Monte Carlo Rolex Masters 2017, Monaco, ATP Masters 1000

[Front242]

I've praised his volleys, overheads and down the line banana forehands many times but, yes, in terms of gamesmanship, unheard of stalling, toweling off after aces and grumpy crooked mouth look on his face all the time in matches and walking like he thinks he'a a 300lb bodybuilder, I think he's a complete pr1ck of the highest order and second to none on tour of all time. Having the nerve to ban an umpire just shows not only what a self righteous pr1ck he is, but also that the ATP give him special treatment. Vomit inducing. No player should be allowed ban a good umpire for actually doing his job properly unlike most who are too scared to give out time and point violations. He and his self serving uncle wanted the ATP to make a 2 year ranking just for him and clay WTF just cos he's crap at indoor tennis. You couldn't make this up if you tried.

The fact that many of his fans are such sore losers just makes me despise him more but that's actually their fault rather than his. It's got nothing to do with Federer actually as I blame Roger's stubbornness for losing to him as often as he did. Had he improved that backhand years ago, things would be a lot different.

 

[Kieran]

When he gets time to line up his shots on clay, he can hit a huge ball. The way to deal with Soderling is to take time away from him, which Rafa is not good at doing.

The H2H is 6-2 to Rafa, and 4-1 on clay, so I think he's been fairly successful at doing it.

And I kinda resent Fedfans saying we give no credit to Siderling. I've always come out in favour of Soderling, because he was one of the few players of that Federer generation who displayed the spite and contrariness to try upset a top player. And yes, I've always given him credit for that match too - he saw his chance, he played great, and he won. I've said this since 2009. I'm also honest enough to admit what's obvious: Rafa's knees were heading towards a much needed rest that year. One he took straight after Paris. I blame him for overplaying on clay when he knew this. He should never have played Madrid that year, and many other years beside...

 

[Kieran]

I've praised his volleys, overheads and down the line banana forehands many times but, yes, in terms of gamesmanship, unheard of stalling, toweling off after aces and grumpy crooked mouth look on his face all the time in matches and walking like he thinks he'a a 300lb bodybuilder, I think he's a complete pr1ck of the highest order and second to none on tour of all time. Having the nerve to ban an umpire just shows not only what a self righteous pr1ck he is, but also that the ATP give him special treatment. Vomit inducing. No player should be allowed ban a good umpire for actually doing his job properly unlike most who are too scared to give out time and point violations. He and his self serving uncle wanted the ATP to make a 2 year ranking just for him and clay WTF just cos he's crap at indoor tennis. You couldn't make this up if you tried.

The fact that many of his fans are such sore losers just makes me despise him more but that's actually their fault rather than his. It's got nothing to do with Federer actually as I blame Roger's stubbornness for losing to him as often as he did. Had he improved that backhand years ago, things would be a lot different.

Don't worry brother, we noticed that you despise him - and we love the fact that you do...

 

[El Dude]

Kieran, I grow tired of accusations of me attacking Rafa ("silly propaganda strike against Rafa"). That isn't the case at all, and you know it. My "propaganda strike" was against his more biased fans, not against Rafa.

But yeah, Fed fans can be silly and biased, too. I wasn't following tennis closely in 2008, so can't comment about the mono. The record clearly shows that Roger had begun to slip a year before, in 2007, when he was still quite dominant but down a notch from 2006, with more upsets to lesser players. 2008 was a further slide. From what I understand, I do think the mono impacted his performance at the AO, but not for the rest of the year. That said, he did seem to improve a bit in 2009, although not enough to make me think that mono was a huge factor in 2008; if it was, the gap between 2008 and 2009 would have been larger.

Also, Roger's slide from his absolute peak in 2006 to a plateau level from about 2010-12 was not only due to the maturation of Rafa and Novak. He started losing more regularly to lesser players. So 2008 was simply part of a trajectory of decline for Roger.

2013, on the other hand, was clearly due to injury. He really struggled that year, and then improved in 2014 to a level, if not quite a return to 2012, was still much higher than 2013. So I'm not sure why you think anyone is making excuses for him.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, I grow tired of accusations of me attacking Rafa ("silly propaganda strike against Rafa"). That isn't the case at all, and you know it. My "propaganda strike" was against his more biased fans, not against Rafa.

But yeah, Fed fans can be silly and biased, too. I wasn't following tennis closely in 2008, so can't comment about the mono. The record clearly shows that Roger had begun to slip a year before, in 2007, when he was still quite dominant but down a notch from 2006, with more upsets to lesser players. 2008 was a further slide. From what I understand, I do think the mono impacted his performance at the AO, but not for the rest of the year. That said, he did seem to improve a bit in 2009, although not enough to make me think that mono was a huge factor in 2008; if it was, the gap between 2008 and 2009 would have been larger.

Also, Roger's slide from his absolute peak in 2006 to a plateau level from about 2010-12 was not only due to the maturation of Rafa and Novak. He started losing more regularly to lesser players. So 2008 was simply part of a trajectory of decline for Roger.

2013, on the other hand, was clearly due to injury. He really struggled that year, and then improved in 2014 to a level, if not quite a return to 2012, was still much higher than 2013. So I'm not sure why you think anyone is making excuses for him.

I'm pointing out that Fedfans are saying exactly the same thing about Roger and his mono and back as Rafa fans have said about Rafas knees - but you's claim for yourselves the luxury of accusing us of making excuses, while we hear it all the time that his results in 2008 Oz are down to mono. Really? Because I saw nothing wrong with him there.

And his back in 2013? Nothing wrong with him there, from what I seen.

His back in 2016? What, again with the back? I watched him play 2 five setters in 3 days, against men almost ten years younger. Nah, nothing wrong with the back there.

You see how this thread goes?

And I agree with AP - when Rafa finally wins a single danged tourney after a whole year, this yard of nonsense gets trawled up... :nono

 

[Front242]

Kieran, I grow tired of accusations of me attacking Rafa ("silly propaganda strike against Rafa"). That isn't the case at all, and you know it. My "propaganda strike" was against his more biased fans, not against Rafa.

But yeah, Fed fans can be silly and biased, too. I wasn't following tennis closely in 2008, so can't comment about the mono. The record clearly shows that Roger had begun to slip a year before, in 2007, when he was still quite dominant but down a notch from 2006, with more upsets to lesser players. 2008 was a further slide. From what I understand, I do think the mono impacted his performance at the AO, but not for the rest of the year. That said, he did seem to improve a bit in 2009, although not enough to make me think that mono was a huge factor in 2008; if it was, the gap between 2008 and 2009 would have been larger.

Also, Roger's slide from his absolute peak in 2006 to a plateau level from about 2010-12 was not only due to the maturation of Rafa and Novak. He started losing more regularly to lesser players. So 2008 was simply part of a trajectory of decline for Roger.

2013, on the other hand, was clearly due to injury. He really struggled that year, and then improved in 2014 to a level, if not quite a return to 2012, was still much higher than 2013. So I'm not sure why you think anyone is making excuses for him.

I'm pointing out that Fedfans are saying exactly the same thing about Roger and his mono and back as Rafa fans have said about Rafas knees - but you's claim for yourselves the luxury of accusing us of making excuses, while we hear it all the time that his results in 2008 Oz are down to mono. Really? Because I saw nothing wrong with him there.

And his back in 2013? Nothing wrong with him there, from what I seen.

His back in 2016? What, again with the back? I watched him play 2 five setters in 3 days, against men almost ten years younger. Nah, nothing wrong with the back there.

You see how this thread goes?

And I agree with AP - when Rafa finally wins a single danged tourney after a whole year, this yard of nonsense gets trawled up... :nono

It was his knee in 2016 not his back. He clearly plain as day for all to see on YouTube fell flat on his face out of nowhere against Raonic at Wimbledon and wasn't even running for a ball cos he knee just went from under him. Hardly normal.

 

[El Dude]

Kieran, relax my friend, and quit assuming so much. I'm not making excuses for Roger--you have a funny way of skewing what I'm saying. For instance, AO 2008. Look how you teased out one innocuous remark and ignored the rest. Just silliness. You're making arguments where they aren't, at least not from me. I said mono may have been a factor at the AO...from what I heard, he couldn't practice before hand and went in rusty and weak. But who cares? Maybe it wasn't a huge factor. Either way, he wasn't at his best. It happens. But I'm not making excuses for him.

As for 2013, evidently you didn't watch him at all that year. Dude, look at his record. Look at who he lost to. I'm not saying it was only his back, but probably a variety of factors that led to a truly struggling player. And then a combination of better health, a new racket, and an adjusted game and he improved in 2014. Of course you like to not-so-stealthily make your implications that steroids were a factor, but would never suggest any such thing with Rafa. So who is the hypocrit, really?

And 2016? Are you really saying he didn't have injury problems? He missed two-thirds of the year! And yeah, it was his knee...what's with your obsession with his back? You're flailing around.

I'm spent. It was fun for a bit, but this round became quite tedious, mainly because I've had to waste so much time correcting your impressions of what I actually said. Let's at least try to read what the other actually writes, OK?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Kieran, I grow tired of accusations of me attacking Rafa ("silly propaganda strike against Rafa"). That isn't the case at all, and you know it. My "propaganda strike" was against his more biased fans, not against Rafa.

But yeah, Fed fans can be silly and biased, too. I wasn't following tennis closely in 2008, so can't comment about the mono. The record clearly shows that Roger had begun to slip a year before, in 2007, when he was still quite dominant but down a notch from 2006, with more upsets to lesser players. 2008 was a further slide. From what I understand, I do think the mono impacted his performance at the AO, but not for the rest of the year. That said, he did seem to improve a bit in 2009, although not enough to make me think that mono was a huge factor in 2008; if it was, the gap between 2008 and 2009 would have been larger.

Also, Roger's slide from his absolute peak in 2006 to a plateau level from about 2010-12 was not only due to the maturation of Rafa and Novak. He started losing more regularly to lesser players. So 2008 was simply part of a trajectory of decline for Roger.

2013, on the other hand, was clearly due to injury. He really struggled that year, and then improved in 2014 to a level, if not quite a return to 2012, was still much higher than 2013. So I'm not sure why you think anyone is making excuses for him.

I'm pointing out that Fedfans are saying exactly the same thing about Roger and his mono and back as Rafa fans have said about Rafas knees - but you's claim for yourselves the luxury of accusing us of making excuses, while we hear it all the time that his results in 2008 Oz are down to mono. Really? Because I saw nothing wrong with him there.

And his back in 2013? Nothing wrong with him there, from what I seen.

His back in 2016? What, again with the back? I watched him play 2 five setters in 3 days, against men almost ten years younger. Nah, nothing wrong with the back there.

You see how this thread goes?

And I agree with AP - when Rafa finally wins a single danged tourney after a whole year, this yard of nonsense gets trawled up... :nono

It was his knee in 2016 not his back. He clearly plain as day for all to see on YouTube fell flat on his face out of nowhere against Raonic at Wimbledon and wasn't even running for a ball cos he knee just went from under him. Hardly normal.

Soderling had some success a few years ago. Whereas Berdych has been a consistent top ten player who has defeated the Beloved one at Wimbledon in 2010. Yet Berdych is treated like a bald headed stepchild . Soderling is treated like some great legend, almost biblical like David who slew Goliath.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, relax my friend, and quit assuming so much. I'm not making excuses for Roger--you have a funny way of skewing what I'm saying. For instance, AO 2008. Look how you teased out one innocuous remark and ignored the rest. Just silliness. You're making arguments where they aren't, at least not from me. I said mono may have been a factor at the AO...from what I heard, he couldn't practice before hand and went in rusty and weak. But who cares? Maybe it wasn't a huge factor. Either way, he wasn't at his best. It happens. But I'm not making excuses for him.

So let me scan this one, for ya, bro: mono wasn't a factor, but it caused him to go in "rusty and weak" and without practice - but otherwise he was fine, right? It's certainly not an excuse for him losing, though the inference is clear: if he could practice, and he wasn't "rusty and weak", who knows, eh? Because Roger couldn't lose against Novak in Oz when healthy, eh?

As for 2013, evidently you didn't watch him at all that year. Dude, look at his record. Look at who he lost to. I'm not saying it was only his back, but probably a variety of factors that led to a truly struggling player.

And of course, 32 year old players aren't expected to slip to as low as (briefly) #8 in the world. It has to be (even partly) the back, correct? It brings to mind something we were told recently, as Rafa fans:

Rafa fans, you can say it -- don't be scared: Rafa does sometimes lose when he's fully healthy. Yes, he does. Really. It is OK, he's still awesome and so are you.

Change the word "Rafa" to "Roger" and you get the gist.

And then a combination of better health, a new racket, and an adjusted game and he improved in 2014. Of course you like to not-so-stealthily make your implications that steroids were a factor, but would never suggest any such thing with Rafa. So who is the hypocrit, really?

You really don't wanna go there bro, unless you can show me a 35 year old athlete who similarly bounced back to their finest after a long break (no rust this time, eh?), "as if that's something 35 year old athletes simply do."

As for calling me a hypocrite, that's both cheap and ill-informed, given that I'm one of the few posters here to have forwarded the line that all the top players might be equally suspect, and with so many records being obliterated so handily (including all the clay ones), an outside agency should be called in to investigate what's going on, because if it occurred in any other sport, there'd not only be raised eyebrows, but actual scepticism and disbelief.

And 2016? Are you really saying he didn't have injury problems? He missed two-thirds of the year! And yeah, it was his knee...what's with your obsession with his back? You're flailing around.

I saw no evidence of injury. It might be that he needed time out to counter the obvious effects of ageing.

Don't worry, we've heard that level of sh1te against Rafa, not from you, but from one of our more rabid posters spoken-out-loud fantasies. :cover

What you're missing here is that you think that what we read by the likes of Front and others is one thing, and what you're saying is another, but it isn't really. By constantly ressurrecting this to prove your point, you're actually giving fuel to the less savoury sorts who can't wait to gloat over Rafa's history of injuries and attack his fans. And when I'm holding a mirror to this nonsense ("I saw no evidence of mono...I saw no evidence of bad back...etc"), you're not noticing what I'm doing.

For the record, and I'll repeat it for the gazillionth time in my life, Rafa has lost matches when fit - obviously. But by perpetuating the idea that Rafa fans are some sub-intelligent species of belligerent and dishonest hypocrites who rush to clutch his knees every time he loses, you're only feeding the trolls, although I fully accept that your intentions lie elsewhere...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Kieran, relax my friend, and quit assuming so much. I'm not making excuses for Roger--you have a funny way of skewing what I'm saying. For instance, AO 2008. Look how you teased out one innocuous remark and ignored the rest. Just silliness. You're making arguments where they aren't, at least not from me. I said mono may have been a factor at the AO...from what I heard, he couldn't practice before hand and went in rusty and weak. But who cares? Maybe it wasn't a huge factor. Either way, he wasn't at his best. It happens. But I'm not making excuses for him.

So let me scan this one, for ya, bro: mono wasn't a factor, but it caused him to go in "rusty and weak" and without practice - but otherwise he was fine, right? It's certainly not an excuse for him losing, though the inference is clear: if he could practice, and he wasn't "rusty and weak", who knows, eh? Because Roger couldn't lose against Novak in Oz when healthy, eh?

As for 2013, evidently you didn't watch him at all that year. Dude, look at his record. Look at who he lost to. I'm not saying it was only his back, but probably a variety of factors that led to a truly struggling player.

And of course, 32 year old players aren't expected to slip to as low as (briefly) #8 in the world. It has to be (even partly) the back, correct? It brings to mind something we were told recently, as Rafa fans:

Rafa fans, you can say it -- don't be scared: Rafa does sometimes lose when he's fully healthy. Yes, he does. Really. It is OK, he's still awesome and so are you.

Change the word "Rafa" to "Roger" and you get the gist.

And then a combination of better health, a new racket, and an adjusted game and he improved in 2014. Of course you like to not-so-stealthily make your implications that steroids were a factor, but would never suggest any such thing with Rafa. So who is the hypocrit, really?

You really don't wanna go there bro, unless you can show me a 35 year old athlete who similarly bounced back to their finest after a long break (no rust this time, eh?), "as if that's something 35 year old athletes simply do."

As for calling me a hypocrite, that's both cheap and ill-informed, given that I'm one of the few posters here to have forwarded the line that all the top players might be equally suspect, and with so many records being obliterated so handily (including all the clay ones), an outside agency should be called in to investigate what's going on, because if it occurred in any other sport, there'd not only be raised eyebrows, but actual scepticism and disbelief.

And 2016? Are you really saying he didn't have injury problems? He missed two-thirds of the year! And yeah, it was his knee...what's with your obsession with his back? You're flailing around.

I saw no evidence of injury. It might be that he needed time out to counter the obvious effects of ageing.

Don't worry, we've heard that level of sh1te against Rafa, not from you, but from one of our more rabid posters spoken-out-loud fantasies. :cover

What you're missing here is that you think that what we read by the likes of Front and others is one thing, and what you're saying is another, but it isn't really. By constantly ressurrecting this to prove your point, you're actually giving fuel to the less savoury sorts who can't wait to gloat over Rafa's history of injuries and attack his fans. And when I'm holding a mirror to this nonsense ("I saw no evidence of mono...I saw no evidence of bad back...etc"), you're not noticing what I'm doing.

For the record, and I'll repeat it for the gazillionth time in my life, Rafa has lost matches when fit - obviously. But by perpetuating the idea that Rafa fans are some sub-intelligent species of belligerent and dishonest hypocrites who rush to clutch his knees every time he loses, you're only feeding the trolls, although I fully accept that your intentions lie elsewhere...

The mistake is trying to reply with logic and facts to a poster like Front who wants no part of that.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

This is getting rather tedious, and seems wildly off-topic. The whole thing started because someone commented on the fact that Rafa didn't face so many top players during his run to the MC title.

I think everyone ought to be able to agree that this is true, but also that this takes absolutely nothing away from his amazing achievement of winning 10 titles at this event. He can only beat the players in front of him, and it's not his fault that Murray, Djokovic and Stan all weren't up to the task.

One comment: Could people stop saying "Federer fans (always) do such and such", or "Nadal fans (always) do such and such" etc. This is inaccurate and will get people's backs up even if they are otherwise reasonable. Of course, some people may do this precisely because they do like to fan the flames, in which case it's best not to raise to the bait ...

Monte-Carlo is some time past by now, let's move on ...

 

[Front242]

That's some of the dumbest shit I've read here, AP as there's plenty of logic in my posts. Like other Nadal fans though, you get so caught up on hating on Federer fans you don't even read what we type.

Had to edit to say I love that your stupid cronies even liked that dumb post. Sad. Says it all really.

 

[Kieran]

This is getting rather tedious, and seems wildly off-topic. The whole thing started because someone commented on the fact that Rafa didn't face so many top players during his run to the MC title.

I think everyone ought to be able to agree that this is true, but also that this takes absolutely nothing away from his amazing achievement of winning 10 titles at this event. He can only beat the players in front of him, and it's not his fault that Murray, Djokovic and Stan all weren't up to the task.

One comment: Could people stop saying "Federer fans (always) do such and such", or "Nadal fans (always) do such and such" etc. This is inaccurate and will get people's backs up even if they are otherwise reasonable. Of course, some people may do this precisely because they do like to fan the flames, in which case it's best not to raise to the bait ...

Monte-Carlo is some time past by now, let's move on ...

We'll drag you kicking and screaming into a Fedal war yet, believe me! :snicker

 

[the AntiPusher]

That's some of the dumbest crap I've read here, AP as there's plenty of logic in my posts. Like other Nadal fans though, you get so caught up on hating on Federer fans you don't even read what we type.

Had to edit to say I love that your stupid cronies even liked that dumb post. Sad. Says it all really.

That's the problem..you have been the voice for some of the Fed fans. KS and Darth are Fed fans but I rarely see a post that they doesn't back up with facts or logic. There are a few others who had a some very good legitimate arguments. Then there is you. It annoys you that the sun shines on any of Nadal victories. Instead of laying dormant and keeping your big mouth shut, you rather pick at things about Nadal that you know a lot of folks maybe on the fence with him about. Then you began your rant and those who had some past issues about Rafa overcoming Roger during the past almost ten years jump on. "Yeah Front, I didn't like that Soderling didn't get his full due for someone finally getting past Rafa at RG "which opened the door for Roger plus an enormous choking by Haas. This alone has taken up two pages about Soderling. I honestly didn't know he left the tour but maybe was struggling at the challenger series level. This thread was supposed to be about MC. But before anyone come began to discuss Nadal's victory. You turned this into some Fed fans like yourself vs Rafa and his fans. Nah..I don't hate Fed fans, actually a lot I like and respect. Then there is you. Nuff Said.

 

[mrzz]

In fact it wasn´t Front who brought up the Soderling match. He posted the video after someone else cited it.

So this thread shifted from MC to who was more injured when lost a given match to who is the dumbest poster around. We are making it harder and harder to find it out.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Who is this screamer Rafa is playing against? Sharapova's long lost brother?

 

[Carol]

In fact it wasn´t Front who brought up the Soderling match. He posted the video after someone else cited it.

So this thread shifted from MC to who was more injured when lost a given match to who is the dumbest poster around. We are making it harder and harder to find it out.

And did you see why that poster cited it?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Who is this screamer Rafa is playing against? Sharapova's long lost brother?

Front

 

[El Dude]

Thank you, jeditribble and mrzz, for adding a bit of sanity. I'll be your padawan and step back from this .

 

[mrzz]

In fact it wasn´t Front who brought up the Soderling match. He posted the video after someone else cited it.

So this thread shifted from MC to who was more injured when lost a given match to who is the dumbest poster around. We are making it harder and harder to find it out.

And did you see why that poster cited it?

Yes, but I am trying not to relive it all again (one of the reasons I did not name the poster, and neither called no one the original sinner).