Monte Carlo Rolex Masters 2017, Monaco, ATP Masters 1000

[the AntiPusher]

Pretty amazing that the best two players in the world are Federer and Nadal. A decade after their primes. I think you'd have to go back a long way in tennis history to find such older players performing at such a high level relative to the rest of the tour. Laver/Rosewall etc

it was a few of us on this board that didn't give up on these two champions.. I know I took a lot of quirks from herios saying their time had past but I consistently begged to differ.

I always felt that their skill level although different but still was not rivaled by the current tour with the exception of Stan, Andy and Novak. I put Novak's skill level on par because he has the ability to force his opponents to play his style of play on all surfaces with his superior defense. He will be back. I hope by Wimbledon.. otherwise Roger will win it easily again.

 

[DarthFed]

Thanks Carol ..Just as I been telling Front..Rafa is on the other side of the court.. he wasn't able to do anything.. Listen to Goffin..although Rafa knew the ball was long in his opinion, Goffin says Rafa couldn't do anything and he is one of the fairest player on the tour.. case closed Nuff Said Front ..push on p.a.l.

Yes he could. If he knows the ball is long (and he most certainly did) and doesn't concede the point I think you know what that makes him. Push on yourself, pal.

You like to insist ? then me too, why your Roger didn't concede that point when it was very clear that the Kyrgios ball was good. maybe because it was in a very critic time almost at the end of the match and NOT at the beginning of the first set?

Why would Roger have conceded that point, he didn't hit the ball out or anything. At worst they could've replayed that but it sets a dangerous precedent for the ump to make them replay points due to some clowns in the crowd. The crowd unfortunately can play a part in the match at crucial junctures, that's just the way it is.

What other posters have been trying to tell you is that the same thing happened to Roger in the 2nd set tiebreak. Someone from the crowd called out and it threw him off. I also remember a similar one at 2012 RG in the 2nd set TB vs. Del Potro, some fat cow bellowed a loud out call and you could see Roger practically stop playing in the middle of the point.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yes he could. If he knows the ball is long (and he most certainly did) and doesn't concede the point I think you know what that makes him. Push on yourself, pal.

You like to insist ? then me too, why your Roger didn't concede that point when it was very clear that the Kyrgios ball was good. maybe because it was in a very critic time almost at the end of the match and NOT at the beginning of the first set?

Why would Roger have conceded that point, he didn't hit the ball out or anything. At worst they could've replayed that but it sets a dangerous precedent for the ump to make them replay points due to some clowns in the crowd. The crowd unfortunately can play a part in the match at crucial junctures, that's just the way it is.

What other posters have been trying to tell you is that the same thing happened to Roger in the 2nd set tiebreak. Someone from the crowd called out and it threw him off. I also remember a similar one at 2012 RG in the 2nd set TB vs. Del Potro, some fat cow bellowed a loud out call and you could see Roger practically stop playing in the middle of the point.

This is what's gets me about the poster Front..when that incident happened, everyone including Ks and myself said it was unfortunate and the implications very unfair towards Goffin. Then afterwards that Front begins his sack of puss rants about Nadal being a cheat. I thought it absolutely killed the momentum from the young player but it didn't decide the match. Even Goffin said it wasn't Rafa's fault but now it's two pages over a bad overruled by Cedric Monteua ..it's not the first time Cedric made a mistake, it happened infamously with Victor T. Yet all Front does is try to discredit Nadal..Front is Cali 2.0 :devil

 

[Front242]

You like to insist ? then me too, why your Roger didn't concede that point when it was very clear that the Kyrgios ball was good. maybe because it was in a very critic time almost at the end of the match and NOT at the beginning of the first set?

Ugh. This is getting tiresome. Honestly I think it would be very hard for Nadal to interfere in that call, he was probably in the worst possible position to be sure of anything. He could well suspect it was out -- but hardly be sure of it.

But it was an important point for sure -- anyway I don´t think he is at fault here. About the Federer point, as many others pointed out -- it was the second incident of the night, and maybe the match would be already over if the first had not happened.

Very well put mrzz in regards to yesterday's match. It's amazing how the majority of the posters on this board are fair and pretty intelligent, then there's Front :devil...Front is that guy when you are in the men's locker room shower thats wants to come up and initiate a useless conversation while you are soaping and tryin to cleanse your package.:nono

How many useless posts have you made here? You're one to talk. Always misinterpreting everything like Carol. Telling me rubbish like Rosol is my beloved when I merely made a point about Nadal not being sporting when you said he was one of the fairest guys on tour. Maybe you think he is but I doubt Rosol does or did when he nudged him just 'cos he was losing. That's just one example of an annoying post for absolutely nothing. Just be happy Nadal won a title for the first time since 1956.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Ugh. This is getting tiresome. Honestly I think it would be very hard for Nadal to interfere in that call, he was probably in the worst possible position to be sure of anything. He could well suspect it was out -- but hardly be sure of it.

But it was an important point for sure -- anyway I don´t think he is at fault here. About the Federer point, as many others pointed out -- it was the second incident of the night, and maybe the match would be already over if the first had not happened.

Very well put mrzz in regards to yesterday's match. It's amazing how the majority of the posters on this board are fair and pretty intelligent, then there's Front :devil...Front is that guy when you are in the men's locker room shower thats wants to come up and initiate a useless conversation while you are soaping and tryin to cleanse your package.:nono

How many useless posts have you made here? You're one to talk. Always misinterpreting everything like Carol. Telling me rubbish like Rosol is my beloved when I merely made a point about Nadal not being sporting when you said he was one of the fairest guys on tour. Maybe you think he is but I doubt Rosol does or did when he nudged him just 'cos he was losing. That's just one example of an annoying post for absolutely nothing. Just be happy Nadal won a title for the first time since 1956.

Front, if your panties are too tight maybe you should try a different pair of hosiery..:snicker

You can have the last word P.A.L. , Rafa won and I am done with this thread..Happy Sunday to everyone and Vamos Bulls & Dubs

 

[Front242]

You like to insist ? then me too, why your Roger didn't concede that point when it was very clear that the Kyrgios ball was good. maybe because it was in a very critic time almost at the end of the match and NOT at the beginning of the first set?

Why would Roger have conceded that point, he didn't hit the ball out or anything. At worst they could've replayed that but it sets a dangerous precedent for the ump to make them replay points due to some clowns in the crowd. The crowd unfortunately can play a part in the match at crucial junctures, that's just the way it is.

What other posters have been trying to tell you is that the same thing happened to Roger in the 2nd set tiebreak. Someone from the crowd called out and it threw him off. I also remember a similar one at 2012 RG in the 2nd set TB vs. Del Potro, some fat cow bellowed a loud out call and you could see Roger practically stop playing in the middle of the point.

This is what's gets me about the poster Front..when that incident happened, everyone including Ks and myself said it was unfortunate and the implications very unfair towards Goffin. Then afterwards that Front begins his sack of puss rants about Nadal being a cheat. I thought it absolutely killed the momentum from the young player but it didn't decide the match. Even Goffin said it wasn't Rafa's fault but now it's two pages over a bad overruled by Cedric Monteua ..it's not the first time Cedric made a mistake, it happened infamously with Victor T. Yet all Front does is try to discredit Nadal..Front is Cali 2.0 :devil

Well when you know the ball was out and don't concede the point what else are you? He's acting all innocent but you know deep down he was going, I really need this title, no matter how I win it. Love how you make Nadal being unsporting out to be my fault too. It's really immature and pathetic. He's a professional player and knows damn well when he's hit a ball 6 inches wide and you and his other sack of puss fans (to use your phrase above) are 100% wrong when you say he could do nothing as there have been plenty of matches where the player overruled the umpire and conceded the point, knowing full well it was miles wide. This was not one of those times because Nadal was desperate for a title given the drought he's had. It is what it is but fair he most definitely was not and I don't give a damn what David Goffin says even if you post it another 22 million times. Fair is Stan Wawrinka or Tim Smyczek, for example. It doesn't get any more sporting than Tim.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahrOBadEYcY[/video]

 

[Fiero425]

Why would Roger have conceded that point, he didn't hit the ball out or anything. At worst they could've replayed that but it sets a dangerous precedent for the ump to make them replay points due to some clowns in the crowd. The crowd unfortunately can play a part in the match at crucial junctures, that's just the way it is.

What other posters have been trying to tell you is that the same thing happened to Roger in the 2nd set tiebreak. Someone from the crowd called out and it threw him off. I also remember a similar one at 2012 RG in the 2nd set TB vs. Del Potro, some fat cow bellowed a loud out call and you could see Roger practically stop playing in the middle of the point.

This is what's gets me about the poster Front..when that incident happened, everyone including Ks and myself said it was unfortunate and the implications very unfair towards Goffin. Then afterwards that Front begins his sack of puss rants about Nadal being a cheat. I thought it absolutely killed the momentum from the young player but it didn't decide the match. Even Goffin said it wasn't Rafa's fault but now it's two pages over a bad overruled by Cedric Monteua ..it's not the first time Cedric made a mistake, it happened infamously with Victor T. Yet all Front does is try to discredit Nadal..Front is Cali 2.0 :devil

Well when you know the ball was out and don't concede the point what else are you? He's acting all innocent but you know deep down he was going, I really need this title, no matter how I win it. Love how you make Nadal being unsporting out to be my fault too. It's really immature and pathetic. He's a professional player and knows damn well when he's hit a ball 6 inches wide and you and his other sack of puss fans (to use your phrase above) are 100% wrong when you say he could do nothing as there have been plenty of matches where the player overruled the umpire and conceded the point, knowing full well it was miles wide. This was not one of those times because Nadal was desperate for a title given the drought he's had. It is what it is but fair he most definitely was not and I don't give a damn what David Goffin says even if you post it another 22 million times. Fair is Stan Wawrinka or Tim Smyczek, for example. It doesn't get any more sporting than Tim.

What truly infuriates me about Nadal is that he can be in one of these situations up 6-2, 6-1, 5-0, with 3 MP's serving for it at 40-L and he would still challenge a call to close out some schnook not in his class! He's always been like that; some call it competitive, I call it unsportsmanlike, insecure, and classless! He's had so many opportunities to be magnanimous and do something sporting and he fails the test again and again! Some of his challenges are so bad, he should get 2 of them taken away from him! If not for Carlos B. in the chair, I'm not sure how well he's been pushed to speed up play! Bringing out 2 towels for the ball kids to give him between points isn't really doing the job! His matches drag on due to his perpetual stalling, challenging obvious calls, and toweling off totally oblivious to people wanting to get on with their lives while he's staring into space! :nono :nono :cover - - - - - - - - - Nole Blog - - - - - - -

 

[El Dude]

Congratulations to Rafa - #10 is a great feat.

That said, not only was this the easiest Masters title in my memory, but a very disappointing tournament overall. I had hopes that it would be an epic blood-bath, with half a dozen contenders. But most of those contenders (Andy, Thiem, Stan) were out before the QF, and the another (Novak) in the QF. Rafa was never really challenged, except maybe briefly by Kyle Edmund, the only player he lost a set to.

Anyhow, nice to see Rafa get on the board finally.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Congrats to Rafa for finally getting on track into winning ways and for finally becoming the man with more clay titles than anyone else (he just broke his tie with GV).

Rafa now has won 70 titles. Of those, 50 of them are on Clay. That is a whopping 71.42% of all his titles.

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

 

[Carol]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

 

[Front242]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

Oh FFS, why, oh why do you Nadal fans have to keep bringing that match up?! :cover There was nothing wrong with his damn knees. Go watch the highlights again. Soderling just played incredible and won, ok. It happens. Players lose. Federer loses. Djokovic loses. Murray loses. Just recently this week both Djokovic and Murray lost and they didn't moan about their elbows. Maybe you should take a leaf out of their book and just zip it already. It's embarrassing reading this time and time again that Nadal only loses when he's injured. Newsflash, that's BS.

Some great quality HD footage for you. Nadal was moving and playing just fine, he just got beaten by a superior player on the day. Just be happy Nadal won today and quit moaning about Soderling.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxT2twF-JuQ[/video]

 

[El Dude]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

What are you talking about, Carol? Who is talking about "fault?" If you're replying to me, I was merely pointing out that this was a cupcake Masters, really more of an ATP 500 in terms of the talent Rafa had to face. Would you disagree that Rafa had a really easy path to the championship?

What I don't get is why you feel the need to diminish other players (mainly Roger and Novak) in order to prop Rafa up. I shouldn't to do this, but 2009 RG was hardly a cupcake walk: Roger had to beat Tommy Haas, Gael Monfils, Juan Martin del Potro, and Robin Soderling on his way to the title. As for Novak last year, he had already proved the year previously that he could take Rafa down at RG, so don't even go there.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

What are you talking about, Carol? Who is talking about "fault?" If you're replying to me, I was merely pointing out that this was a cupcake Masters, really more of an ATP 500 in terms of the talent Rafa had to face. Would you disagree that Rafa had a really easy path to the championship?

What I don't get is why you feel the need to diminish other players (mainly Roger and Novak) in order to prop Rafa up. I shouldn't to do this, but 2009 RG was hardly a cupcake walk: Roger had to beat Tommy Haas, Gael Monfils, Juan Martin del Potro, and Robin Soderling on his way to the title. As for Novak last year, he had already proved the year previously that he could take Rafa down at RG, so don't even go there.

El dude, what Carol is stating is just a continuous chain whereas gsm said yesterday Rafa will when the title championship without facing a top ten player. All Carol is saying, the young Spaniard was better than Murray ..Stan , Cilic and Djoker lost to players who played better than them..Rafa was able to play winning tennis all week. Carol didn't diminish the past accomplishments of the top players. When Carol post, she gives you the prime cut, not all the fatty tissue and unwanted extra parts.

 

[El Dude]

Yes, Rafa played very well. But he was never really challenged, never had to play an elite or near-elite player playing well.

But moving ahead, Rafa has a window of opportunity here. He should breeze through Barcelona, and has a good chance of sweeping Rome and Madrid. As a tennis fan, I hope we see someone step up during clay season. But if I'm Rafa, I'm not really worrying about Wimbledon because chances are he won't do all that well there, but he has a chance to really pick up some titles in the next couple months.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Ir's not Rafa's fault that some non top player have played better than the top. It wasn't Federer fault that Rafa had problems in his knee and lost vs Soderling and at that time Novak, Muzz and Wawrinka weren't yet clay specialists and it wasn't Novak's fault that Rafa had to retire after the second match because his wrist and Wawrinka and Muzz played like crap

Oh FFS, why, oh why do you Nadal fans have to keep bringing that match up?! :cover There was nothing wrong with his damn knees. Go watch the highlights again. Soderling just played incredible and won, ok. It happens. Players lose. Federer loses. Djokovic loses. Murray loses. Just recently this week both Djokovic and Murray lost and they didn't moan about their elbows. Maybe you should take a leaf out of their book and just zip it already. It's embarrassing reading this time and time again that Nadal only loses when he's injured. Newsflash, that's BS.

Some great quality HD footage for you. Nadal was moving and playing just fine, he just got beaten by a superior player on the day. Just be happy Nadal won today and quit moaning about Soderling.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxT2twF-JuQ[/video]

So you are saying the defending 2008 Wimbledon champion decided not to defend his title because he wasn't able to defend his French Open title which by that time he had won 4 straight times. If you check Wikipedia it was confirmed he had tendentious in both knees. Rafa was injured the entire summer until Montreal loosing to JMDP and again at USO.

Again, you deliver the fat and the unwanted parts, instead of the truth. Front,trump both one syllable name, both one simple way of thinking, imo.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa Nadal makes tennis history by winning Monte Carlo for tenth time. First male tennis player to win ten titles at the same event. :clap

 

[Carol]

My question is why you Federer's fans always like to dismiss all the Rafa's achievements since 2014. My point is if you like to critic him and not give him the credit and respect that he deserves it I don't see why you get offended when I defense him or I give my opinion about your idol that I don't see he deserves more. All of them have had very easy opponents to reach the finals in certain tournaments but it means that those "easier ones" have played better than the "best ones", like I said in a previous comment sometimes is not the "names" but how every player is playing. It wasn't Rafa's fault that Muzz and Novak have been beaten, it means that their opponents have played better than them. Also it's not his fault that some players are injured or Federer wants to take care with his body and he wants to be focused to do well in Wimbledon. Rafa Nadal, the best clay player of the history has won his MC 10 tittle well deserved playing the semis and final against two good players which have made a great tournament. And by the way I don't remember to see a tournament where every single player has played his best and healthy. Unfortunately always there are someone withdrawn or playing poorly so who ever wins any tournament and against anyone he deserves some credit and recognition, that's all

 

[DarthFed]

Congrats to Rafa for finally getting on track into winning ways and for finally becoming the man with more clay titles than anyone else (he just broke his tie with GV).

Rafa now has won 70 titles. Of those, 50 of them are on Clay. That is a whopping 71.42% of all his titles.

If Andy/Novak/Stan don't get their act together we will see a Rafa vs. Pablo Cuevas final at RG

70 titles too many :cry One can always hope this will be the last trophy the animal ever bites but I doubt it, chances are he sweeps the entire clay season. There is no one else playing this clay season that has shown any decent form this year aside from Kyrgios.

 

[El Dude]

How am I dismissing his achievements? Please stop putting all Federer fans in the same category, Carol. But let's be honest: this was a cupcake Masters. Do you honestly disagree that Rafa had an easy path to the title? That isn't dismissing his achievements -- which are remarkable, and I've congratulated him on his 10th MC -- it is just calling it what it is. I'm sorry but Edmund, Zverev on clay, Schwartzman, Goffin, and Ramos-Vinolas don't constitute real challenges for an elite player.

That said, there is room to be optimistic for Rafa and his fans: He didn't falter, he wasn't upset by a Querrey. He beat all the players he should beat, and quite easily.

But let's not bicker, as it is beyond tedious. There's tennis to talk about. What is more interesting to me, as a tennis fan, is the fact that we're still left with an unanswered question: How does the current version of Rafa match up against elite players? We haven't seen him play Novak or Andy, or even Stan. The only elite player, or even top 10 player, he faced in the last three Masters is Roger Federer, who he lost to twice. He did beat Cilic in Acapulco, so that's good, but that was on clay - not Cilic's best surface. He beat Monfils, Raonic, and Dimitrov at the AO, but none are quite true elites, and all have shown varying degrees of mental weakness and erratic play.

So for me MC didn't answer any questions. Rafa didn't have to play any elite or top 10 players. Goffin was the highest ranked player he faced, but is clearly not an elite. The other top 10 players he's defeated this year - Monfils, Cilic and Raonic, who he also lost to - are all not quite elite.

Now there's another problem: Novak and Andy don't look like elite players right now. They should come around, and maybe a match against each other or Rafa will inspire them to find their elite form. But MC simply didn't answer any of the questions that we started the tournament with: Can Andy and Novak return to elite level, and if so when? Are any of the younger players ready to step up and challenge at big tournaments? And how will Rafa match up against other elite players?

If I'm a Rafa fan, I really want to see how he does against Andy, Stan, and Novak in particular, before going into Roland Garros, before I have any degree of confidence about RG. He's still my favorite to win it, but I want to see how he matches up against other members of the Big Five before feeling confident in my pick.

 

[kskate2]

How am I dismissing his achievements? Please stop putting all Federer fans in the same category, Carol. But let's be honest: this was a cupcake Masters. Do you honestly disagree that Rafa had an easy path to the title? That isn't dismissing his achievements -- which are remarkable, and I've congratulated him on his 10th MC -- it is just calling it what it is. I'm sorry but Edmund, Zverev on clay, Schwartzman, Goffin, and Ramos-Vinolas don't constitute real challenges for an elite player.

That said, there is room to be optimistic for Rafa and his fans: He didn't falter, he wasn't upset by a Querrey. He beat all the players he should beat, and quite easily.

But let's not bicker, as it is beyond tedious. There's tennis to talk about. What is more interesting to me, as a tennis fan, is the fact that we're still left with an unanswered question: How does the current version of Rafa match up against elite players? We haven't seen him play Novak or Andy, or even Stan. The only elite player, or even top 10 player, he faced in the last three Masters is Roger Federer, who he lost to twice. He did beat Cilic in Acapulco, so that's good, but that was on clay - not Cilic's best surface. He beat Monfils, Raonic, and Dimitrov at the AO, but none are quite true elites, and all have shown varying degrees of mental weakness and erratic play.

So for me MC didn't answer any questions. Rafa didn't have to play any elite or top 10 players. Goffin was the highest ranked player he faced, but is clearly not an elite. The other top 10 players he's defeated this year - Monfils, Cilic and Raonic, who he also lost to - are all not quite elite.

Now there's another problem: Novak and Andy don't look like elite players right now. They should come around, and maybe a match against each other or Rafa will inspire them to find their elite form. But MC simply didn't answer any of the questions that we started the tournament with: Can Andy and Novak return to elite level, and if so when? Are any of the younger players ready to step up and challenge at big tournaments? And how will Rafa match up against other elite players?

If I'm a Rafa fan, I really want to see how he does against Andy, Stan, and Novak in particular, before going into Roland Garros, before I have any degree of confidence about RG. He's still my favorite to win it, but I want to see how he matches up against other members of the Big Five before feeling confident in my pick.

Actually he beat Cilic in Aca on HC not clay. Still not a definitive comparison because Marin is a shell of himself this year. He may get a chance to play Andy in Barca if both make it that far. Novak and Stan are just bad right now. Both looked unfocused and Novak in particular needs a confidence shot in the arm. We'll see how they perform at RG, but at these other tournaments they are far from their best level.