NA Hard Season - General Discussion

[Moxie]

Novak still was weak to finish 2010 but helping Serbia win Davis Cup seemed to inspire him and obviously he figured out his fitness issues (that was probably the biggest thing, moreso than Davis Cup).

And you've complained multiple times that Roger and Djokovic have had periods of no competition while poor Walphy has had it tough all the time. Pretty laughable when you consider 2010 as well as 2017-2018. No competition = a gift, right?

I don't think you get to call Federer and Djokovic "no competition." You love to talk about things in black and white, but just because they weren't at their best, they don't drop off the tennis planet and become rookies.

 

[DarthFed]

I don't think you get to call Federer and Djokovic "no competition." You love to talk about things in black and white, but just because they weren't at their best, they don't drop off the tennis planet and become rookies.

Djokovic had a better year in 2007 than 2010. Federer after winning an AO that Nadal crashed out early in, had a much worse year in 2010 than Nadal had from 2005-2007. So if 2004-2007 was no competition as you've said before, then clearly 2010 was even worse.

And what about 2017-2018 when Rafa's main issue has been a part-time 35/36 year old? You really going to say that's tougher than Roger had it in his prime?

 

[Moxie]

Djokovic had a better year in 2007 than 2010. Federer after winning an AO that Nadal crashed out early in, had a much worse year in 2010 than Nadal had from 2005-2007. So if 2004-2007 was no competition as you've said before, then clearly 2010 was even worse.

And what about 2017-2018 when Rafa's main issue has been a part-time 35/36 year old? You really going to say that's tougher than Roger had it in his prime?

You and I have both said that 2017 especially and yes this year, too, were a bit of a gift to Rafa and Roger because of so many players being injured...not even participating is by definition not being competition. Which is different.

In any case, we've gone off on a tangent just to debate a fine point of who you'd favor at the USO. I don't see the point of rehashing the past 8-14 years.

 

[DarthFed]

You and I have both said that 2017 especially and yes this year, too, were a bit of a gift to Rafa and Roger because of so many players being injured...not even participating is by definition not being competition. Which is different.

In any case, we've gone off on a tangent just to debate a fine point of who you'd favor at the USO. I don't see the point of rehashing the past 8-14 years.

I agree we got off tangent as you got a little defensive for me saying Djokovic would be favored over Nadal if they meet

 

[Moxie]

I agree we got off tangent as you got a little defensive for me saying Djokovic would be favored over Nadal if they meet

We got off on a tangent because when I pointed out Nadal's 2-1 H2H advantage over Djokovic at the USO (and all in finals,) you had to figure out some way to make 2<1.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

2010 USO not so much, he looked bad that whole tournament but Roger outslopped him in that semi. The stats of that match were pretty atrocious if I remember correctly.

38-66(35 of the FH side) UFE
62-52%(amongst Federers top 10 lowest iirc at GS level) Serving percentage

 

[DarthFed]

We got off on a tangent because when I pointed out Nadal's 2-1 H2H advantage over Djokovic at the USO (and all in finals,) you had to figure out some way to make 2<1.

The head to head at Wimbledon was 1-0 before 2011 and overall 2-0 on grass as well. Since 2011 Djokovic is 13-2 vs Nadal off clay and those losses came in a 3 week span with Rafa playing out of his mind on HC and Djokovic in a major rut after barely losing RG semi. Again if you want to hang your hat on 2010 match go right ahead.

 

[DarthFed]

38-66(35 of the FH side) UFE
62-52%(amongst Federers top 10 lowest iirc at GS level) Serving percentage

And didn't both have less winners than errors. Certainly Roger did. It was a terrible match, really appalling from Roger especially since Djoker didn't have any high standards at that time.

They both played way better in the 2011 AO semi. Roger lost in straights and I remember thinking that if he played the same way in the 2010 USO semi he'd have won that match in straights.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

And didn't both have less winners than errors. Certainly Roger did. It was a terrible match, really appalling from Roger especially since Djoker didn't have any high standards at that time.

I couldn't get the exact stats for winners but both had negative winner-UFE ratio(djokovic less negative than Federer from what I can recall.)

They both played way better in the 2011 AO semi. Roger lost in straights and I remember thinking that if he played the same way in the 2010 USO semi he'd have won that match in straights.

I haven't seen that match live.
But the stats are somewhat similar ,
Novak 29-35 Winner-UFE(5/14 on BPs)
Federer 35-44 Winner-UFE(3/10 on BPs)

 

[monfed]

dull has become faker's bitch since 2011 off-clay.

 

[Moxie]

The head to head at Wimbledon was 1-0 before 2011 and overall 2-0 on grass as well. Since 2011 Djokovic is 13-2 vs Nadal off clay and those losses came in a 3 week span with Rafa playing out of his mind on HC and Djokovic in a major rut after barely losing RG semi. Again if you want to hang your hat on 2010 match go right ahead.

That one and the 2013 one. You really can't make a big complaint about ND's form in 2013. He did get "Player of the Year," IIRC. Nadal just beat him at USO. Even you have been saying that you're still waiting to see if Djokovic gets back to full form. I only questioned your giving him the slight edge over Rafa, but you're within your rights. It's just a prediction.

 

[Moxie]

dull has become faker's bitch since 2011 off-clay.

If you don't count that pesky 2013 USO final win over him.

 

[DarthFed]

That one and the 2013 one. You really can't make a big complaint about ND's form in 2013. He did get "Player of the Year," IIRC. Nadal just beat him at USO. Even you have been saying that you're still waiting to see if Djokovic gets back to full form. I only questioned your giving him the slight edge over Rafa, but you're within your rights. It's just a prediction.

What do you mean "that one and the 2013 one? Nadal narrowly beat him at Montreal and then beat him at USO. Those are the only wins off clay he's had over Djokovic in 7 years.

And Novak was pretty bad after RG until Fall. Obviously Wimbledon and USO finals were awful performances though I'm sure you'll find a way to disagree. I don't think Djoker won a tournament from Monte Carlo until Beijing that year.

 

[Moxie]

What do you mean "that one and the 2013 one? Nadal narrowly beat him at Montreal and then beat him at USO. Those are the only wins off clay he's had over Djokovic in 7 years.

And Novak was pretty bad after RG until Fall. Obviously Wimbledon and USO finals were awful performances though I'm sure you'll find a way to disagree. I don't think Djoker won a tournament from Monte Carlo until Beijing that year.

I was responding to your point of "if I wanted to hang my hat on the 2010 win." I said, "That one, and the 2013 one." You can say that Novak was "pretty bad," but he was in the finals at Wimbledon and USO. You're really just grading on a curve because he lost to Nadal twice and Murray at W, and you don't like them. By a dispassionate definition, that's not "pretty bad." It's a lot of 2nd best, yes. So if you want to use that as an excuse to diminish Nadal beating him at USO that year, knock yourself out. But don't tell me I'm 'finding a way' to disagree. It doesn't take a lot of finding. Djokovic wasn't "poor" in 2013. As I mentioned, he got named "Player of the Year," however debatable. And Nadal flat beat him at the USO. So if you give this version of Djokovic more credence than the one that year, that's your right. But I thought you have said he's got some ways to go. Whereas Nadal is on demonstrably better form, Wimbledon and the closed roof not withstanding. I'm not going to say that that loss at W this year didn't have a lot to do with Djokovic being in Nadal's head. But Djokovic has only just finally put his head above water. I think we still have to see how he does.

 

[monfed]

If you don't count that pesky 2013 USO final win over him.

not only pesky but annoying as fuck

 

[Moxie]

not only pesky but annoying as fuck

THIS is the highlight of my day.

(Though that might tell you how my day has gone.)

 

[monfed]

THIS is the highlight of my day.

(Though that might tell you how my day has gone.)

dulltards enjoy others pain much like dull

 

[Moxie]

dulltards enjoy others pain much like dull

And you don't enjoy the pain of Nadal fans? The 2013 USO win over Djokovic was sweet for us Rafa fans, I won't deny that. It's not gloating to enjoy a win.

Most fans around here actually appreciate that others have preferences, and we get it. We ride the ups and downs a bit together. You, however are one-way traffic. Your thudding remarks make very little sense and are really only trolling.

 

[monfed]

And you don't enjoy the pain of Nadal fans? The 2013 USO win over Djokovic was sweet for us Rafa fans, I won't deny that. It's not gloating to enjoy a win.

Most fans around here actually appreciate that others have preferences, and we get it. We ride the ups and downs a bit together. You, however are one-way traffic. Your thudding remarks make very little sense and are really only trolling.

dulltard and dull's pain is like ice cream. What do you want me to do, not enjoy it? I'm just a man for god sakes.

 

[Moxie]

dulltard and dull's pain is like ice cream. What do you want me to do, not enjoy it? I'm just a man for god sakes.

You're not a man, you're a troll. You've never met a contradiction that you couldn't counter with idiocy. And now ice cream.