Miami Open, Florida, USA, ATP Masters 2017

[Carol]

Tiafoe
Delpo
Bautista
Berdych
Zverev/Kyrgios

If we are talking about facing a top 10 opponent......two of them are formers top ten but not anymore which means there are other players playing better than them, isn't?

 

[Federberg]

IW isn't at altitude...it's 89 feet, in the Coachella Valley. Madrid, however, is at just under 2200 feet. I'm glad you pointed out that the chart used Toronto to stand in for Rogers Cup, and forgot about Montreal.

I stand corrected I've often heard reference to the difference between IW and Miami. And they talked about how quick the ball goes through the air in IW. I assumed it was altitude (which now that I think about it makes no sense). They must have been talking about dry air vs humidity though

 

[Carol]

Fognini just demolished Nishikori. Wow. I love when he is having a good run, he is such a talent. A wasted one, like a few others, but he has insanse feel on his shots, and he can bash the ball as well. When he beat Nadal at USO'15, I wasn't too happy with him, but he was hitting some Federer-esque half volleys, taking the ball so early, even with his WTA serve, he could have achieved much more. He is crazy, but you can't hate on him. Great guy.

I didn't watch that match but I've heard and read tha Nishi was injured, this time is his wrist?

 

[Carol]

I didn't watch the match but I've heard and read that Nishi yesterday was injured and this time because his wrist, poor guy, he is going through injury by injury

 

[the AntiPusher]

Fognini just demolished Nishikori. Wow. I love when he is having a good run, he is such a talent. A wasted one, like a few others, but he has insanse feel on his shots, and he can bash the ball as well. When he beat Nadal at USO'15, I wasn't too happy with him, but he was hitting some Federer-esque half volleys, taking the ball so early, even with his WTA serve, he could have achieved much more. He is crazy, but you can't hate on him. Great guy.

I didn't watch that match but I've heard and read tha Nishi was injured, this time is his wrist?

tell us about how the Spanish bull was moving when you saw him live..

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Terrible, multiple missed opportunities by sock on that game to go up double break and close the door on the set. :cry

Haven't watched, but maybe give some credit to Rafa? ...

I did watch it. It is not that I am not giving credit to Rafa. If you actually watched it, you will know how terrible it was. Jack was up 2-0 and Rafa was serving and Jack had break point opportunity at least three times and every time he missed due to an unforced error on his part as opposed to Rafa hitting a winner or forcing him to an error. In particular, in one point, Jack played brilliantly and constructed the point and moved forward and botched an easy volley. If Jack could break Rafa in that game, that would be 3-0 with a double break lead and practically the set is in the book.

However, once he got out of the difficult situation in the third game, Rafa really played well and deserves full credit.

The point is that when you are playing top players you are going to get some chances here and there and if you fail to take them it is history. That is exactly what happened to Jack Sock.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

Terrible, multiple missed opportunities by sock on that game to go up double break and close the door on the set. :cry

Haven't watched, but maybe give some credit to Rafa? ...

I did watch it. It is not that I am not giving credit to Rafa. If you actually watched it, you will know how terrible it was. Jack was up 2-0 and Rafa was serving and Jack had break point opportunity at least three times and every time he missed due to an unforced error on his part as opposed to Rafa hitting a winner or forcing him to an error. In particular, in one point, Jack played brilliantly and constructed the point and moved forward and botched an easy volley. If Jack could break Rafa in that game, that would be 3-0 with a double break lead and practically the set is in the book.

However, once he got out of the difficult situation in the third game, Rafa really played well and deserves full credit.

The point is that when you are playing top players you are going to get some chances here and there and if you fail to take them it is history. That is exactly what happened to Jack Sock.

True. It's what separates the cream from the crop.

Am reminded of Haas V Fed 2009 FO (of course with much higher stakes). Haas tightened at a crucial moment and Fed took full advantage.

But Rafa is of course quite capable of coming back from 3-0 down, or a set down for that matter.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[the AntiPusher]

Terrible, multiple missed opportunities by sock on that game to go up double break and close the door on the set. :cry

Haven't watched, but maybe give some credit to Rafa? ...

I did watch it. It is not that I am not giving credit to Rafa. If you actually watched it, you will know how terrible it was. Jack was up 2-0 and Rafa was serving and Jack had break point opportunity at least three times and every time he missed due to an unforced error on his part as opposed to Rafa hitting a winner or forcing him to an error. In particular, in one point, Jack played brilliantly and constructed the point and moved forward and botched an easy volley. If Jack could break Rafa in that game, that would be 3-0 with a double break lead and practically the set is in the book.

However, once he got out of the difficult situation in the third game, Rafa really played well and deserves full credit.

The point is that when you are playing top players you are going to get some chances here and there and if you fail to take them it is history. That is exactly what happened to Jack Sock.

The poster is correct, gsm, you are not giving Rafa credit forcing the ufes..Yes Sock had a easy put away but it was at the end of a rally where they were exchanging baseline strokes..he pulled Rafa out of position and rushed the net, Rafa retrieved and returned the ball which was a floater and Sock ran through his volley forgot tennis 101, take your split step before you approached the volley and he missed..the rest was Rafa stepped up his game..Even if he would have converted the break Rafa was breaking Sock serve without much difficulty and outplayed Sock because he is just a higher level tennis player when he is on. Sock hit some forehand winners that only a few players in the top ten would even attempt..

 

[El Dude]

Sock needs to be honest with himself: He is not a star, will never be one, but he could be a consistent top 20 performer who could sneak into the top 10 for a bit and win a bunch of ATP 250s and 500s and, if he catches fire at the right time, could possibly win a Masters. But he plays like he is a soon-to-be elite and takes too many chances, in my opinion.

I'm really curious to see Rafa play Andy and Novak. His game plan seems to be the same: wear down the opponent, force errors, and occasionally strike for a winner. But what seemed to be clear is that it no longer works against Roger, at least when Roger is playing his best (he seems to have slipped a half-step in Miami, so I might favor Rafa in a matchup). But I'm curious if Rafa's current approach and level will fly with Novak and Andy. I'm not sure that it will. In other words, there's a chance that Rafa is the new Ferrer: Dangerous, but more of a gatekeeper to the true elite than one of the elite. I'm not saying this is true, just that we need to see him play Novak and Andy to get a better sense of where he's at.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Sock needs to be honest with himself: He is not a star, will never be one, but he could be a consistent top 20 performer who could sneak into the top 10 for a bit and win a bunch of ATP 250s and 500s and, if he catches fire at the right time, could possibly win a Masters. But he plays like he is a soon-to-be elite and takes too many chances, in my opinion.

I'm really curious to see Rafa play Andy and Novak. His game plan seems to be the same: wear down the opponent, force errors, and occasionally strike for a winner. But what seemed to be clear is that it no longer works against Roger, at least when Roger is playing his best (he seems to have slipped a half-step in Miami, so I might favor Rafa in a matchup). But I'm curious if Rafa's current approach and level will fly with Novak and Andy. I'm not sure that it will. In other words, there's a chance that Rafa is the new Ferrer: Dangerous, but more of a gatekeeper to the true elite than one of the elite. I'm not saying this is true, just that we need to see him play Novak and Andy to get a better sense of where he's at.

Rafa can defeat Andy but still nothing to trouble Novak with his passive/ non aggressive style of play.

 

[Fiero425]

Sock needs to be honest with himself: He is not a star, will never be one, but he could be a consistent top 20 performer who could sneak into the top 10 for a bit and win a bunch of ATP 250s and 500s and, if he catches fire at the right time, could possibly win a Masters. But he plays like he is a soon-to-be elite and takes too many chances, in my opinion.

I'm really curious to see Rafa play Andy and Novak. His game plan seems to be the same: wear down the opponent, force errors, and occasionally strike for a winner. But what seemed to be clear is that it no longer works against Roger, at least when Roger is playing his best (he seems to have slipped a half-step in Miami, so I might favor Rafa in a matchup). But I'm curious if Rafa's current approach and level will fly with Novak and Andy. I'm not sure that it will. In other words, there's a chance that Rafa is the new Ferrer: Dangerous, but more of a gatekeeper to the true elite than one of the elite. I'm not saying this is true, just that we need to see him play Novak and Andy to get a better sense of where he's at.

Rafa can defeat Andy but still nothing to trouble Novak with his passive/ non-aggressive style of play.

Who you tellin'? What has it been 7 matches in a row with without a loss of a set; 15 of them! Just proves where Nadal would be if not for "the real" rivalry between Nadal and Nole! Fedal has always been a joke; more a PR ad for the game! The matches really were that much in doubt; Nadal winning the lion share until recently! Talk about breaking down and aging; Rafa takes the cake! Expectations are still high, but he's falling to average blokes; sometimes with a lead! Nole's still a good front=running and hasn't let too many get away from him; even in this bad patch! :nono :angel: :dodgy: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

 

[Carol]

My goodness, what things I have to read and then I'm the one who likes to dismiss Roger... :roll eyes: so Rafa's fans, you can see that Rafa is getting better and better which means more and more dangerous so be ready to read the most crazy things (like to compare him to Ferru and more) :cover:huh::nono
Watching live the game is very different than through the TV, yesterday was a great night, you could see the difference between a great player (even not playing still his best) and a good one who was beaten up in all the ways (game and mentally). Rafa's serving was better than the previous matches and you can tell that getting his confidence and also more aggressive. I have not any idea how he would play against Novak and Murray but it would depend how each one would be playing. While Rafa has been in a roller coaster and more down than up Novak and Muzz have had very good times but as you can see nothing last forever, the good times neither the bad ones so it would be difficult to think how the competitively would be, the three of them have a great game but like I always say it depends their minds too

 

[El Dude]

Rafa can defeat Andy but still nothing to trouble Novak with his passive/ non aggressive style of play.

See, I just don't know if we can say that yet. They've split their four match-ups in 2015-16, and Andy actually won two of three clay matches. Now 2017 is different. Andy hasn't played all that well and might be rusty when he comes back. And Rafa seems a notch higher than 2015-16. So I think they're going to be about even.

As for Novak, it depends upon which version shows up. He's been struggling, but mainly relative to his 2015 level. Even at his reduced level I think he's at least Rafa's equal, and he may be sparked playing Rafa and re-find his form, or at least a "post-peak" version of it.

But the bottom line: we just don't know because we haven't seen the current versions of these players play against each other.

 

[mrzz]

Point being, I don't see how you can decide which hard court is best for Nadal's game, in spite of what he's won

That´s an old discussion in more than a sense. (I am answering because I agree with Twisted on this). We can always resort from any discussion and rely only on numbers, fine, but we can do better than that. If you only look at the 3x0 in the title count (am I right?), than it is a no contest, but this number is strange in itself: are those courts that different to explain such disparity? I guess not, so obviously there´s more things in to play here. As Twisted said, he had bad luck on the Miami finals, to begin with. And he got to 4 finals, that must mean something (or, in other words, there are more numbers to look at).

On the other hand, maybe Miami is faster (than IW), after all. All actual data I have seen so far seems to confirm that. To my eye, at least this year it looks quite the same.

 

[Carol]

Andy beat Nadal on clay when this last one was playing his worse version of his whole career losing not just against Muzz but against anyone. And against Novak I see that someone forgot 2013 when Novak was still playing his best but Nadal stopped him because he was playing his best too

 

[the AntiPusher]

Andy beat Nadal on clay when this last one was playing his worse version of his whole career losing not just against Muzz but against anyone. And against Novak I see that someone forgot 2013 when Novak was still playing his best but Nadal stopped him because he was playing his best too

Rafa can defeat Novak if he is coming forward and being aggressive. Its the RIGHT way to play.. Rafa issues is he sometimes try to let the game come to him instead of taking the bull by the horn. However, last night he played aggressively from the very first point vs Sock.. He needs to play that way until the day he retires.. Its the only way, IMO

 

[Federberg]

For me, Miami looks a bit slower than IW. Roger was hitting through the court at will in IW, it doesn't feel like the same here. Again.. I think the atmospherics are in play here

 

[Carol]

Andy beat Nadal on clay when this last one was playing his worse version of his whole career losing not just against Muzz but against anyone. And against Novak I see that someone forgot 2013 when Novak was still playing his best but Nadal stopped him because he was playing his best too

Rafa can defeat Novak if he is coming forward and being aggressive. Its the RIGHT way to play.. Rafa issues is he sometimes try to let the game come to him instead of taking the bull by the horn. However, last night he played aggressively from the very first point vs Sock.. He needs to play that way until the day he retires.. Its the only way, IMO

I agree with he has to play more aggressive but also to keep a good serve, but again, the mind has to do a lot with the game and unfortunately it has not worked too well on him for awhile, same it's happening now with Novak and also with Muzz for years otherwise he could have more titles

 

[Carol]

The humidity here is always very high so I suppose that it has a lot to do not just with the surface but also the balls which are getting more heavy

 

[DarthFed]

It does seem high-bouncing. But on TV they say it's fast...and they're there and they're tennis players. Point being, I don't see how you can decide which hard court is best for Nadal's game, in spite of what he's won. And I don't know why we discuss the relative speed of certain courts every year.

Would it convince you if I said I contacted Samson on this matter and he said it's the best HC for Rafa's game?

All joking aside I am just giving my opinion, and on this matter a strong opinion. Speed of the court isn't as important to Rafa as the height of the bounce and of all the HC tournaments I watch during the year I think Miami has the highest bounce easily. Again I am not stating that as though it's fact, just going off what I'm seeing. I think it's lazy thinking to go off of what a player has won and not won and automatically say that his game is better on the surface he's won on. I think with Nadal that his game is better on the HC's of Australia compared to the USO even though he's won 1 title at AO and 2 at USO. It's just one of those things. I definitely think Roger's game is much more suited towards the first indoor masters event of the Fall (Madrid previously and now Shanghai) than it is at IW but he's had much more success at the latter.