Hoops - NBA/Basketball Talk

[DarthFed]

RE: Obsessed Winners, Are They Accepted in Tennis Culture?

Lebron averaged 25, 11 and 6 in the Finals last year. Hardly a disaster especially with pretty much no help.

If you look at it in a statistical vacuum, yes. But looking at it that simplistically is absurd - and even then I can make the case quite easily that his numbers weren't all that impressive.

First of all - he is playing 40+ minutes per game, the ball is constantly in his hands, and he is an extremely gifted athlete and basketball talent. Furthermore, compared to the unimpressive Spurs roster, his athleticism is on another planet. Yes, he has no supporting cast in Miami, but the flip side of that is that on the big stage, the stage is his completely. He can shoot with no restrictions and do whatever he wants unrestricted. When you take all of that into consideration - combined with how officials favor superstars - is averaging 25 per game against the little D-III superstars of the Spurs all that big a deal?

Please.

LeBron's performance against the Spurs last year was, for the most part, cowardly. In game 1, he was average. In game 2, he was okay. In game 3, his attitude was pitiful, as the Spurs lit them up. Game 4 was the D-Wade show. Game 5 - again, LeBron was lackluster. Game 6 - he did much less than he could have until the 4th quarter, and even then he got a little lucky late in the game. Game 7 was really his only virtuoso performance, and if we are honest about it, that game never should have even happened.

And so your point is that Kobe deserves credit because he played like the best player in the world multiple games last year. That's all well and good, does that mean we give a % of best player out.

No, but in the context of your point about Jordan thriving at 35, this is entirely relevant. So Kobe wasn't an outright #1 best in the game at 34. Does that mean it is irrelevant to bring up that he was 2nd or 3rd best, and at times the best?

Not at all.

J.R. Smith is nothing bro, the last thing I'd call him is hesitant.

Then you're thinking of the Denver JR. The 2013-2014 JR has been extremely repressed and reluctant to play freely. You must not be watching many Knicks games. JR is not doing the catch and shoot that made him sublime to watch in Denver. He has, all too often, been catching and holding and hesitating. I saw this up close when I attended the Knicks @ Wizards game on November 23rd, and I have seen it in numerous televised games.

Do you not notice him jacking up tons of shots at a low %?

He is not shooting even 20% of the number of shots that he would be shooting if he was allowed and encouraged to play at his natural pace. His low percentage is more so the result of listening to his stupid coaches, who tell him to "let the game come to him" and be (excessively) patient. He does this, and doesn't shoot, and then the coaches get mad at him for not producing, and then he forces up some low-percentage trash at times. If he just played to catch and shoot, and catch and go, and make quick-hitting plays, his percentage would go up and he would be utterly untouchable.

He has shot a low % his entire career.

Not nearly as low as this year. And shooting about 45% from the field ain't that bad. If Chris Paul does it, we focus on the shots he makes. If JR does it, we focus on the ones he doesn't.

Double standards galore.

If Melo wasn't there to hog up even more shots it'd be ridiculous.

Oh really? What a ridiculous statement on so many levels.

After Melo was traded from Denver, everyone thought that they weren't going to be very good, but as I and a good friend of mine predicted, they were even better. They went 9-2 and then 15-4 right after the trade, and everyone was puzzled. In reality, there was nothing puzzling about it. Denver in that season had the most talented NBA roster, top to bottom, of the last 20 years and George Karl screwed it up in the playoffs. They were great individual players and they knew how to play team ball. It was awesome to watch.

As this relates to JR, the team as a whole was praised at that time for not having "sticky fingers" - which was a reference to the era of Melo iso ball. JR's passing has always been totally underappreciated. In both Denver and NY, he has repeatedly made excellent swing passes to shooters such as Afflalo and Novak. He also has executed the pick and roll to perfection with Nene, Birdman, Amare, and Chandler. In fact, it is no stretch at all to say that JR passes on the pick roll as well as anyone ever has, except maybe John Stockton. I have so many plays recorded on tape and in my memory to this effect that I am 100% certain of it.

Of course, it never gets noticed that JR passes so well, because people are so fixated on the tattoos and the demeanor of JR Smith. They can't get past that to see any real substance.

He is jacking up 6 treys a game this year at under 35% rate. I was recently at a Bucks-Knicks game where he jacked up 17 treys and made 5. The guy shoots 42% for his career and has no all around game to speak of. Passes as well on the pick and roll as anyone? Is this a joke?

As for Kobe at 34 the bottom line is he wasn't close to being the best player in the world and he wasn't close to Jordan's level at 35. Jordan at 35 is basically Kobe at 30, even better! I will agree with you that Lebron was sub par most of that series but hardly awful. Lebron vs. the Mavs in that finals was a true choke of a performance.

The Spurs have been one of the best defensive teams for 15 years, a team that actually knows something about the fundamentals of the game. They are also better than anyone at keying on a team's superstar and limiting his impact as much as possible. It's no surprise you can't stand them since you think the NBA is all about speed, jumping ability, and acrobatic dunks/layups.

 

[calitennis127]

RE: Obsessed Winners, Are They Accepted in Tennis Culture?

Lebron averaged 25, 11 and 6 in the Finals last year. Hardly a disaster especially with pretty much no help.

If you look at it in a statistical vacuum, yes. But looking at it that simplistically is absurd - and even then I can make the case quite easily that his numbers weren't all that impressive.

First of all - he is playing 40+ minutes per game, the ball is constantly in his hands, and he is an extremely gifted athlete and basketball talent. Furthermore, compared to the unimpressive Spurs roster, his athleticism is on another planet. Yes, he has no supporting cast in Miami, but the flip side of that is that on the big stage, the stage is his completely. He can shoot with no restrictions and do whatever he wants unrestricted. When you take all of that into consideration - combined with how officials favor superstars - is averaging 25 per game against the little D-III superstars of the Spurs all that big a deal?

Please.

LeBron's performance against the Spurs last year was, for the most part, cowardly. In game 1, he was average. In game 2, he was okay. In game 3, his attitude was pitiful, as the Spurs lit them up. Game 4 was the D-Wade show. Game 5 - again, LeBron was lackluster. Game 6 - he did much less than he could have until the 4th quarter, and even then he got a little lucky late in the game. Game 7 was really his only virtuoso performance, and if we are honest about it, that game never should have even happened.

And so your point is that Kobe deserves credit because he played like the best player in the world multiple games last year. That's all well and good, does that mean we give a % of best player out.

No, but in the context of your point about Jordan thriving at 35, this is entirely relevant. So Kobe wasn't an outright #1 best in the game at 34. Does that mean it is irrelevant to bring up that he was 2nd or 3rd best, and at times the best?

Not at all.

J.R. Smith is nothing bro, the last thing I'd call him is hesitant.

Then you're thinking of the Denver JR. The 2013-2014 JR has been extremely repressed and reluctant to play freely. You must not be watching many Knicks games. JR is not doing the catch and shoot that made him sublime to watch in Denver. He has, all too often, been catching and holding and hesitating. I saw this up close when I attended the Knicks @ Wizards game on November 23rd, and I have seen it in numerous televised games.

Do you not notice him jacking up tons of shots at a low %?

He is not shooting even 20% of the number of shots that he would be shooting if he was allowed and encouraged to play at his natural pace. His low percentage is more so the result of listening to his stupid coaches, who tell him to "let the game come to him" and be (excessively) patient. He does this, and doesn't shoot, and then the coaches get mad at him for not producing, and then he forces up some low-percentage trash at times. If he just played to catch and shoot, and catch and go, and make quick-hitting plays, his percentage would go up and he would be utterly untouchable.

He has shot a low % his entire career.

Not nearly as low as this year. And shooting about 45% from the field ain't that bad. If Chris Paul does it, we focus on the shots he makes. If JR does it, we focus on the ones he doesn't.

Double standards galore.

If Melo wasn't there to hog up even more shots it'd be ridiculous.

Oh really? What a ridiculous statement on so many levels.

After Melo was traded from Denver, everyone thought that they weren't going to be very good, but as I and a good friend of mine predicted, they were even better. They went 9-2 and then 15-4 right after the trade, and everyone was puzzled. In reality, there was nothing puzzling about it. Denver in that season had the most talented NBA roster, top to bottom, of the last 20 years and George Karl screwed it up in the playoffs. They were great individual players and they knew how to play team ball. It was awesome to watch.

As this relates to JR, the team as a whole was praised at that time for not having "sticky fingers" - which was a reference to the era of Melo iso ball. JR's passing has always been totally underappreciated. In both Denver and NY, he has repeatedly made excellent swing passes to shooters such as Afflalo and Novak. He also has executed the pick and roll to perfection with Nene, Birdman, Amare, and Chandler. In fact, it is no stretch at all to say that JR passes on the pick roll as well as anyone ever has, except maybe John Stockton. I have so many plays recorded on tape and in my memory to this effect that I am 100% certain of it.

Of course, it never gets noticed that JR passes so well, because people are so fixated on the tattoos and the demeanor of JR Smith. They can't get past that to see any real substance.

He is jacking up 6 treys a game this year at under 35% rate. I was recently at a Bucks-Knicks game where he jacked up 17 treys and made 5. The guy shoots 42% for his career and has no all around game to speak of. Passes as well on the pick and roll as anyone? Is this a joke?

As for Kobe at 34 the bottom line is he wasn't close to being the best player in the world and he wasn't close to Jordan's level at 35. Jordan at 35 is basically Kobe at 30, even better! I will agree with you that Lebron was sub par most of that series but hardly awful. Lebron vs. the Mavs in that finals was a true choke of a performance.

The Spurs have been one of the best defensive teams for 15 years, a team that actually knows something about the fundamentals of the game. They are also better than anyone at keying on a team's superstar and limiting his impact as much as possible. It's no surprise you can't stand them since you think the NBA is all about speed, jumping ability, and acrobatic dunks/layups.

Kobe - unlike LeBron - has humiliated the Spurs time after time in the playoffs. Durant and Harden made them look like the Division III basketball team that they are in 2012. Memphis owned them three years ago with Mayo and Randolph. If you play even mildly smart and you have decent athleticism, the Spurs are not competition.

For LeBron to be as timid and shy as he was in the two series he has played the Spurs is sorry. He should have averaged at least 35 per game on those losers. At least.

The fact that coaches are too stupid to defend Popovich's BS offense has no bearing on whether LeBron should drop 40 a night on them.

As for JR, that Milwaukee game was a huge outlier. That was nowhere close to the norm. And 6 3's per game is nothing.

I like players that integrate high athleticism with high basketball IQ - players like Randy Foye, JR Smith, Ricky Davis, Amare Stoudemire, Kenyon Martin, and Chase Budinger. (Budinger does not deserve to be grouped any differently than those guys, as I mistakenly characterized it, because he plays just like them in this fundamental sense.)

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Obsessed Winners, Are They Accepted in Tennis Culture?

How many times has Kobe humiliated San Antonio without Shaq? I don't even want to picture what someone like Lebron could do if he had a big time post threat. It'd be a scary proposition if you couldn't focus your whole interior defense on stopping Lebron. It's funny that you don't seem to be too much a fan of Lebron seeing as he is the ultimate freak athletically. I bet it has to do with him being good at some of the "boring and useless" things in basketball like passing the ball, playing defense, etc. The man has off the charts basketball IQ on top of it. I bet he wishes he could play like J.R. Smith, Ricky Davis, etc. :snigger

The fact of the matter is that the Spurs have won 4 titles and came within a "certain type of" hair from #5. They must be doing something right. They are still an excellent defensive team despite being ancient.

6 treys isn't a ton but it is far from hesitant or having a leash on the dog. J.R. Smith has never even been close to an all star, not once in his career. The last thing I'd say about guys like him and Ricky Davis is that they have good basketball IQ. They are just volume shooters with above average athleticism.

 

[calitennis127]

RE: Obsessed Winners, Are They Accepted in Tennis Culture?

How many times has Kobe humiliated San Antonio without Shaq? I don't even want to picture what someone like Lebron could do if he had a big time post threat. It'd be a scary proposition if you couldn't focus your whole interior defense on stopping Lebron. It's funny that you don't seem to be too much a fan of Lebron seeing as he is the ultimate freak athletically. I bet it has to do with him being good at some of the "boring and useless" things in basketball like passing the ball, playing defense, etc. The man has off the charts basketball IQ on top of it. I bet he wishes he could play like J.R. Smith, Ricky Davis, etc. :snigger

The fact of the matter is that the Spurs have won 4 titles and came within a "certain type of" hair from #5. They must be doing something right. They are still an excellent defensive team despite being ancient.

6 treys isn't a ton but it is far from hesitant or having a leash on the dog. J.R. Smith has never even been close to an all star, not once in his career. The last thing I'd say about guys like him and Ricky Davis is that they have good basketball IQ. They are just volume shooters with above average athleticism.

The fact that you don't acknowledge JR's passing ability shows you really don't know basketball very much.

Like I said - I think very highly of LeBron as an all-around player. But at times you need to score, and when you're playing a joke of a team like San Antonio, you should drop 40 no problem if you're LeBron James.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The Knicks will stand a better chance of qualifying for RG in May than advancing far into the playoffs, they are not a very smart basketball team and their glaring weaknesses will get expose against a well coached veteran team like the Heat and Indy .

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Obsessed Winners, Are They Accepted in Tennis Culture?

How many times has Kobe humiliated San Antonio without Shaq? I don't even want to picture what someone like Lebron could do if he had a big time post threat. It'd be a scary proposition if you couldn't focus your whole interior defense on stopping Lebron. It's funny that you don't seem to be too much a fan of Lebron seeing as he is the ultimate freak athletically. I bet it has to do with him being good at some of the "boring and useless" things in basketball like passing the ball, playing defense, etc. The man has off the charts basketball IQ on top of it. I bet he wishes he could play like J.R. Smith, Ricky Davis, etc. :snigger

The fact of the matter is that the Spurs have won 4 titles and came within a "certain type of" hair from #5. They must be doing something right. They are still an excellent defensive team despite being ancient.

6 treys isn't a ton but it is far from hesitant or having a leash on the dog. J.R. Smith has never even been close to an all star, not once in his career. The last thing I'd say about guys like him and Ricky Davis is that they have good basketball IQ. They are just volume shooters with above average athleticism.

The fact that you don't acknowledge JR's passing ability shows you really don't know basketball very much.

Like I said - I think very highly of LeBron as an all-around player. But at times you need to score, and when you're playing a joke of a team like San Antonio, you should drop 40 no problem if you're LeBron James.

J.R. Smith must be an amazing passer with his career average of 2 assists per game. Your points are so laughable that it is always clownish when you talk about other people not knowing a sport too well.

Consistently dropping 40 is not part of Lebron's game because that usually means the team isn't too involved. I do agree with you though at times he should look to score more than he does. The NBA finals last year where he rarely had anyone doing much was an example of where he should have looked to be more aggressive than he was. In game 1 that series he barely shot the ball much but had a triple double and they lost at home, game 6 4th quarter and game 7 he looked to take over and with better success.

 

[DarthFed]

Since we are on the topic of bball and specifically MJ, here is an interesting article: http://bladebrownshow.com/2014/01/08/untold-story-real-reason-michael-jordan-retired-1993/

 

[kskate2]

Good news. Gasol is back w/ the Griz and Tyson is back w/ the Knicks.

 

[calitennis127]

The Knicks will stand a better chance of qualifying for RG in May than advancing far into the playoffs, they are not a very smart basketball team and their glaring weaknesses will get expose against a well coached veteran team like the Heat and Indy .

Yeah, Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier and Paul George are really smart basketball players.

 

[I.Haychew]

Vandeweghe, Thompson, English, Anthony, etc...whatever...Lafayette lever = best nugget ever!

 

[the AntiPusher]

The Knicks will stand a better chance of qualifying for RG in May than advancing far into the playoffs, they are not a very smart basketball team and their glaring weaknesses will get expose against a well coached veteran team like the Heat and Indy .

Yeah, Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier and Paul George are really smart basketball players.

being well coached and smart basketball players are mutually exclusive. It takes discipline players to buy into a system

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I am watching Raptors-Clippers right now and folks, find some highlights and watch it. This is one fun match 102-102, 9 minutes to go, T.Ross and Crawford having a shoot-out, with T.Ross at 43 and Crawford at 33. T.Ross is becoming an amazing player fast...

 

[DarthFed]

It's a little early to hand out the MVP award but if they voted today it'd be Durant in a landslide. His play this month has been absurd.

 

[I.Haychew]

The NBA players of today are nothing short of amazing, at least offensively. All they need is a half inch of space in order to drain a shot from practically anywhere on the court.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's a little early to hand out the MVP award but if they voted today it'd be Durant in a landslide. His play this month has been absurd.

...and he just sunk in a game-winning jumper last night. The guy is the MVP, for my money, no question.

 

[DarthFed]

It's a little early to hand out the MVP award but if they voted today it'd be Durant in a landslide. His play this month has been absurd.

...and he just sunk in a game-winning jumper last night. The guy is the MVP, for my money, no question.

Yep, statistically he is and then when you add in the fact he is carrying them without Westbrook it is an easy pick. I wonder what his stats for January are, it is likely one of the best months in NBA history, no exaggeration.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

It's a little early to hand out the MVP award but if they voted today it'd be Durant in a landslide. His play this month has been absurd.

...and he just sunk in a game-winning jumper last night. The guy is the MVP, for my money, no question.

Yep, statistically he is and then when you add in the fact he is carrying them without Westbrook it is an easy pick. I wonder what his stats for January are, it is likely one of the best months in NBA history, no exaggeration.

You guys both know that the MVP is and should be JR Smith...every year, even after retirement...:lolz:

 

[DarthFed]

The most talented player in the league might yet lead the Knicks to the #8 spot in the mighty East. If that isn't MVP worthy what is??

 

[kskate2]

The most talented player in the league might yet lead the Knicks to the #8 spot in the mighty East. If that isn't MVP worthy what is??

He also might get traded. Let's see if anyone wants him.

 

[kskate2]

D Money and OKC are torching Miami on the road...