Is the WTF the worst advertisement for men's tennis - ever?

[Federberg]

We have one bad tournament and it becomes the worst advert for men's tennis? So I guess we would say the same if we get duff results at one of the slams? This is one tournament... unless this is just an attempt to criticise a tournament that a certain player hasn't been particularly successful at? History would argue against the proposition. Historically, there have been some outstanding matches at the WTF. I suspect a point nehmeth made is key... with so many players having to fight to qualify, they had nothing left. If I had to criticise one player it would be Stan for his result against Novak. As I recall only Stan, Roger and Novak were relatively comfortably qualified with time to spare

 

[tented]

How many of this year's "elite 8" were killing themselves playing tournaments to qualify? Probably some burn out there.

While I enjoy the fact that Novak does pretty well here, I have never been a fan of this tournament or it's format.

I like the format. All good players and you get to see them a couple of times. We've had a couple of very good year end tourneys, but it's true that it is unfortunate people are killing themselves to get qualified. Also people like Berdy are just happy to be there, not play for the trophy. They need to fix that.

I agree, Denisovich.

In theory, the format is a great idea. Consider how many times we've watched Player X beat Player Y at a tournament, and wonder what it would have been like had Player X played Player Z. Well, at the WTF you have a chance of seeing both of these matches, so that's great.

In reality, the actual execution of this format isn't always so great, because it's at the end of the year. Too many of them are mentally and/or physically burned out to make it as compelling and as competitive as it should be.

 

[Denis]

^ It's difficult to fix though. Everyone is done at this point, it's almost like holidays except for people like the Fedster and Novak who are very keen on the final trophy of the year.

A week more rest would not help I think, cause everyone is thinking of beaches at this point. Don't think there is a solution. Maybe make sure that the lower ranked players dont kill themselves in the last few tourneys. Dont know how you can prevent that though.

 

[tented]

^ It's difficult to fix though. Everyone is done at this point, it's almost like holidays except for people like the Fedster and Novak who are very keen on the final trophy of the year.

A week more rest would not help I think, cause everyone is thinking of beaches at this point. Don't think there is a solution. Maybe make sure that the lower ranked players dont kill themselves in the last few tourneys. Dont know how you can prevent that though.

Yes, you're right -- that's the problem: it's difficult, if not impossible, to fix. But, to quote Hemingway, isn't it pretty to think so?

 

[Kieran]

I'm not completely sold on the burnout theory for this years appalling event. I mean, Federer is 33, so he's giving up 6 or 7 years on everybody, and he;s had a busy time of it since Wimbledon. How is he light as an elf on his feet and the youngsters are yawning and looking for bed?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I know we cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis
Before my good buddy Kieran comes and rubbish's what I am about to comment on this year's YEC tournament....remember I have Mafia links Kieran...

I much preferred watching the WTA finals at Singapore,I felt the ladies were more competitive.Apart from Novak and Roger,the rest of the so called elite Top 6 players to me have been unimpressive in this tournament.

 

[Federberg]

I know we cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis
Before my good buddy Kieran comes and rubbish's what I am about to comment on this year's YEC tournament....remember I have Mafia links Kieran...

I much preferred watching the WTA finals at Singapore,I felt the ladies were more competitive.Apart from Novak and Roger,the rest of the so called elite Top 6 players to me have been unimpressive in this tournament.

I can't really see how anyone can argue with that statement. It's a fact, it was far more competitive

 

[Billie]

Well, Kieran, Federer is a much better player than most of them. He is wise and he takes care of his schedule. He played 3 tournaments in 2 months before coming to London (if I am not mistaken) then there is one day off in round robin in this format, matches are 2 out of 3. How many tournaments have Andy, Nishikori, Berdych, Raonic played in the same amount of time? Even though they are younger, fatigue catches up with everybody eventually.

I would propose a cut off for qualifying for this tournament, like the end of USO; but then that has its own flaws, it would be perhaps unfair to players who perform well in the fall. Tough to say how to improve it, really.

 

[Kieran]

I know we cant compare mens tennis to womens tennis
Before my good buddy Kieran comes and rubbish's what I am about to comment on this year's YEC tournament....remember I have Mafia links Kieran...

I much preferred watching the WTA finals at Singapore,I felt the ladies were more competitive.Apart from Novak and Roger,the rest of the so called elite Top 6 players to me have been unimpressive in this tournament.

I ain't gonna haggle with the mafia, dear, I remember you brought them to Rafa's manor and he hid himself in a cupboard (he kept the light on in there, though).

It's the lack of competitiveness which has exposed this years tourney. If the women are doing it better, then there's the most damning evidence of all...

 

[Billie]

Maybe the ladies were more competitive this year, still, I prefer watching men even in these blowouts.:snigger

There is more time to make this year's WTF more interesting with semis and final.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

How many of this year's "elite 8" were killing themselves playing tournaments to qualify? Probably some burn out there.

While I enjoy the fact that Novak does pretty well here, I have never been a fan of this tournament or it's format.

I would like to make one small change to the format. i.e., get rid of the semifinals.
After the RR, let the two winners directly play the finals. Give 250 points for each
RR match and 750 points for the final so that the total for undefeated champion is
exactly the same viz., 1500.

My motivation for this is twofold.

1. This would make the WTF tank proof. With this tweak, no player has any incentive
to tank any match or any set or even any game.

2. Now, I want you all to imagine a simple scenario. Say, Kei beats Novak and Stan beats
Fed, Kei and Stan will be playing in the finals. Do you think it would be fair? Worse it is
possible that the second place finisher in each group could reach the SF with just one RR win
and then reach the final. How would you like 2 players who had 1 RR win each in the round
robin matches playing in the final while the two 3-0 winners of the group get eliminated in
semifinals. If you are having round robin, then you should not follow it up with a single
elimination tournament again. (I know you all would say, this is not likely to happen; however
it can happen and it should be prevented).

 

[Kieran]

Well, Kieran, Federer is a much better player than most of them. He is wise and he takes care of his schedule. He played 3 tournaments in 2 months before coming to London (if I am not mistaken) then there is one day off in round robin in this format, matches are 2 out of 3. How many tournaments have Andy, Nishikori, Berdych, Raonic played in the same amount of time? Even though they are younger, fatigue catches up with everybody eventually.

I would propose a cut off for qualifying for this tournament, like the end of USO; but then that has its own flaws, it would be perhaps unfair to players who perform well in the fall. Tough to say how to improve it, really.

It doesn't stack up, Billie. Here's the numbers on matches played since the USO - and bear in mind that since Wimbledon Federer's schedule has been hectic. But this is post-USO (doesn't include the WTF):

Murray 23
Raonic 17
Berdych 17
Federer 15
Nishi 14
Djoker 14
Cilic 9
Waw 6

There's no physical reason why Berdy, for example, should be knackered, and Federer isn't. Some players have been chasing their place here - and Federer has been chasing the DC and world #1.

Why is he light as a daisy, and they should be burned-out from it all? I don't buy it. I don't discount it totally, but it's a hard sell...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Maybe the ladies were more competitive this year, still, I prefer watching men even in these blowouts.:snigger

Me too.

People call Maria versus yet another girl, a competitive match, just because it goes to
three sets and Maria screams her heart out.

But, typically these matches have negative differentials by both players and roughly
the UFE count of both players put together would be around 100 (not to mention the
double faults).

I would much rather watch a blowout Men's tennis matches than a three hour
long WTA match where neither player seems too keen on winning.

 

[Kieran]

I watch women's tennis with the sound turned off - and only if they're pretty. Life is too short, otherwise...

 

[Billie]

Which 15 matches Federer played, Kieran? He went to Shanghai and played 6 matches there, then went back home and played Basel, had a week off and came to London. To me that is not so much travelling and playing. In my opinion, it is harder to go from one tournament to another in consecutive weeks like most of them had to do.

So who now thinks that Federer was just too tired at this year's USO because he played so much tennis in two Masters tournaments before it?

But it is the problem for the players, they should clinch that spot beforehand so they are not so pressed making it in the last tournaments.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I watch women's tennis with the sound turned off - and only if they're pretty. Life is too short, otherwise...

That was a really sexist comment no?.....

The WTA is alive and kicking,they are some really good younger players coming through the ranks,it doesnt happen overnight by the way.
I still stand by my comment that this year's YEC in London has been disappointing,apart from Novak and Roger,watching the other players I have been in Yawn Mode.
I dont like to see any match one sided.You would think when you have the Top 8 Elite players competing the score lines would be closer? sad to say that hasnt been the case at this year's YEC.

 

[Kieran]

It's not sexist, Fashionista. It's a preference. I prefer pretty women, but I don't like women's tennis...

 

[Billie]

^^ I forgot Paris. Still had a week off between each of those.

 

[Kieran]

Which 15 matches Federer played, Kieran? He went to Shanghai and played 6 matches there, then went back home and played Basel, had a week off and came to London. To me that is not so much travelling and playing. In my opinion, it is harder to go from one tournament to another in consecutive weeks like most of them had to do.

So who now thinks that Federer was just too tired at this year's USO because he played so much tennis in two Masters tournaments before it?

But it is the problem for the players, they should clinch that spot beforehand so they are not so pressed making it in the last tournaments.

Here's his schedule, Billie. 2 DC matches, 5 each in Paris and Basle, and 3 in Paris...

 

[DarthFed]

^ Not between Basel and Paris he didn't. It was a lot of tennis for Roger and we will see if it might catch up to him for DC but I wouldn't count on it. Including the loss to Raonic he has made short work of pretty much every match since the 1st round of Shanghai when he had to save 5 MP's. It isn't just # of matches played but how long and exhausting the matches are.