much two people: a rather sweet guy who loves his family and friends, and an elite athlete with a competitive bent bar none. Even his mother has said she doesn't recognize him when he walks on the court. If he didn't have Toni, (and the comfort of being surrounded by family) to have fostered both sides, I don't think he'd be the same player.

 

[Kieran]

Well, maybe I'll explain first by what I don't like about Roger and Novak. For Roger, he kind of represents the illusion of a kind of benign economic elitism - Rolex, Swiss money, etc. I think Roger is a nice guy and I like his general vibe, but I don't like the "Euro-elitism." For Novak, he just has a kind of grating quality - tries too hard to be liked, to be funny, etc, and I still have memories of the shirt tearing (On the other hand, I like the fact that he's into woohoo stuff, and I feel like he can be very articulate).

That’s a very precise way of describing them two. I always said that if Roger was chocolate, he’d lick himself to death. He mastered the humblebrag early on. But his laugh is almost like a giddy schoolgirl, and he’s obviously an incredibly generous bloke. And it’s true about Novak, he always had this insecurity about him, like a pesky little brother looking for attention, but he’s become more interesting as we know him more, and he’s always impressed me that he often flashes that confident young de Niro smile when he’s facing defeat in a big match - it’s not a smile that says he’s happy about the prospect of losing, but that he’s enjoying the challenge to turn things around.

Rafa has a more salt-of-the-earth vibe - a boy from the islands. I also really enjoy his shrug, and when he gets a bit feisty with the press. He just seems like a chill dude - and I like his combo of chillness and intensity. He's also amazingly humble - and I think in an authentic way - for someone so accomplished.

Yeah Rafa impressed me in that although I always felt he was humble, he’s maintained that humility to the end. He never lost the head. Rafa also genuinely seems to have that Kipling ability to face defeat and victory in more or less the same way. He takes his defeats well, he’s reasonable about them, and he takes his victories even better - they don’t turn his head. His home life is the huge factor, but also when living constantly with injuries that can potentially send him packing from a tournament, he appreciated the game in a different way. He literally played as if every match is his last.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

[El Dude]

That’s a very precise way of describing them two. I always said that if Roger was chocolate, he’d lick himself to death. He mastered the humblebrag early on. But his laugh is almost like a giddy schoolgirl, and he’s obviously an incredibly generous bloke. And it’s true about Novak, he always had this insecurity about him, like a pesky little brother looking for attention, but he’s become more interesting as we know him more, and he’s always impressed me that he often flashes that confident young de Niro smile when he’s facing defeat in a big match - it’s not a smile that says he’s happy about the prospect of losing, but that he’s enjoying the challenge to turn things around.

Yes, this is all well said. Even if a person doesn't like or agree with Novak's eccentric views, at least they're interesting. And agree on Roger (funny about the chocolate).

Yeah Rafa impressed me in that although I always felt he was humble, he’s maintained that humility to the end. He never lost the head. Rafa also genuinely seems to have that Kipling ability to face defeat and victory in more or less the same way. He takes his defeats well, he’s reasonable about them, and he takes his victories even better - they don’t turn his head. His home life is the huge factor, but also when living constantly with injuries that can potentially send him packing from a tournament, he appreciated the game in a different way. He literally played as if every match is his last.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

I'll always remember that final challenge in the 2017 AO final, when he sort of shrugged - like he knew it was over, but he thought, "might as well!" There was acceptance, even a quality of humor.

Anyhow, as Moxie has often said, these three will forever be linked - and in a way, really are a "collective GOAT" - sort of like a Hindu god that has three faces and aspects, but is one over-deity.

I also think in terms of how they impacted each other psychologically. Roger reigned first, and was so dominant and even maybe a bit over-confident. Rafa's competitive fire was stoked by being second fiddle for a few years, and Novak was like the "third son." Actually, this analogy might work: Roger was the heir to the throne and reigned for a time; Rafa was the second son who forged his own path, and eventually ended up with his own unique empire that was equally impressive as his "older brother's," but with its own qualities. Novak as the third son, almost forgotten for a few years and in the shadows of his great older brothers. But it is almost like he underwent secret, occult training, and emerged in 2011 as at least their equals.

So different qualities of greatness that are both impossible to separate, but also to compare in a one-to-one manner. Ultimately no statistical formula will ever fully encapsulate that.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, this is all well said. Even if a person doesn't like or agree with Novak's eccentric views, at least they're interesting. And agree on Roger (funny about the chocolate).

I'll always remember that final challenge in the 2017 AO final, when he sort of shrugged - like he knew it was over, but he thought, "might as well!" There was acceptance, even a quality of humor.

Anyhow, as Moxie has often said, these three will forever be linked - and in a way, really are a "collective GOAT" - sort of like a Hindu god that has three faces and aspects, but is one over-deity.

I also think in terms of how they impacted each other psychologically. Roger reigned first, and was so dominant and even maybe a bit over-confident. Rafa's competitive fire was stoked by being second fiddle for a few years, and Novak was like the "third son." Actually, this analogy might work: Roger was the heir to the throne and reigned for a time; Rafa was the second son who forged his own path, and eventually ended up with his own unique empire that was equally impressive as his "older brother's," but with its own qualities. Novak as the third son, almost forgotten for a few years and in the shadows of his great older brothers. But it is almost like he underwent secret, occult training, and emerged in 2011 as at least their equals.

So different qualities of greatness that are both impossible to separate, but also to compare in a one-to-one manner. Ultimately no statistical formula will ever fully encapsulate that.

Great stuff! I think they’re more or less equals and the differences between them are more about them having different opportunities…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Here's something for those who brought up Sharapova recently

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Here's something for those who brought up Sharapova recently

Please did you have to bring up that video of Sharapova of all people AP "The Cow On Ice"

 

[Nadalfan2013]

The trophy this year:

 

[the AntiPusher]

Please did you have to bring up that video of Sharapova of all people AP "The Cow On Ice"

Hey we all need a throw back that will make Us know Yes we did have to suffer with that heifer of a tennis player.

 

[Jelenafan]

Sigh…NGL, going to miss this:

 

[Kieran]

Nice words of appreciation for Rafa from Djoker:

Novak Djokovic says hearing long-time rival Rafael Nadal announce he intends to retire in 2024 has made him question how long he too will continue playing.

 

[Moxie]

Nice words of appreciation for Rafa from Djoker:

Novak Djokovic says hearing long-time rival Rafael Nadal announce he intends to retire in 2024 has made him question how long he too will continue playing.

It's interesting that hearing this from Rafa brings him up short. It's what happened to Rafa when Roger retired. The mortality of your athletic career stares you in the face of the one who came just before you.

 

[rafanoy1992]

My favorite Rafael Nadal stat of all-time:

Rafael Nadal has won 14 Roland Garros singles titles (most by a man or woman in a single slam in tennis history), in all of those 14 titles, NONE of them went to a fifth set!

Let's look at the other records:

Djokovic at AO: 10 titles; two of them went to a 5th set
Borg at RG: 6 titles; one of them went to a 5th set
Federer at Wimbledon: 8 titles; two of them went to a fifth set (just considering wins not losses)
Djokovic at Wimbledon: 7 titles; two of them went to a fifth set
Sampras at Wimbledon: 7 titles; one of them went to a fifth set

Basically, Nadal won an insane amount of Roland Garros titles and nobody was able to take two sets off from him any in those 14 finals, absurd!

One more thing:

7 three-set wins (4 of those straight-set wins were AFTER he turned 31 years old, crazy!)
7 four-set wins

Perfectly balance!

 

[Kieran]

It's interesting that hearing this from Rafa brings him up short. It's what happened to Rafa when Roger retired. The mortality of your athletic career stares you in the face of the one who came just before you.

Yeah that’s true, he was okay when Roger went. I don’t remember him being overly moved. I suppose it’s true, you define yourself by the one you chase, or the one you’re most entangled with..

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

My favorite Rafael Nadal stat of all-time:

Rafael Nadal has won 14 Roland Garros singles titles (most by a man or woman in a single slam in tennis history), in all of those 14 titles, NONE of them went to a fifth set!

Let's look at the other records:

Djokovic at AO: 10 titles; two of them went to a 5th set
Borg at RG: 6 titles; one of them went to a 5th set
Federer at Wimbledon: 8 titles; two of them went to a fifth set (just considering wins not losses)
Djokovic at Wimbledon: 7 titles; two of them went to a fifth set
Sampras at Wimbledon: 7 titles; one of them went to a fifth set

Basically, Nadal won an insane amount of Roland Garros titles and nobody was able to take two sets off from him any in those 14 finals, absurd!

One more thing:

7 three-set wins (4 of those straight-set wins were AFTER he turned 31 years old, crazy!)
7 four-set wins

Perfectly balance!

Great to see you posting Rafanoy and thanks for outstanding stats for Rafa at Roland Garros