Monte Carlo Rolex Masters 2017, Monaco, ATP Masters 1000

[britbox]

 

[the AntiPusher]

Congrats to Rafa for finally getting on track into winning ways and for finally becoming the man with more clay titles than anyone else (he just broke his tie with GV).

Rafa now has won 70 titles. Of those, 50 of them are on Clay. That is a whopping 71.42% of all his titles.

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

70 titles too many :cry One can always hope this will be the last trophy the animal ever bites but I doubt it, chances are he sweeps the entire clay season. There is no one else playing this clay season that has shown any decent form this year aside from Kyrgios.

Carol, here's a Fed fan we all can like..he not only dislikes Rafa , he would have been okay if Mr and Mrs Nadal Never dated:heart:

 

[Kieran]

I kind of agree with the Dude here - it's a big tourney to win, but there's no big win here. He didn't defeat any big name - and really Novak was the only big name in the event who I'd consider it a telling moment if he beat him. The great pluses for Rafa is that he came through after the first match without any drama, and that he set a record for winning any tourney ten times, both of which are significant for him at this stage.

Barcelona should tell us if he's going to gather more momentum on clay...

 

[the AntiPusher]

I kind of agree with the Dude here - it's a big tourney to win, but there's no big win here. He didn't defeat any big name - and really Novak was the only big name in the event who I'd consider it a telling moment if he beat him. The great pluses for Rafa is that he came through after the first match without any drama, and that he set a record for winning any tourney ten times, both of which are significant for him at this stage.

Barcelona should tell us if he's going to gather more momentum on clay...

I disagree..we have seen numerous master series whereas a player didn't face a real fight. Look at IW..Fed never changed his shirt , however we didn't say it wasn't a big win..Stan , Murray and Djoker all played...Their games hadn't made the transition from hardcourt to clay..even Rafa's game looked subpar vs Edmonds and the little Argentinan player. Rafa looked great vs Sasha Zverev and the last 12 games vs Goffin.. today's match the young Spaniard was just overmatched..again this was similar to IW..(if not the walkover given by Krygrios things would've been a lot tougher for Roger). Heck, to do anything 10 times is a remarkable accomplishment. Heck Kieran and El Dude, we have been on the same board for almost 10 years if not more..the number 10 ain't easy my friends.

Plus he defeated the biggest name of all Guillermo Vilas..:clap

 

[mrzz]

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

Actually that would be a great final, because if Cuevas manages to get there it means that he managed to stop choking on the big matches. On clay he can be a tough call for anyone. Unfortunately he choke against Pouille, which had nothing to do with that and actually had a great match too, but again unfortunately, he beat himself against Ramos-Vinolas. Either Pouille or Cuevas would have presented Nadal a much tougher final.

Anyway Nadal won and look to be in control all week. The simple thing El Dude was trying to say is that he had not been heavily tested. Considering what I have seen from Djokovic and Murray, I guess Nadal would have beaten them anyway. But thing is that he does not look the world beater that we were used too.


P.S. I was looking at the video Front posted on the Soderling Nadal match. What an insane level those guys were showing...

 

[Kieran]

I kind of agree with the Dude here - it's a big tourney to win, but there's no big win here. He didn't defeat any big name - and really Novak was the only big name in the event who I'd consider it a telling moment if he beat him. The great pluses for Rafa is that he came through after the first match without any drama, and that he set a record for winning any tourney ten times, both of which are significant for him at this stage.

Barcelona should tell us if he's going to gather more momentum on clay...

I disagree..we have seen numerous master series whereas a player didn't face a real fight. Look at IW..Fed never changed his shirt , however we didn't say it wasn't a big win..Stan , Murray and Djoker all played...Their games hadn't made the transition from hardcourt to clay..even Rafa's game looked subpar vs Edmonds and the little Argentinan player. Rafa looked great vs Sasha Zverev and the last 12 games vs Goffin.. today's match the young Spaniard was just overmatched..again this was similar to IW..(if not the walkover given by Krygrios things would've been a lot tougher for Roger). Heck, to do anything 10 times is a remarkable accomplishment. Heck Kieran and El Dude, we have been on the same board for almost 10 years if not more..the number 10 ain't easy my friends.

Plus he defeated the biggest name of all Guillermo Vilas..:clap

That's true too, buddy. I think it's a significant win but in terms of his next match with a Big Name, there's little for us to mull over. But I agree, he looked great against Sasha and in the second set against Goffin. But he's looked great in other tourneys this year so far - until the cup was on the line, then he's generally been anxious, timid and awful. At least today, he got the job done in style. I'm happy with this start to clay, and I hope it means he's ready to gather pace...

 

[El Dude]

That's exactly it, Kieran. Great victory as far as historical records are concerned, but as far as the 2017 tour, it doesn't tell us much. As mrzz said, that's the "simple thing" I was trying to explain, which I'm not sure if AP disagrees with or not: Rafa has still not been truly tested on clay.

 

[El Dude]

Actually he beat Cilic in Aca on HC not clay. Still not a definitive comparison because Marin is a shell of himself this year. He may get a chance to play Andy in Barca if both make it that far. Novak and Stan are just bad right now. Both looked unfocused and Novak in particular needs a confidence shot in the arm. We'll see how they perform at RG, but at these other tournaments they are far from their best level.

That's the second time I considered Acapulco clay...I think it is the Spanish/Latin association with clay tournaments.

Anyhow, yeah - Marin is part of a group of players of which Stan is the greatest: flashes of brilliance and elite level at their best, but erratic and varies widely in terms of quality. Stan looked good early on, but not so much by Miami, when he struggled to beat Nishioka.

As for Andy and Novak, I think they might rise to the challenge if facing Rafa. In fact, it may be what Novak needs. He might lose to David Goffin and be OK with it, but I could see him digging deep when facing others of the Big Four. But we shall see.

 

[El Dude]

That's true too, buddy. I think it's a significant win but in terms of his next match with a Big Name, there's little for us to mull over. But I agree, he looked great against Sasha and in the second set against Goffin. But he's looked great in other tourneys this year so far - until the cup was on the line, then he's generally been anxious, timid and awful. At least today, he got the job done in style. I'm happy with this start to clay, and I hope it means he's ready to gather pace...

You know, Kieran, this reminds me of one Mr. Federer circa 2014-15, when he would cruise through early rounds of tournaments, easily vanquishing lesser opponents, then get all jittery when facing Novak in Slam finals. I wonder if there is a similarity between Rafa v. 2017 and Roger v. 2014-15.

 

[Carol]

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

Actually that would be a great final, because if Cuevas manages to get there it means that he managed to stop choking on the big matches. On clay he can be a tough call for anyone. Unfortunately he choke against Pouille, which had nothing to do with that and actually had a great match too, but again unfortunately, he beat himself against Ramos-Vinolas. Either Pouille or Cuevas would have presented Nadal a much tougher final.

Anyway Nadal won and look to be in control all week. The simple thing El Dude was trying to say is that he had not been heavily tested. Considering what I have seen from Djokovic and Murray, I guess Nadal would have beaten them anyway. But thing is that he does not look the world beater that we were used too.


P.S. I was looking at the video Front posted on the Soderling Nadal match. What an insane level those guys were showing...

But then we comeback to the same, for two years Rafa was playing awful even on clay, Berdych, Tsonga and Monfils are getting worse, Wawrinka today well but not too well tomorrow las always, and we know about the youngest ones still without any MS and GS, Muzz played last two years a little better on clay but obviously it has never his best surface and Novak? well he came back to his game before 2011

 

[the AntiPusher]

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

Actually that would be a great final, because if Cuevas manages to get there it means that he managed to stop choking on the big matches. On clay he can be a tough call for anyone. Unfortunately he choke against Pouille, which had nothing to do with that and actually had a great match too, but again unfortunately, he beat himself against Ramos-Vinolas. Either Pouille or Cuevas would have presented Nadal a much tougher final.

Anyway Nadal won and look to be in control all week. The simple thing El Dude was trying to say is that he had not been heavily tested. Considering what I have seen from Djokovic and Murray, I guess Nadal would have beaten them anyway. But thing is that he does not look the world beater that we were used too.


P.S. I was looking at the video Front posted on the Soderling Nadal match. What an insane level those guys were showing...

I won't watch the match but I recall that rivalry..Rafa won't be inviting Soderling to the Nadal Tennis Academy anytime in the foreseeable future. (Not as much as Rafa no likey Rosol) or Rafa fans suffers from Front.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I kind of agree with the Dude here - it's a big tourney to win, but there's no big win here. He didn't defeat any big name - and really Novak was the only big name in the event who I'd consider it a telling moment if he beat him. The great pluses for Rafa is that he came through after the first match without any drama, and that he set a record for winning any tourney ten times, both of which are significant for him at this stage.

Barcelona should tell us if he's going to gather more momentum on clay...

I disagree..we have seen numerous master series whereas a player didn't face a real fight. Look at IW..Fed never changed his shirt , however we didn't say it wasn't a big win..Stan , Murray and Djoker all played...Their games hadn't made the transition from hardcourt to clay..even Rafa's game looked subpar vs Edmonds and the little Argentinan player. Rafa looked great vs Sasha Zverev and the last 12 games vs Goffin.. today's match the young Spaniard was just overmatched..again this was similar to IW..(if not the walkover given by Krygrios things would've been a lot tougher for Roger). Heck, to do anything 10 times is a remarkable accomplishment. Heck Kieran and El Dude, we have been on the same board for almost 10 years if not more..the number 10 ain't easy my friends.

Plus he defeated the biggest name of all Guillermo Vilas..:clap

That's true too, buddy. I think it's a significant win but in terms of his next match with a Big Name, there's little for us to mull over. But I agree, he looked great against Sasha and in the second set against Goffin. But he's looked great in other tourneys this year so far - until the cup was on the line, then he's generally been anxious, timid and awful. At least today, he got the job done in style. I'm happy with this start to clay, and I hope it means he's ready to gather pace...

Rafa serve was better this tournament but to address your point regarding his early year harcourt tour. Rafa has to abandon his style of play on the hardcourt.. he can't wait to construct his points because Fed proved three times and once Sam Quarry (good grief I can't believe he lost that match) are not gonna wait for a winner. Everyone plays Rafa the same way, 1st loopy short ball..crush it to Rafa's forehand which robs him time to set up and lock in on his on fh. Rafa is forced to create winners from an uncomfortable position which is not his game. Rafa likes to construct his points but it doesn't work on the hardcourt against the tour these days.

 

[the AntiPusher]

That's exactly it, Kieran. Great victory as far as historical records are concerned, but as far as the 2017 tour, it doesn't tell us much. As mrzz said, that's the "simple thing" I was trying to explain, which I'm not sure if AP disagrees with or not: Rafa has still not been truly tested on clay.

I agree, Rafa hasn't been tested on clay. This week was a small sample size with the level of talent he faced.(although I considered Goffin a top ten talent the way he been playing the past 10-12 months.)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So for me MC didn't answer any questions. Rafa didn't have to play any elite or top 10 players. Goffin was the highest ranked player he faced, but is clearly not an elite. The other top 10 players he's defeated this year - Monfils, Cilic and Raonic, who he also lost to - are all not quite elite.

If I'm a Rafa fan, I really want to see how he does against Andy, Stan, and Novak in particular, before going into Roland Garros, before I have any degree of confidence about RG. He's still my favorite to win it, but I want to see how he matches up against other members of the Big Five before feeling confident in my pick.

If I'm a Rafa fan, I would actually be very happy that Rafa did not have to face any of the elite players at MC and got an easy title. The reason is that Rafa has not won a title for a long time. Rafa is a confidence player and that would surely be lacking if he were to face an elite player at MC. Now, with MC trophy in the pocket, Rafa would have new found confidence. He is also likely to win Barcy and then his confidence would be bubbling that he may actually beat up on elite players at Madrid, Rome and RG.

 

[Front242]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

Oh FFS, why, oh why do you Nadal fans have to keep bringing that match up?! :cover There was nothing wrong with his damn knees. Go watch the highlights again. Soderling just played incredible and won, ok. It happens. Players lose. Federer loses. Djokovic loses. Murray loses. Just recently this week both Djokovic and Murray lost and they didn't moan about their elbows. Maybe you should take a leaf out of their book and just zip it already. It's embarrassing reading this time and time again that Nadal only loses when he's injured. Newsflash, that's BS.

Some great quality HD footage for you. Nadal was moving and playing just fine, he just got beaten by a superior player on the day. Just be happy Nadal won today and quit moaning about Soderling.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxT2twF-JuQ[/video]

So you are saying the defending 2008 Wimbledon champion decided not to defend his title because he wasn't able to defend his French Open title which by that time he had won 4 straight times. If you check Wikipedia it was confirmed he had tendentious in both knees. Rafa was injured the entire summer until Montreal loosing to JMDP and again at USO.

Again, you deliver the fat and the unwanted parts, instead of the truth. Front,trump both one syllable name, both one simple way of thinking, imo.

No, he hurt his knees during an exhibition at Queens but not at RG. I honestly feel embarrassed for you and the blind Nadal fans claiming he was injured against Soderling when you see him running full speed after balls that Soderling had belted into the corners. Nadal was still running them down. Must be the sorest knees of all time if he can still do that. Not.

 

[Front242]

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

Actually that would be a great final, because if Cuevas manages to get there it means that he managed to stop choking on the big matches. On clay he can be a tough call for anyone. Unfortunately he choke against Pouille, which had nothing to do with that and actually had a great match too, but again unfortunately, he beat himself against Ramos-Vinolas. Either Pouille or Cuevas would have presented Nadal a much tougher final.

Anyway Nadal won and look to be in control all week. The simple thing El Dude was trying to say is that he had not been heavily tested. Considering what I have seen from Djokovic and Murray, I guess Nadal would have beaten them anyway. But thing is that he does not look the world beater that we were used too.

P.S. I was looking at the video Front posted on the Soderling Nadal match. What an insane level those guys were showing...

Exactly, both of them. So there's no way Nadal had any knee problems running down shots that Soderling had hit at warp speed with his beast of a forehand. Not unless the person claiming so goes by the name of Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles.

 

[Kieran]

We know Rafa is doing well because Front is spamming stuff about him again. It's a good sign, though obviously we have to hope that no innocent children are reading: I'm a firm believer in children getting a solid grounding in history, not alt-facts and fictional accounts.

So for me MC didn't answer any questions. Rafa didn't have to play any elite or top 10 players. Goffin was the highest ranked player he faced, but is clearly not an elite. The other top 10 players he's defeated this year - Monfils, Cilic and Raonic, who he also lost to - are all not quite elite.

If I'm a Rafa fan, I really want to see how he does against Andy, Stan, and Novak in particular, before going into Roland Garros, before I have any degree of confidence about RG. He's still my favorite to win it, but I want to see how he matches up against other members of the Big Five before feeling confident in my pick.

If I'm a Rafa fan, I would actually be very happy that Rafa did not have to face any of the elite players at MC and got an easy title. The reason is that Rafa has not won a title for a long time. Rafa is a confidence player and that would surely be lacking if he were to face an elite player at MC. Now, with MC trophy in the pocket, Rafa would have new found confidence. He is also likely to win Barcy and then his confidence would be bubbling that he may actually beat up on elite players at Madrid, Rome and RG.

This is true. Though I have to admit I wanted Rafa to face Djoker, and beat him, of course. But Rafa's biggest opponent this year has been himself, and winning MC can only have a positive effect in that regard. I hope he faces murray in Madrid...

 

[El Dude]

I just watched some highlights of that great match and I agree with Front: Nadal was showing absolute NO sign of sore knees. Dude could move (not me, Rafa ).

Rafa fans, you can say it -- don't be scared: Rafa does sometimes lose when he's fully healthy. Yes, he does. Really. It is OK, he's still awesome and so are you.

 

[Kieran]

I just watched some highlights of that great match and I agree with Front: Nadal was showing absolute NO sign of sore knees. Dude could move (not me, Rafa ).

Rafa fans, you can say it -- don't be scared: Rafa does sometimes lose when he's fully healthy. Yes, he does. Really. It is OK, he's still awesome and so are you.

Buddy, we could say that federer showed no signs of mono when he defeated Tipsarevic over the course of almost 5 hours in the sweltering heat, then returned two days later to dispatch Berdy in straights. We could say he showed no signs of a groin strain in Oz this year. It's a can of worms that's been tilted over so many times in this forum, it's had the effect of tilting the forum over. Front has changed his story so often on this one, fabricated stuff regarding Rafa's autobiography, and basically flip flopped more often than his most recent whopper regarding FUBAR, that I'm surprised you're encouraging him...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Front /Trump...His ability to plant these seeds of doubts about Rafa is at the level of current American politics..questions if Rafa was experiencing tendinitis ..sore knees or sore loser..
Did Roger have mono, bad back or etc..? Never he brings up.
Not many questions if Roger had a bum knee versus Milos last year at Wimbledon ..again never he brings up
No questions if Novak or Murray loses was due to injuries..
Nadal wins his first tournament in a year yet Front in his current trumpism has resurrected Soderling win that was almost 8 years ago..

Front may be full of yesterday's lunch and Rafa's top misguided hate monger but he does command an audience that never questions his unsupported and unsubstantiated allegations.

Question, what did Rafa gain by loosing all those points for not competing in his grasscourt seasons? He was at that time one of the top grasscourt players in the world besides Roger.

Sometimes i expect common sense to prevail but so did the American public during this past presidential elections..we all know the results of that .