Is the WTF the worst advertisement for men's tennis - ever?

[Billie]

I watch women's tennis with the sound turned off - and only if they're pretty. Life is too short, otherwise...

That was a really sexist comment no?.....

The WTA is alive and kicking,they are some really good younger players coming through the ranks,it doesnt happen overnight by the way.
I still stand by my comment that this year's YEC in London has been disappointing,apart from Novak and Roger,watching the other players I have been in Yawn Mode.
I dont like to see any match one sided.You would think when you have the Top 8 Elite players competing the score lines would be closer? sad to say that hasnt been the case at this year's YEC.

Because this year, 3 guys didn't even qualify till the very last tournament of the season before WTF, fashionista. Except for Roger and Nole, and with Rafa withdrawing, most qualified in the fall anyway.

These things happen.

Yeah, Kieran's remarks are awful. I do watch women's tennis from time to time, but there must be my favourites playing or some really interesting match ups for me to watch.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

It's not sexist, Fashionista. It's a preference. I prefer pretty women, but I don't like women's tennis...

Well in my world it was a sexist comment....

I understand full well your not a fan of womens tennis,which dosent bother me at all.

I enjoy both women's and men's tennis.I much prefer the womens finals at Singapore,at least we didnt see blow out scores of 60 61...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I watch women's tennis with the sound turned off - and only if they're pretty. Life is too short, otherwise...

That was a really sexist comment no?.....

The WTA is alive and kicking,they are some really good younger players coming through the ranks,it doesnt happen overnight by the way.
I still stand by my comment that this year's YEC in London has been disappointing,apart from Novak and Roger,watching the other players I have been in Yawn Mode.
I dont like to see any match one sided.You would think when you have the Top 8 Elite players competing the score lines would be closer? sad to say that hasnt been the case at this year's YEC.

Because this year, 3 guys didn't even qualify till the very last tournament of the season before WTF, fashionista. Except for Roger and Nole, and with Rafa withdrawing, most qualified in the fall anyway.

These things happen.

Yeah, Kieran's remarks are awful. I do watch women's tennis from time to time, but there must be my favourites playing or some really interesting match ups for me to watch.

I can handle Kieren with ease... his bark is louder than his bite....

I agree watching the men qualifying for this year's YEC was exciting,still I still have nightmares when I think of the match of Roger v Murray yesterday,please that was a utter disgrace of a match from Murray full stop.

 

[Billie]

^ Not between Basel and Paris he didn't. It was a lot of tennis for Roger and we will see if it might catch up to him for DC but I wouldn't count on it. Including the loss to Raonic he has made short work of pretty much every match since the 1st round of Shanghai when he had to save 5 MP's. It isn't just # of matches played but how long and exhausting the matches are.

And interesting that the only tournament Federer didn't win is the consecutive one in Paris. Boy oh boy, how do you explain that? In the lieu of what happened since USO, how do you explain Cilic?

Of course it is important to make quick work of your matches (which is what Roger and Nole are doing so well here), and I am not claiming that all losses are due to players being exhausted, but mentally maybe not there and physically, it's almost everybody except Nole, Roger and Stan.

 

[Federberg]

^ Not between Basel and Paris he didn't. It was a lot of tennis for Roger and we will see if it might catch up to him for DC but I wouldn't count on it. Including the loss to Raonic he has made short work of pretty much every match since the 1st round of Shanghai when he had to save 5 MP's. It isn't just # of matches played but how long and exhausting the matches are.

And interesting that the only tournament Federer didn't win is the consecutive one in Paris. Boy oh boy, how do you explain that? In the lieu of what happened since USO, how do you explain Cilic?

Of course it is important to make quick work of your matches (which is what Roger and Nole are doing so well here), and I am not claiming that all losses are due to players being exhausted, but mentally maybe not there and physically, it's almost everybody except Nole, Roger and Stan.

I think you're using events to suit your argument, but unfortunately it's difficult to prove. There were other factors that could explain those losses. Quite apart from the fact that both Cilic and Raonic had career days...

 

[tented]

I much prefer the womens finals at Singapore,at least we didnt see blow out scores of 60 61...

Technically, you're right, fashionista, but we did see scores like:

Williams d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-1
Halep d Williams -- 6-0, 6-2
Ivanovic d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-3
Radwanska d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Kvitova d Sharapova -- 6-3, 6-2
Wozniacki d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Halep d Radwanska -- 6-2, 6-2

Not to mention the final:

Williams d Halep -- 6-3, 6-0

It really wasn't that competitive. I'm wondering if they seem more competitive in retrospect, while watching these uncompetitive men's matches.

 

[Billie]

I agree watching the men qualifying for this year's YEC was exciting,still I still have nightmares when I think of the match of Roger v Murray yesterday,please that was a utter disgrace of a match from Murray full stop.

And Andy had his head to head tied with Federer before yesterday. So we are supposed to believe that guy with such a record loses 6:0 6:1 for no other reason than Federer is so awesome.:snigger

Didn't Serena lose badly in one of her round robin matched only to destroy the same player in the final?

 

[Billie]

^ Not between Basel and Paris he didn't. It was a lot of tennis for Roger and we will see if it might catch up to him for DC but I wouldn't count on it. Including the loss to Raonic he has made short work of pretty much every match since the 1st round of Shanghai when he had to save 5 MP's. It isn't just # of matches played but how long and exhausting the matches are.

And interesting that the only tournament Federer didn't win is the consecutive one in Paris. Boy oh boy, how do you explain that? In the lieu of what happened since USO, how do you explain Cilic?

Of course it is important to make quick work of your matches (which is what Roger and Nole are doing so well here), and I am not claiming that all losses are due to players being exhausted, but mentally maybe not there and physically, it's almost everybody except Nole, Roger and Stan.

I think you're using events to suit your argument, but unfortunately it's difficult to prove. There were other factors that could explain those losses. Quite apart from the fact that both Cilic and Raonic had career days...

We can't prove anything, except the fact that Federer lost in Paris, which was the only tournament of the 3 that was played without having a week off before. Raonic was so amazing there, yeah, I saw it.:snigger

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I much prefer the womens finals at Singapore,at least we didnt see blow out scores of 60 61...

Technically, you're right, fashionista, but we did see scores like:

Williams d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-1
Halep d Williams -- 6-0, 6-2
Ivanovic d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-3
Radwanska d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Kvitova d Sharapova -- 6-3, 6-2
Wozniacki d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Halep d Radwanska -- 6-2, 6-2

Not to mention the final:

Williams d Halep -- 6-3, 6-0

It really wasn't that competitive. I'm wondering if they seem more competitive in retrospect, while watching these uncompetitive men's matches.

Well to me at least they were more competitive,as I said before we really cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis.Still I think you can agree with me,overall the quality of play at this years YEC has left a lot to be desired,apart from Novak and Roger.

 

[tented]

Well to me at least they were more competitive

Fair enough. These things are subjective.

Still I think you can agree with me,overall the quality of play at this years YEC has left a lot to be desired,apart from Novak and Roger.

Absolutely.

 

[Kieran]

I much prefer the womens finals at Singapore,at least we didnt see blow out scores of 60 61...

Technically, you're right, fashionista, but we did see scores like:

Williams d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-1
Halep d Williams -- 6-0, 6-2
Ivanovic d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-3
Radwanska d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Kvitova d Sharapova -- 6-3, 6-2
Wozniacki d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Halep d Radwanska -- 6-2, 6-2

Not to mention the final:

Williams d Halep -- 6-3, 6-0

It really wasn't that competitive. I'm wondering if they seem more competitive in retrospect, while watching these uncompetitive men's matches.

Well to me at least they were more competitive,as I said before we really cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis.Still I think you can agree with me,overall the quality of play at this years YEC has left a lot to be desired,apart from Novak and Roger.

Those score are competitive - for women. :snigger

I can handle Kieren with ease... his bark is louder than his bite....

Shhhh...we don't want everybody knowing...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Technically, you're right, fashionista, but we did see scores like:

Williams d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-1
Halep d Williams -- 6-0, 6-2
Ivanovic d Bouchard -- 6-1, 6-3
Radwanska d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Kvitova d Sharapova -- 6-3, 6-2
Wozniacki d Kvitova -- 6-2, 6-3
Halep d Radwanska -- 6-2, 6-2

Not to mention the final:

Williams d Halep -- 6-3, 6-0

It really wasn't that competitive. I'm wondering if they seem more competitive in retrospect, while watching these uncompetitive men's matches.

Well to me at least they were more competitive,as I said before we really cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis.Still I think you can agree with me,overall the quality of play at this years YEC has left a lot to be desired,apart from Novak and Roger.

Those score are competitive - for women. :snigger

I can handle Kieren with ease... his bark is louder than his bite....

Shhhh...we don't want everybody knowing...

You made me say it.....

 

[DarthFed]

^ Not between Basel and Paris he didn't. It was a lot of tennis for Roger and we will see if it might catch up to him for DC but I wouldn't count on it. Including the loss to Raonic he has made short work of pretty much every match since the 1st round of Shanghai when he had to save 5 MP's. It isn't just # of matches played but how long and exhausting the matches are.

And interesting that the only tournament Federer didn't win is the consecutive one in Paris. Boy oh boy, how do you explain that? In the lieu of what happened since USO, how do you explain Cilic?

Of course it is important to make quick work of your matches (which is what Roger and Nole are doing so well here), and I am not claiming that all losses are due to players being exhausted, but mentally maybe not there and physically, it's almost everybody except Nole, Roger and Stan.

Ah but Paris is a lot slower than the others. I don't think the Raonic match was down to fatigue, the stuff was so slow it gave Raonic more time to blast his shots and Roger also served poorly. It's no coincidence that all 5 of Roger's titles this year are on fast surfaces. I don't think it will change come Sunday against Nole either, on slow stuff like Paris and London he is up against it.

 

[mrzz]

I watch women's tennis with the sound turned off - and only if they're pretty. Life is too short, otherwise...

Hail, Kieran. I love to see explicit honesty. And you know what? Most of the time I also (or even) root for the prettiest... (maybe, when they start puting people like us behind bars, we will be in cells close enough that we can go on with this conversation).

But speaking of prejudice, I can see it giving the tone of this whole thread. Why in the world a loopsided score line does necessarily mean a lousy match? I can think of dozens of counter-examples...

A loopsided score line does not even indicate surely a loopsided match. And a loopsided match can still be good, as its loopsided character results from the relative level of both players. So one can be playing fine, and the other playing insanely freaking good, so it is 6x2 6x1. Yet much much better than an 6x4 4x6 7x5 from two guys in a bad day.

Oh, the result was never in doubt? It was at the start of the match, to say the least... and strange comebacks happen. And even if it was never in doubt... this is not the only thing to watch for in tennis.

This year's event have a lot peculiarities which have been discussed in the above posts. Combine all them with what Federer remarked, that this particular surface is making it easier to deal with
the second serve, and there you have it.

As I said in another post, the first set of Djokovic x Wrawrinka (which is almost everything I could watch live) was very good. Judging from the Pavlik's highlights, a lot of other matches had tons of good moments.

My point is: sometimes a narrative slowly creates itself out of many things but the actual facts. If someone comes and say: "look, I saw all the matches, they stink, period", ok, this is one thing, but from what I read here it does not seem to be the case. The comments people made as the matches went on and immediatly after them in general were not like "oh, what a terrible match". Instead, there were a lot of "what a great shot" and so...

In fact I can remember two memorable shots right now. An extremely angled cross-court winner from Djokovic against Wawrinka and an absurd inside-in almost DTL forehand from Federer against Murray (I haven't seen him hit so hard in years). I think this is what this tournament is all about. If we still are lucky enough to get an epic, even better, but you just simply can't have it all, all time, can you?

 

[I.Haychew]

To 99% of sports phans and 100% of non sports phans, "WTF (Eph)" means "What the phuck?" In other words, with the exception of some die hard tennis phans, no one cares.

 

[Fastgrass]

Is there slightest chance of Op being butthurt simply because his Top Favorites couldn't win it so far?


What da ya think guys, Would Mr. Objective Kieren have cared to open same thread if Rafa has 6 WTF titles and Murray has two?


On topic about worst marketing strategy of ATP, I'd say it's Big 4 Bullshit, there is absolutely no logical reasoning behind including Pushrey in group of 3 All time greats. Great to see media and ATP turning to Big 3 now giving reference to last domination period of 12 years in which every year one of them ended as YE#1.


Pushrey sent to home by GOAT with bagel and bread stick, pretty much ended BS IMHO.:lolz:

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Would it not be Pushray, with an a?

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

 

[Front242]

^ Sounds like a new type of stun gun that just gently pushes the victim instead of zapping them with 10,000 volts

 

[Fastgrass]

I mean, credit to the men who are thrashing the brave elite, but isn't this more like a WTA event? And I can't slag it off any more than that...

On this year's evidence, the short answer is yes.

We have one bad tournament and it becomes the worst advert for men's tennis? So I guess we would say the same if we get duff results at one of the slams? This is one tournament... unless this is just an attempt to criticise a tournament that a certain player hasn't been particularly successful at? History would argue against the proposition. Historically, there have been some outstanding matches at the WTF. I suspect a point nehmeth made is key... with so many players having to fight to qualify, they had nothing left. If I had to criticise one player it would be Stan for his result against Novak. As I recall only Stan, Roger and Novak were relatively comfortably qualified with time to spare

Haha well said. This must be core of discussion rather than quality of matches in this year's WTF.

I've seen some extreme Nadal trolls treating it as "Meaningless Exho" just because Nadal's 1D moon balling strategy doesn't work in indoors since it has low bounce. I can understand why they hates this tournament so much since Nadal is only all time great having pathetic record at prestigious and top tier tournament. Nadal's record at WTF is pretty bad for his standards not for winning it just for once but his overall win- loss record. So this thread didn't come as shocker but I don't see any reason to feed Nadal troll agenda of shooting this tournament down.

How foolish it looks to bash prestigious tournament like WTF which has rich history of high quality matches, competition since 1970 which has been held on 15 different venues so far based on few low quality matches this year which has nothing to do with WTF format but current level of competition which is pretty low? Regardless of what Nadal trolls think it has always remained one of the best tournament on tour. Back in days of Borg it was even more prestigious than AO, top players used to skip AO giving preference to WCT. Now it's fairly good consensus that WTF is second best and prestigious tournament behind GS and it's also top criterion for GOAT related discussions.

 

[Federberg]

^I do agree with you that there was probably an agenda for this thread

But I have to say, I disagree about the current level of competition being low. Rafa being injured for large swathes of the year certainly doesn't help optimise the level of competition. As for the WTF, I strongly believe that the reason it's been so lacklustre, apart from yesterday of course, is because 5 of the eight participants had to go to the wire to get into it. I think they expended most of their mental resources just to qualify and had nothing left. My suggestion would be having more than a 1 week gap for the tournament. It seems like that wasn't enough this time...