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Federberg

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Oh, come on. And @lob, hadn't he just won the game? My TV is showing it on delay for some reason, so I could only see the scores.
commentators on Amazon Prime kept going on about some sort of knee injury. To be honest I don't know if it's real or not. Whenever I bothered to watch he was moving ok. The whole injury narrative seemed to occur if Karen put together a few good shots. Didn't know if it was a bunch of Rafa fans commentating in the end :D
 

mrzz

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Oh, come on.

No dig intended but I am also almost sure Nadal will withdraw. He had almost zero confidence to run forward. Even his attitude when the match ended was strange. I mean, I would say exactly the same thing if it was any other player in the same situation. Considering still is the knees, it would even a bit stupid to play (unless it is way less serious than it seemed to him).

But something that is out of his control, that El Dude pointed out is that, yes, prepare yourself for the 098274324 pages of discussion about that. I 'll meet you all again just after that...
 

Moxie

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commentators on Amazon Prime kept going on about some sort of knee injury. To be honest I don't know if it's real or not. Whenever I bothered to watch he was moving ok. The whole injury narrative seemed to occur if Karen put together a few good shots. Didn't know if it was a bunch of Rafa fans commentating in the end :D
That's what I don't get, and you nailed it. You guys are all acting like the commies are Rafa fans making excuses. Let's just remember that came from commentators. I hope he's not bothered by the knee, though. If so, he should bail out now, including Miami, and protect his RG possibilities.
 

Moxie

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No dig intended but I am also almost sure Nadal will withdraw. He had almost zero confidence to run forward. Even his attitude when the match ended was strange. I mean, I would say exactly the same thing if it was any other player in the same situation. Considering still is the knees, it would even a bit stupid to play (unless it is way less serious than it seemed to him).

But something that is out of his control, that El Dude pointed out is that, yes, prepare yourself for the 098274324 pages of discussion about that. I 'll meet you all again just after that...
Obviously there was a dig intended. But that is disappointing and disturbing to hear. As I said above, he has to protect his clay season, though. If he's injured, I don't see what there is to discuss. There are a few Rafa fans here that do play directly into the "if Rafa lost he was injured" trope, but not all of us. Folks could ignore the others. That's why it goes on for 12 pages, frankly. But the Fed fans are getting nearly as bad with that, and have always leaned hard on "if Fed lost he played crap," anyway, and not so much credit to the guy who beat him.

As to the commentators bringing it up in the first place, as @Federberg mentioned: Did anyone see Kyrgios' tweet after the Djokovic loss? He said that he loses and the press slags him off for being inconsistent. When Djokovic lost to the same guy, they speculated on injury or distraction. He said: Maybe Kohly just played great tennis. He's not wrong to point that out. When the greats don't play great, it's the commentators that start it with looking for reasons why, and then the so-called "excuses" start.
 
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Moxie

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Has an injured player defeated a healthy opponent before today?>
According to Fed fans, Roger beat Tiafoe, Youzhny, F. Lopez and Kohlschreiber with a bad back at USO 2017. Finally caught up to him with del Potro. Did an injured player beat a healthy one today? Players carry niggles. It depends on when they get bad. Monfils withdrew yesterday with an Achilles that was worsened, but not new. So he beat other players this week with a sore Achilles.
 

Moxie

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It did disrupt KK's concentration and he dropped serve promptly. He regrouped and broke back.
Khachanov, that master of concentration, you mean? So you're assuming "gamesmanship" and no need for a trainer. Read Mrzz's post. He thought Rafa's movement was poor.
 

mrzz

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Obviously there was a dig intended. But that is disappointing and disturbing to hear. As I said above, he has to protect his clay season, though. If he's injured, I don't see what there is to discuss. There are a few Rafa fans here that do play directly into the "if Rafa lost he was injured" trope, but not all of us. Folks could ignore the others. That's why it goes on for 12 pages, frankly. But the Fed fans are getting nearly as bad with that, and have always leaned hard on "if Fed lost he played crap," anyway, and not so much credit to the guy who beat him.

As to the commentators bringing it up in the first place, as @Federberg mentioned: Did anyone see Kyrgios' tweet after the Djokovic loss? He said that he loses and the press slags him off for being inconsistent. When Djokovic lost to the same guy, they speculated on injury or distraction. He said: Maybe Kohly just played great tennis. He's not wrong to point that out. When the greats don't play great, it's the commentators that start it with looking for reasons why, and then the so-called "excuses" start.
No dig, Mox. Guy is limping, should withdraw the next match. Is really that simple.

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The_Grand_Slam

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According to Fed fans, Roger beat Tiafoe, Youzhny, F. Lopez and Kohlschreiber with a bad back at USO 2017. Finally caught up to him with del Potro. Did an injured player beat a healthy one today? Players carry niggles. It depends on when they get bad. Monfils withdrew yesterday with an Achilles that was worsened, but not new. So he beat other players this week with a sore Achilles.

Actually I wasn't mocking Nadal.

I genuinely am dumbfounded how Khachanov managed to lose this one with Nadal barely moving after 2-1 in set 2.
 

Moxie

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No dig, Mox. Guy is limping, should withdraw the next match. Is really that simple.

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You didn't post it, El Dude did, so you don't have to defend it. And he owned the dig. It wasn't at Rafa, it was at Rafa fans who post here. Also, it was fairly mild, just irritating. No point in dragging this one out.
 

Moxie

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Actually I wasn't mocking Nadal.

I genuinely am dumbfounded how Khachanov managed to lose this one with Nadal barely moving after 2-1 in set 2.
Oh, dear. As I said, I haven't seen the match. I figured if he'd done so well v. KK, who I did consider a dangerous opponent, that he couldn't be that hurt. Especially given some of the above comments. Mrzz said he looked impaired, but Federberg said he looked fine and it was the commentators ginning it up. Lob thinks that the calling for the trainer was to distract KK. Hard to know until I see it for myself, I guess.
 
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The_Grand_Slam

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Oh, dear. As I said, I haven't seen the match. I figured if he'd done so well v. KK, who I did consider a dangerous opponent, that he couldn't be that hurt. Especially given some of the above comments. Mrzz said he looked impaired, but Federberg said he looked fine and it was the commentators ginning it up. Lob thinks that the calling for the trainer was to distract KK. Hard to know until I see it for myself, I guess.

Khachanov had a fast start going up 3-1 but from thereon he was playing catch-up whole match then suddenly at 1-2 in set 2 Nadal had an MTO and his serve speeds went down after that.
 

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You didn't post it, El Dude did, so you don't have to defend it. And he owned the dig. It wasn't at Rafa, it was at Rafa fans who post here. Also, it was fairly mild, just irritating. No point in dragging this one out.
Got It now. Yeah, that El Dude Guy.

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GameSetAndMath

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Now, this is a win-win situation for Ralph. If he loses tomorrow, Nadalites can say, "look he was visibly injured, we should hail him for just playing instead of withdrawing". If he wins tomorrow, Nadalites can say "Rafa is so great and is in Roger's head that with zero knees he can beat up Rog".
 

Moxie

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Khachanov had a fast start going up 3-1 but from thereon he was playing catch-up whole match then suddenly at 1-2 in set 2 Nadal had an MTO and his serve speeds went down after that.
I've only watched the scores, but Nadal had at least 3x MPs at 5-4 in the first. KK held him off and forced the TB, which he lost at 2. He was also down an early break in the 2nd. I think you're wrong about when Nadal took the MTO, because I noticed that Rafa had just won the game and was up when he took the MTO. From the scores, it looked like KK was having a hard time holding his own. To make it about the MTO seems a bit much, but I'll watch the match and get back to you.
 

El Dude

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Haha. I was mostly joking. Mostly.

Anyhow, Rafa did look hobbled. I wouldn't be surprised if he withdrew because if he truly is hobbled, Roger will party like its 2017.

But it was also classic Rafa: he is such a surgeon in the way he clinically takes players apart.
 

Moxie

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Now, this is a win-win situation for Ralph. If he loses tomorrow, Nadalites can say, "look he was visibly injured, we should hail him for just playing instead of withdrawing". If he wins tomorrow, Nadalites can say "Rafa is so great and is in Roger's head that with zero knees he can beat up Rog".
Puny, as usual. If Rafa's knees are bothering him, this is not positive news for him, or for his fans. I hope his knees are not bothering him. I hope he plays tomorrow and wins. Is it really necessary to set up the pre-narrative?
 

The_Grand_Slam

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I've only watched the scores, but Nadal had at least 3x MPs at 5-4 in the first. KK held him off and forced the TB, which he lost at 2. He was also down an early break in the 2nd. I think you're wrong about when Nadal took the MTO, because I noticed that Rafa had just won the game and was up when he took the MTO. From the scores, it looked like KK was having a hard time holding his own. To make it about the MTO seems a bit much, but I'll watch the match and get back to you.

We're basically saying the same thing.
Khachanovs serve kept the score respectable in the 1st set.

I'm correct about the score.Khachanov was serving first in the second.He saved 2 BPs to hold at 2-1 and the MTO and ensuing injury issue.Khachanov was broken after the MTO and broke back immediately.
 

Moxie

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Haha. I was mostly joking. Mostly.

Anyhow, Rafa did look hobbled. I wouldn't be surprised if he withdrew because if he truly is hobbled, Roger will party like its 2017.

But it was also classic Rafa: he is such a surgeon in the way he clinically takes players apart.
What I think a lot of non-Rafa fans don't appreciate is that Nadal can play with a lot of pain. He's a very committed player. If he was lesser, he probably did take KK apart because he could. Something for Khachanov to ruminate over, as he moves up the ladder.