Indian Wells, BNP Paribas Open, Masters 1000

[El Dude]

Well slams, but masters lead is still good.

Maybe I’m biased, but I don’t think the Masters lead has much weight to it. A bit, but not much, more like total WTFs - and nothing like Slams or total titles.

 

[Moxie]

You know it does make me wonder....I try to be (perhaps overly) egalitarian about tennis fans, assuming that fans of different players aren't any better or worse than fans of other players. But on the other hand, while there are almost all types of fans of every player, I don't see a certain breed as fans of Roger or Novak. I don't know why Rafa attracts a kind of fringe lunacy that the others don't, at least to the same degree.

You've forgotten Mastoor, I guess. And Asmodeus. Amongst others. It's not restricted to Rafa fans.

 

[Moxie]

Maybe I’m biased, but I don’t think the Masters lead has much weight to it. A bit, but not much, more like total WTFs - and nothing like Slams or total titles.

Surely it has some, but it can't have the same weight as Slams or WTFs, as they're rated higher in points. But, in fairness, it's a tick in the Nadal column, so no reason to sneeze at it, either. (I realize you're not. General comment.)

 

[Moxie]

Exciting match from delPo and Kohly, btw. Anyone watch?

 

[Moxie]

Nothing against her but all is well when she's miserable on here. Means bad things for Rafa, good things for Roger, or both

I take your point, @DarthFed, but I'm not miserable. If I were, I wouldn't post. Just enjoying the scrap. Though I can't wait until Rafa turns the tables on Roger again to see how you react.

 

[El Dude]

Surely it has some, but it can't have the same weight as Slams or WTFs, as they're rated higher in points. But, in fairness, it's a tick in the Nadal column, so no reason to sneeze at it, either. (I realize you're not. General comment.)

Sure, it is something. It is just not something that excites me, or that I think is all that important - in a similar way that whether a player won 6 (Roger) or 5 (Novak) WTFs makes that much of a difference, if any, when looking at career greatness. I think specific quantity only really matters with Slams, titles, YE1, and weeks at #1. But with WTFs, Masters, ATP 500s, ATP 250s...it is more about approximations. But that's just my opinion, of course.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sure, it is something. It is just not something that excites me, or that I think is all that important - in a similar way that whether a player won 6 (Roger) or 5 (Novak) WTFs makes that much of a difference, if any, when looking at career greatness. I think specific quantity only really matters with Slams, titles, YE1, and weeks at #1. But with WTFs, Masters, ATP 500s, ATP 250s...it is more about approximations. But that's just my opinion, of course.

Nowadays, ATP has come up with a measure of Big titles (GS + WTF + ATP 1000). At one time, they were touting Novak was the leader in that. I believe Fed would have got the lead back in that.

The no of big titles is probably of more significance than the total number of titles. This is especially true when you thin about Connors and Roger and try to compare them based on total number of titles.

 

[Moxie]

Sure, it is something. It is just not something that excites me, or that I think is all that important - in a similar way that whether a player won 6 (Roger) or 5 (Novak) WTFs makes that much of a difference, if any, when looking at career greatness. I think specific quantity only really matters with Slams, titles, YE1, and weeks at #1. But with WTFs, Masters, ATP 500s, ATP 250s...it is more about approximations. But that's just my opinion, of course.

Still, you folks like to talk about beating the field. The thing about the MS1000s is that you have to beat an elite field in a really short amount of time. That's where they differ.

 

[Andy22]

Potro, wins he's 10th match in a row, the match was good to watch needs to start better in the semis vs. Raonic should be a good test for him.

 

[DarthFed]

I take your point, @DarthFed, but I'm not miserable. If I were, I wouldn't post. Just enjoying the scrap. Though I can't wait until Rafa turns the tables on Roger again to see how you react.

I look forward to more meetings on fast courts, that pathetic head to head still needs to get better.

 

[Moxie]

I look forward to more meetings on fast courts, that pathetic head to head still needs to get better.

Good luck with that. Ranked 1 and 2 again, they are far from meeting each other. I'd like to see Rafa skunk Roger a few more times, but Roger's chances of getting much closer are small.

 

[herios]

Happy to see Milos in some sort of form.

Me too. I hope he stays healthy and the results will come.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

No that we nadal fans really care about, is the French open federer can have number one, plus even if he wins he's still be behind the great for overall masters titles.

But Federer leads Rafa in the overall ATP 500 titles. That is the real thing that matters. :lulz2:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Me too. I hope he stays healthy and the results will come.

I refuse to join the "me too" movement. I was relatively unperturbed for the last one year or so. Now, I have to put up with him.

 

[DarthFed]

Good luck with that. Ranked 1 and 2 again, they are far from meeting each other. I'd like to see Rafa skunk Roger a few more times, but Roger's chances of getting much closer are small.

Yes, I could see your boy dodging more fast court duels. Roger should still be good for another 3 years, let's see how your grinder holds up.

 

[herios]

I refuse to join the "me too" movement. I was relatively unperturbed for the last one year or so. Now, I have to put up with him.

You hoped he will just vanish, but life is never perfect.
I would like to see Milos beating Fedexpress a few times, before the Superstar hangs up his racquet.

 

[Moxie]

Yes, I could see your boy dodging more fast court duels. Roger should still be good for another 3 years, let's see how your grinder holds up.

And your boy dodging clay. Love you, dude, mean it.

 

[El Dude]

Still, you folks like to talk about beating the field. The thing about the MS1000s is that you have to beat an elite field in a really short amount of time. That's where they differ.

"You folks?" This is exactly why I dislike Fedal debates. It is pure tribalism.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that Masters aren't significant. I just don't see looking at their number alone to be hugely significant.

 

[DarthFed]

And your boy dodging clay. Love you, dude, mean it.

They've played 15 times there, 3 on grass, 6 indoors, and then the rest heavily towards slow/medium hards with a few fast hard courts sprinkled in.

 

[Moxie]

"You folks?" This is exactly why I dislike Fedal debates. It is pure tribalism.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that Masters aren't significant. I just don't see looking at their number alone to be hugely significant.

Lordy, lordy...I make a word choice, and you go off. A lot of the Fedal conversation is about how they've done against the "field." I'm saying that MS1000s are a good measure v. the field. I think you can get that.