Monte Carlo Rolex Masters 2017, Monaco, ATP Masters 1000

[rafanoy1992]

I honestly don't know how a tennis fan could "hate" Rafa or Roger. It would be like a rock and roll fan "hating" John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix. These guys are iconic, incredible athletes.

Now I don't love Rafa's style of play, but I respect it for its effectiveness. I've said before, but I think you could make a good argument that Rafa, in his prime and on his favorite surface, is the hardest player to beat in tennis history. In fact, I think it goes beyond "making a good argument" to being almost incontestable.

I would agree with your statement, El Dude. And I am not saying this because I am a Nadal fan, but even players will agree with this statement.

The one thing about playing Nadal on Clay is that it is both physically and mentally demoralizing. What I mean by my statement is that a player could play his best tennis but still lose in three sets against Nadal.

The one specific match on top of my head that describe the above statement is Djokovic vs. Nadal in 2008 Roland Garros semifinals. Djokovic was playing good to great tennis coming into Roland Garros. He was very close to beating Nadal in the Hamburg semifinals just a month before RG. I thought the semifinal match will be 4 to 5 set match. But even all of that, Djokovic could not take a single set from Nadal that day. That match perfectly describes on how mentally and physically demoralizing to play Nadal on his beloved red clay. You could play your best tennis ever but still lose in straight sets.

Another example would be the 2010 RG Final against Soderling. The Swede did not play bad at all that day but he still could not break Nadal's serve that day.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Exactly, hearty congratulations to him. He was great that day though but shouldn't have played the same way next match and promptly lost as so often happens after a big upset. The fact (specially for AP who loves facts except when I type them of course) that Soderling made the RG final 2 straight years proves his victories were no fluke. It's no easy task to win a huge match and march all the way to the final.

Here's my two cents..no one said that you are not entitled to your opinion but yours is based on your biases which leads to a false competive banter. Most would assumed since there's a rejuvenated Federer you would be content but I see you forget how you felt when Roger's decline was beginning with no real solutions on the tennis horizons..However there was one poster who stated that he would be back to prominence (ref my post with the other Nadal hater herios). When I stated your big mouth, it was the God's honest truth. When your comments are just a consistent whining sequence then your posts loose any logic as I stated before. Now why it's so hard for others to ride the fence about refusing to censor you baffles me. You see things One way in essence it's really the other way. Wouldn't it be prudent of you to champion the victories Nadal has over Federer, doesn't it adds to the folklore of Federer..I will let you ponder that and if you are as intelligent as you have convinced yourself that you are, then your comprehension of this post should feed the asinine concepts that are currently controlling your mental anguish.

My comprehension of your post is this: you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is biased. Do you even realize what you're saying when you type it? You really mean to tell me, you, Kieran and Carol are not biased towards Nadal? :lolz::laydownlaughing Literally everything you've said here is EXACTLY the same with you Nadal fans. You all claim Nadal was injured in his biggest losses where we Federer fans even post you videos showing he was moving 100% fine and yet you all say the same about Federer that you noticed nothing wrong with him but of course you can't provide videos because then we'd see in the matches in 2013 such as Indian Wells and the clay losses to Delbonis and Brands where Roger was stiff and rigid and didn't move for tons of balls, leaving them fly past him instead. Sorry but another pointless, stupid post.

The only thing asinine (and it's not my concepts) is your posts like this which make no sense as you seem to think only I'm biased. I'm not btw as I already posted above that Stakhovsky beat Federer fair and square at Wimbledon so, really, it's just you miserable, sore loser Nadal sods here and elsewhere who are biased and asinine, to use your word as you have an excuse ready for all his biggest losses even when the rest of us can tell you these excuses are nonsense. And my posts don't lose any logic, you're just incapable of reading anything negative about Nadal like Kieran and Carol even when it's 100% truth. That's not any issue with me and my "logic" but you and your sore loser, Nadal buddies here and elsewhere.

Edited just to say that of course, by its very nature, being a fan of anyone means there will always be some bias but for you to word as if I'm biased and you and your Nadal buddies are not and always speak the truth is both delusional and laughably embarrassing to read and your bias is way more prominent than mine but you're too blind to see it. See excuses for Nadal chapters 1-65.

Front, I think you need to take a sabbatical from tennis. Give up the free weights, no one gonna notice if you miss a few weeks and can always trying "cycling " again to regain what you think you have lost. You strike as a person that may be missing something, I would suggest this. there's are an infomercial about old Lawerence Welk tv specials. The music seem light and simple and should fit in smoothly between your sensitive ears. This will give you an opportunity to reset and continue to keep things comfortable and simple for you. No need to waste your time watching Rafa waiting for something that may trigger your mental anguish again. Keep it simple, no Nadal and you will be as rejuvenated as Roger's bh for Wimbledon.

 

[Carol]

Carol, you are a MASSIVE fangirl - but wear it proudly! How can you possibly deny it?

Sorry but I can say the same about you, Front, MSAG (and what can I say about DarthFed lol) your passion and admiration for Federer is too much and you can't deny it and my problem is that all of you love to dismiss everything Rafa does (his game, his achievements , his personality) and then I try to defend him. Hey, you should be focused more on your idol before to critic to anyone else because it would have a lot to talk, he is very far to be perfect......popcorn

 

[Front242]

Here's my two cents..no one said that you are not entitled to your opinion but yours is based on your biases which leads to a false competive banter. Most would assumed since there's a rejuvenated Federer you would be content but I see you forget how you felt when Roger's decline was beginning with no real solutions on the tennis horizons..However there was one poster who stated that he would be back to prominence (ref my post with the other Nadal hater herios). When I stated your big mouth, it was the God's honest truth. When your comments are just a consistent whining sequence then your posts loose any logic as I stated before. Now why it's so hard for others to ride the fence about refusing to censor you baffles me. You see things One way in essence it's really the other way. Wouldn't it be prudent of you to champion the victories Nadal has over Federer, doesn't it adds to the folklore of Federer..I will let you ponder that and if you are as intelligent as you have convinced yourself that you are, then your comprehension of this post should feed the asinine concepts that are currently controlling your mental anguish.

My comprehension of your post is this: you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is biased. Do you even realize what you're saying when you type it? You really mean to tell me, you, Kieran and Carol are not biased towards Nadal? :lolz::laydownlaughing Literally everything you've said here is EXACTLY the same with you Nadal fans. You all claim Nadal was injured in his biggest losses where we Federer fans even post you videos showing he was moving 100% fine and yet you all say the same about Federer that you noticed nothing wrong with him but of course you can't provide videos because then we'd see in the matches in 2013 such as Indian Wells and the clay losses to Delbonis and Brands where Roger was stiff and rigid and didn't move for tons of balls, leaving them fly past him instead. Sorry but another pointless, stupid post.

The only thing asinine (and it's not my concepts) is your posts like this which make no sense as you seem to think only I'm biased. I'm not btw as I already posted above that Stakhovsky beat Federer fair and square at Wimbledon so, really, it's just you miserable, sore loser Nadal sods here and elsewhere who are biased and asinine, to use your word as you have an excuse ready for all his biggest losses even when the rest of us can tell you these excuses are nonsense. And my posts don't lose any logic, you're just incapable of reading anything negative about Nadal like Kieran and Carol even when it's 100% truth. That's not any issue with me and my "logic" but you and your sore loser, Nadal buddies here and elsewhere.

Edited just to say that of course, by its very nature, being a fan of anyone means there will always be some bias but for you to word as if I'm biased and you and your Nadal buddies are not and always speak the truth is both delusional and laughably embarrassing to read and your bias is way more prominent than mine but you're too blind to see it. See excuses for Nadal chapters 1-65.

Front, I think you need to take a sabbatical from tennis. Give up the free weights, no one gonna notice if you miss a few weeks and can always trying "cycling " again to regain what you think you have lost. You strike as a person that may be missing something, I would suggest this. there's are an infomercial about old Lawerence Welk tv specials. The music seem light and simple and should fit in smoothly between your sensitive ears. This will give you an opportunity to reset and continue to keep things comfortable and simple for you. No need to waste your time watching Rafa waiting for something that may trigger your mental anguish again. Keep it simple, no Nadal and you will be as rejuvenated as Roger's bh for Wimbledon.

Winners don't use drugs, AP, so there will be no "cycling". Seems to me you Nadal fans are the most sensitive bunch so I'd say stick with those tunes yourself. Nothing is "missing" by the way but curious to know if you like to offer your worldly advice to everyone or just me? All I could say is missing is common sense and reading comprehension skills of the most rabid Nadal fans here and elsewhere.

 

[the AntiPusher]

My comprehension of your post is this: you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is biased. Do you even realize what you're saying when you type it? You really mean to tell me, you, Kieran and Carol are not biased towards Nadal? :lolz::laydownlaughing Literally everything you've said here is EXACTLY the same with you Nadal fans. You all claim Nadal was injured in his biggest losses where we Federer fans even post you videos showing he was moving 100% fine and yet you all say the same about Federer that you noticed nothing wrong with him but of course you can't provide videos because then we'd see in the matches in 2013 such as Indian Wells and the clay losses to Delbonis and Brands where Roger was stiff and rigid and didn't move for tons of balls, leaving them fly past him instead. Sorry but another pointless, stupid post.

The only thing asinine (and it's not my concepts) is your posts like this which make no sense as you seem to think only I'm biased. I'm not btw as I already posted above that Stakhovsky beat Federer fair and square at Wimbledon so, really, it's just you miserable, sore loser Nadal sods here and elsewhere who are biased and asinine, to use your word as you have an excuse ready for all his biggest losses even when the rest of us can tell you these excuses are nonsense. And my posts don't lose any logic, you're just incapable of reading anything negative about Nadal like Kieran and Carol even when it's 100% truth. That's not any issue with me and my "logic" but you and your sore loser, Nadal buddies here and elsewhere.

Edited just to say that of course, by its very nature, being a fan of anyone means there will always be some bias but for you to word as if I'm biased and you and your Nadal buddies are not and always speak the truth is both delusional and laughably embarrassing to read and your bias is way more prominent than mine but you're too blind to see it. See excuses for Nadal chapters 1-65.

Front, I think you need to take a sabbatical from tennis. Give up the free weights, no one gonna notice if you miss a few weeks and can always trying "cycling " again to regain what you think you have lost. You strike as a person that may be missing something, I would suggest this. there's are an infomercial about old Lawerence Welk tv specials. The music seem light and simple and should fit in smoothly between your sensitive ears. This will give you an opportunity to reset and continue to keep things comfortable and simple for you. No need to waste your time watching Rafa waiting for something that may trigger your mental anguish again. Keep it simple, no Nadal and you will be as rejuvenated as Roger's bh for Wimbledon.

Winners don't use drugs, AP, so there will be no "cycling". Seems to me you Nadal fans are the most sensitive bunch so I'd say stick with those tunes yourself. Nothing is "missing" by the way but curious to know if you like to offer your worldly advice to everyone or just me? All I could say is missing is common sense and reading comprehension skills of the most rabid Nadal fans here and elsewhere.

Just you.. e.g. When Rafa wins.. Darth doesn't make these rabid posts with the useless subject content that yours does against Rafa. KS is a lot fairer but still doesn't post in the manner you do. Your post are trying to bait all the Nadal fans(since you have put us all together.

Again.. take a break.. move away from the keyboards as other like Kieran has told you. Listen to some simple music that you can comprehend or that will not ignite the foolish silly thoughts that currently dominate your logic. Fed, Goffin, Murray all say great things about Nadal and vice versa. Yet your entire plight on this board is not to talk tennis 100%. Rather its 80% Anti Nadal however in your unmitigated ignorance dare to keep implying that Nadal fans are too sensitive. This is my last post on this topic with you, typically when a person feel that they need to get the final word it shows historically periods of immaturity and insecurity.

 

[Front242]

Front, I think you need to take a sabbatical from tennis. Give up the free weights, no one gonna notice if you miss a few weeks and can always trying "cycling " again to regain what you think you have lost. You strike as a person that may be missing something, I would suggest this. there's are an infomercial about old Lawerence Welk tv specials. The music seem light and simple and should fit in smoothly between your sensitive ears. This will give you an opportunity to reset and continue to keep things comfortable and simple for you. No need to waste your time watching Rafa waiting for something that may trigger your mental anguish again. Keep it simple, no Nadal and you will be as rejuvenated as Roger's bh for Wimbledon.

Winners don't use drugs, AP, so there will be no "cycling". Seems to me you Nadal fans are the most sensitive bunch so I'd say stick with those tunes yourself. Nothing is "missing" by the way but curious to know if you like to offer your worldly advice to everyone or just me? All I could say is missing is common sense and reading comprehension skills of the most rabid Nadal fans here and elsewhere.

Just you.. e.g. When Rafa wins.. Darth doesn't make these rabid posts with the useless subject content that yours does against Rafa. KS is a lot fairer but still doesn't post in the manner you do. Your post are trying to bait all the Nadal fans(since you have put us all together.

Again.. take a break.. move away from the keyboards as other like Kieran has told you. Listen to some simple music that you can comprehend or that will not ignite the foolish silly thoughts that currently dominate your logic. Fed, Goffin, Murray all say great things about Nadal and vice versa. Yet your entire plight on this board is not to talk tennis 100%. Rather its 80% Anti Nadal however in your unmitigated ignorance dare to keep implying that Nadal fans are too sensitive. This is my last post on this topic with you, typically when a person feel that they need to get the final word it shows historically periods of immaturity and insecurity.

Most of my posts are about tennis which again shows the whole forum you don't read things properly. You're actually the one who has made this personal and everyone can see that. Pretty sad to say the least. Again, you just don't even read them properly. It was Carol who derailed this thread also which you haven't even acknowledged. All I did was merely post 1 single video in reply to Carol's post about Nadal's supposed injury against Soderling to show he was moving 100% fine which other posters such as El Dude agreed with. Your buddy Kieran then took it to new levels but of course naturally enough you're too blind to realize that so it's all my fault. Why don't you do us all a favour and take a break instead of falsely accusing people of stuff and spouting useless "advice" to people in every couple of posts.

 

[El Dude]

OK, I really don't see this thread going anywhere. Why? Because the Rafa fans have circled and tightened the wagons, and see everything that isn't gushing about Rafa as a threat. I've been consistently very moderate in terms of both my fanboyism of Roger and my criticism of Rafa; I've complimented and defended Rafa many times. At one point a couple years ago I was even saying that I think Rafa could end up being the singular GOAT (that was back in 2014).

I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate reasons to be defensive, or that some of us Roger fans are too critical or attacking, or that we're above being biased - of course not. But I am saying that the defensiveness and antagonism makes any and all real conversation impossible. I used to stand outside of Fedal Wars, not wanting to get involved. Gradually I started weighing in, but soon found it was impossible to be a moderate because Rafa fans, by and large, don't seem to differentiate: the enemy is the enemy. As long as you're not with Us, you're with Them.

I'm here to talk about tennis. I actually even think it is interesting to discuss the role that injuries have had in Rafa's career, and in big matches. But it is simply impossible to have these conversations when any and all criticism of Rafa is taken as an attack, even if it is not meant that way. It is kind of a bummer, really, because there are some interesting conversations to be had if cooler heads would prevail.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I honestly don't know how a tennis fan could "hate" Rafa or Roger. It would be like a rock and roll fan "hating" John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix. These guys are iconic, incredible athletes.

Now I don't love Rafa's style of play, but I respect it for its effectiveness. I've said before, but I think you could make a good argument that Rafa, in his prime and on his favorite surface, is the hardest player to beat in tennis history. In fact, I think it goes beyond "making a good argument" to being almost incontestable.

What people forget is that Stan had beat Novak, the three time defending champion, in a fantastic QF match that went to five sets. If people wanted another proof that Stan was playing too good at AO 2014, this can do it. Stan fully deserves the AO title in 2014, not withstanding any injury Rafa may or may not have had. No asterisks. This board was full of crap when the AO 2014 ended. I don't really want to relive that.

 

[Carol]

Winners don't use drugs, AP, so there will be no "cycling". Seems to me you Nadal fans are the most sensitive bunch so I'd say stick with those tunes yourself. Nothing is "missing" by the way but curious to know if you like to offer your worldly advice to everyone or just me? All I could say is missing is common sense and reading comprehension skills of the most rabid Nadal fans here and elsewhere.

Just you.. e.g. When Rafa wins.. Darth doesn't make these rabid posts with the useless subject content that yours does against Rafa. KS is a lot fairer but still doesn't post in the manner you do. Your post are trying to bait all the Nadal fans(since you have put us all together.

Again.. take a break.. move away from the keyboards as other like Kieran has told you. Listen to some simple music that you can comprehend or that will not ignite the foolish silly thoughts that currently dominate your logic. Fed, Goffin, Murray all say great things about Nadal and vice versa. Yet your entire plight on this board is not to talk tennis 100%. Rather its 80% Anti Nadal however in your unmitigated ignorance dare to keep implying that Nadal fans are too sensitive. This is my last post on this topic with you, typically when a person feel that they need to get the final word it shows historically periods of immaturity and insecurity.

Most of my posts are about tennis which again shows the whole forum you don't read things properly. You're actually the one who has made this personal and everyone can see that. Pretty sad to say the least. Again, you just don't even read them properly. It was Carol who derailed this thread also which you haven't even acknowledged. All I did was merely post 1 single video in reply to Carol's post about Nadal's supposed injury against Soderling to show he was moving 100% fine which other posters such as El Dude agreed with. Your buddy Kieran then took it to new levels but of course naturally enough you're too blind to realize that so it's all my fault. Why don't you do us all a favour and take a break instead of falsely accusing people of stuff and spouting useless "advice" to people in every couple of posts.

Yeah......so now it was my fault....:lolz: I love you too :hug

 

[Front242]

Carol, all I said was you mentioned RG 2009 and Soderling first, which you did. Relax.

 

[Kieran]

OK, I really don't see this thread going anywhere. Why? Because the Rafa fans have circled and tightened the wagons, and see everything that isn't gushing about Rafa as a threat. I've been consistently very moderate in terms of both my fanboyism of Roger and my criticism of Rafa; I've complimented and defended Rafa many times. At one point a couple years ago I was even saying that I think Rafa could end up being the singular GOAT (that was back in 2014).

I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate reasons to be defensive, or that some of us Roger fans are too critical or attacking, or that we're above being biased - of course not. But I am saying that the defensiveness and antagonism makes any and all real conversation impossible. I used to stand outside of Fedal Wars, not wanting to get involved. Gradually I started weighing in, but soon found it was impossible to be a moderate because Rafa fans, by and large, don't seem to differentiate: the enemy is the enemy. As long as you're not with Us, you're with Them.

I'm here to talk about tennis. I actually even think it is interesting to discuss the role that injuries have had in Rafa's career, and in big matches. But it is simply impossible to have these conversations when any and all criticism of Rafa is taken as an attack, even if it is not meant that way. It is kind of a bummer, really, because there are some interesting conversations to be had if cooler heads would prevail.

Oh dear, a very "moderate" neutral approach... :lolz:

 

[Kieran]

I honestly don't know how a tennis fan could "hate" Rafa or Roger. It would be like a rock and roll fan "hating" John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix. These guys are iconic, incredible athletes.

Now I don't love Rafa's style of play, but I respect it for its effectiveness. I've said before, but I think you could make a good argument that Rafa, in his prime and on his favorite surface, is the hardest player to beat in tennis history. In fact, I think it goes beyond "making a good argument" to being almost incontestable.

What people forget is that Stan had beat Novak, the three time defending champion, in a fantastic QF match that went to five sets. If people wanted another proof that Stan was playing too good at AO 2014, this can do it. Stan fully deserves the AO title in 2014, not withstanding any injury Rafa may or may not have had. No asterisks. This board was full of crap when the AO 2014 ended. I don't really want to relive that.

It's a funny line of argument: Soderling had taken out Rafa in four sets in Paris, a much more difficult prospect than beating Nole in Oz, yet a final proved to be a totally different space, wouldn'tcha say?

 

[the AntiPusher]

I honestly don't know how a tennis fan could "hate" Rafa or Roger. It would be like a rock and roll fan "hating" John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix. These guys are iconic, incredible athletes.

Now I don't love Rafa's style of play, but I respect it for its effectiveness. I've said before, but I think you could make a good argument that Rafa, in his prime and on his favorite surface, is the hardest player to beat in tennis history. In fact, I think it goes beyond "making a good argument" to being almost incontestable.

What people forget is that Stan had beat Novak, the three time defending champion, in a fantastic QF match that went to five sets. If people wanted another proof that Stan was playing too good at AO 2014, this can do it. Stan fully deserves the AO title in 2014, not withstanding any injury Rafa may or may not have had. No asterisks. This board was full of crap when the AO 2014 ended. I don't really want to relive that.

GSM, please show me where AP stated that Stan didn't deserve to win the match ..please show me...this time I am not speaking for anyone Rafa or Berdych fan..but as AP..show me whereas I stated Stan didn't deserve to win that match..

 

[Front242]

Different opponent. Roger doesn't hit short balls right into the opponent's hit zone.

 

[El Dude]

Oh dear, a very "moderate" neutral approach... :lolz:

Yes, I'd say my approach generally is, at least compared to some here. But keep circling those wagons, Kieran, and attacking anyone who isn't on Team Rafa.

 

[Kieran]

Oh dear, a very "moderate" neutral approach... :lolz:

Yes, I'd say my approach generally is, at least compared to some here. But keep circling those wagons, Kieran, and attacking anyone who isn't on Team Rafa.

And you keep working for Team Wodger, bro, and attacking anyone who isn''t...

 

[El Dude]

So tell me, Kieran, how my view on Rafa is not "moderate." Tell me how I'm trying to invalidate him as a great player or diminish him in any way. Tell me how I present a biased or negative view about him, or an overly biased view about Roger. While you're at it, tell me how I "attack anyone who isn't for Team Wodger."

I look forward to your response.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Oh dear, a very "moderate" neutral approach... :lolz:

Yes, I'd say my approach generally is, at least compared to some here. But keep circling those wagons, Kieran, and attacking anyone who isn't on Team Rafa.

And you keep working for Team Wodger, bro, and attacking anyone who isn''t...

Dude..it's the truth..you are still working for the Rog...take a poll if you don't believe it ask Keli

 

[Kieran]

So tell me, Kieran, how my view on Rafa is not "moderate." Tell me how I'm trying to invalidate him as a great player or diminish him in any way. Tell me how I present a biased or negative view about him, or an overly biased view about Roger. While you're at it, tell me how I "attack anyone who isn't for Team Wodger."

I look forward to your response.

I'm not talking about your view of Rafa, I'm talking about your deranged notion that "Rafa fans have circled and tightened the wagons, and see everything that isn't gushing about Rafa as a threat".

And this whole yard of naked blinkered-ism: "I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate reasons to be defensive, or that some of us Roger fans are too critical or attacking, or that we're above being biased - of course not. But I am saying that the defensiveness and antagonism makes any and all real conversation impossible. I used to stand outside of Fedal Wars, not wanting to get involved. Gradually I started weighing in, but soon found it was impossible to be a moderate because Rafa fans, by and large, don't seem to differentiate: the enemy is the enemy. As long as you're not with Us, you're with Them."

You might not have factored in the idea that maybe you're wrong. Or that maybe it was pointed out to you a few pages back that you weren't paying attention to what was going on. Just before you declared yourself Padawa, whatever the heck that is...

 

[El Dude]

That's a non-answer, Kieran - you just quoted me and said you disagreed with it.

But let me see if I understand: you disagree with the view that Rafa fans are being overly defensive and attacking everyone that disagrees? OK, fair enough. I disagree, because my experience has been otherwise. It is my experience that some Rafa fans here don't differentiate and put everyone who at all says something other than "Rafa's the best!" into one category. That's the circle the wagons thing.

I always factor in the possibility that I'm wrong. But what exactly are you saying I'm wrong about? That's what I'm not clear on.