Indian Wells, BNP Paribas Open, Masters 1000

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
Ugh - disappointing. Classic example of defense beating offense. Nishioka is a good player, but he won by attrition.

I did not see today's match of Nishioka. But, I do remember distinctly that he is a feisty player. He played really well (I call him pocket rocket of ATP) one year in IW/M (is that 2017 or 18?). But, then he got injured and was sidelined for a long time. Hoping he could make some noise this year.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,820
Points
113
Ugh - disappointing. Classic example of defense beating offense. Nishioka is a good player, but he won by attrition.
From what I heard from commies, is this fair? Nishioka is a good player, as we know. They said he dictated through much of the match. I only watched the last set. Anyway, helluva fight from FAA. I know on the FAA thread you mentioned that you see bits of all of the Big 3 in FAA. This would be the Rafa part, I'd have to say. He was never-say-die. Was he down 1-4 or 1-5? He lost today, but that attitude is going to take him a long way.
 

herios

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
8,984
Reactions
1,659
Points
113
I did not see today's match of Nishioka. But, I do remember distinctly that he is a feisty player. He played really well (I call him pocket rocket of ATP) one year in IW/M (is that 2017 or 18?). But, then he got injured and was sidelined for a long time. Hoping he could make some noise this year.
Nishioka is definitely back in track after his injury.
 

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
You knew exactly what @Nadal goat2 meant originally, but decided to misinterpret it on purpose. No one here thinks Rafa has five IW singles titles.

This is unbelievably ridiculous. After he making the error, I am being blamed. I did not misinterpret on purpose. I do think Nadal Goat made an error (independent of whether he actually made the error or not).
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,148
Reactions
5,815
Points
113
I would not say he won by attrition. I think in those moments Felix was too eager with some of those shots. He will learn from this match and he will be more calmer the next time these moments comes around.

Sure. Maybe it is semantics. I see attritional play as largely winning through strong defense. Consider that FAA hit 50+ winners to Nishioka's 16, while FAA had 66 unforced errors to Nishioka's 28 (can't remember exactly - by memory from the game stats). FAA had 13 aces but 8 double faults, while Nishioka had 0 aces and 1 DF. It was a classic offense/defense matchup, but FAA lost because of all of those errors, which Nishioka contributed to by playing solid defense.
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,148
Reactions
5,815
Points
113
Thiem looks to be playing better. I didn't watch much tennis in the early 00s, but how would folks compare him to peak Guillermo Coria? They seem to be similar in terms of results: great on clay, decent elsewhere. Wasn't Coria supposed to be the next dominant clay player after Kuerten, but Rafa came in and destroyed him, contributing to the yips that ended his career? Maybe Thiem will bookend Rafa on the other side and breakthrough this year....maybe.
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,148
Reactions
5,815
Points
113
Gilles Simon isn't a very likeable player, in terms of on court persona.

(I'm watching the replay, waiting for Novak - didn't realize it wasn't live).
 

herios

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
8,984
Reactions
1,659
Points
113
Thiem looks to be playing better. I didn't watch much tennis in the early 00s, but how would folks compare him to peak Guillermo Coria? They seem to be similar in terms of results: great on clay, decent elsewhere. Wasn't Coria supposed to be the next dominant clay player after Kuerten, but Rafa came in and destroyed him, contributing to the yips that ended his career? Maybe Thiem will bookend Rafa on the other side and breakthrough this year....maybe.
You are dreaming. Not happening.
 

Carol

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
9,225
Reactions
1,833
Points
113
Felix has made a lot of errors and his serve has not been good, very low percent while Nishioka has played really well the whole match. Only after that 5-1 Felix has started to play better until the tiebreak when in the most crucial time he has been very erratic again so....he lost. Well deserved win by the Japanese
 

mrzz

Hater
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
6,172
Reactions
2,999
Points
113
From what I heard from commies, is this fair?

He was defensive. Moxie. Of course, things are not always black and white, but mostly, yes. But it was smart defense, to begin with. And relentless energy.

And you gotta give a huge amount of credit to a guy who wins in a TB after having 5x1, match points, playing against the new wonder of the tour, against the crowd, to get to a round of a big tournament he is not used too, not long after coming back from injury. It takes nerves of steel and he showed it.
 

tented

Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
21,690
Reactions
10,551
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Sure. Maybe it is semantics. I see attritional play as largely winning through strong defense. Consider that FAA hit 50+ winners to Nishioka's 16, while FAA had 66 unforced errors to Nishioka's 28 (can't remember exactly - by memory from the game stats). FAA had 13 aces but 8 double faults, while Nishioka had 0 aces and 1 DF. It was a classic offense/defense matchup, but FAA lost because of all of those errors, which Nishioka contributed to by playing solid defense.

I missed the stats summary at the end, but even if you’re off a bit with those numbers, they do tell the tale. 50+ winners vs. 16? You’d think FAA was playing Andy Murray.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,820
Points
113
Thiem looks to be playing better. I didn't watch much tennis in the early 00s, but how would folks compare him to peak Guillermo Coria? They seem to be similar in terms of results: great on clay, decent elsewhere. Wasn't Coria supposed to be the next dominant clay player after Kuerten, but Rafa came in and destroyed him, contributing to the yips that ended his career? Maybe Thiem will bookend Rafa on the other side and breakthrough this year....maybe.
I wouldn't compare him to Coria, at all. When Thiem came up, I don't think anyone pegged him as a clay-courter, especially. It's just been where his game best translates. Coria is a classic clay-courter. I would more compare him to Nadal and Ferrer, in recent terms, both in clay-court chops and ability to translate, though Coria and Ferrer were much more limited, obviously. Coria was absolutely the best clay courter of the era, when Rafa came along. The yips that ended his career is complicated, and has more to do with losing the FO final to Gaudio, who also fell apart, shortly after. Players who are top of the line now tend to be more across-the-board less surface-specialists, even if the results tend to one surface. I don't see Thiem as being the obvious bridge to clay dominance, post-Rafa. Obviously, there is no Rafa, but there is also no Coria, or Kuerten. I could be wrong, but I think the players coming up who are lethal are all more "hybrids."
 

mrzz

Hater
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
6,172
Reactions
2,999
Points
113
Thiem looks to be playing better.

Yes, watched a bit of that too and it was surely better than what he showed in South America. He is hitting the back hand again, amd even if not with usual confidence is better than slicing it all the time as he was doing weeks ago. Forehand is improving. Hope I was being pessimistic before -- or that it had some physical explanation.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,820
Points
113
He was defensive. Moxie. Of course, things are not always black and white, but mostly, yes. But it was smart defense, to begin with. And relentless energy.

And you gotta give a huge amount of credit to a guy who wins in a TB after having 5x1, match points, playing against the new wonder of the tour, against the crowd, to get to a round of a big tournament he is not used too, not long after coming back from injury. It takes nerves of steel and he showed it.
I do give all credit to Nishioka. Anyone paying attention has known that he's talented and dangerous. I didn't see the first 2 sets, so I was only parroting the commies, but I said that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrzz