Find a Coach for Andy

[Kieran]

I've found a coach for Andy : Sean Connery

They'd fall out over Scottish independence, I think. The one who pays his taxes is not in favour, but the one who's a professional Jock from his tax haven in the sun, is in favour...

 

[tented]

"Andy Murray is an all time great when he can get it together emotionally and mentally, says Billie Jean King"

 

[isabelle]

BJK didn't watch OG's final ???? He had a lot of pressure on his back but played like a real champ to win his Gold medal...don't agree with BJK at all

 

[Federberg]

I think BJK's comment is rather silly to be honest. An all time great doesn't allow their emotional or mental state stop them. You might say that's a basic requirement to enter that exclusive club. Good grief.. how many players do we all know who would be all time greats if they could just sort out their emotional and mental states!

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think BJK's comment is rather silly to be honest. An all time great doesn't allow their emotional or mental state stop them.

See Borg, Bjorn. His emotional and mental state stopped him from playing tennis altogether. And for on court examples, I'd even bring up Djokovic. Both are absolutely all-time greats nevertheless

An all-time great is simply measured by his accomplishments. I don't really care how Murray acts on court. Though I do take issue with him being labelled an all-time great so soon.

 

[Federberg]

^I agree about Murray. As for Borg and Novak... their emotional and mental states didn't stop them from achieving great things. Everyone has emotional and mental let downs, what makes you great is your ability to overcome these limitations and still achieve. Murray doesn't do that enough, and certainly his achievements are no where near all time great status

 

[brokenshoelace]

^I agree about Murray. As for Borg and Novak... their emotional and mental states didn't stop them from achieving great things. Everyone has emotional and mental let downs, what makes you great is your ability to overcome these limitations and still achieve. Murray doesn't do that enough, and certainly his achievements are no where near all time great status

Let's get Murray out of the way as far as accomplishments go, because we both agree he's not an all-time great yet.

Now, on the mental/emotional side, you raise a good point. It's true that Djokovic, in spite of often suffering mental and emotional lapses, has also often overcome them (be it within matches, or phases, or sometimes, a whole year -- 2011). You're right, very few players don't suffer emotional/mental lapses. The likes of Sampras, Nadal, or Borg in his heyday (and yes, Federer too, even though Darth will shoot me) are rare in that in the grand scheme of things, they very, VERY rarely let that affect them.

However, what I don't agree on is the assessment regarding Murray (not the accomplishments part of course, but the mental part). Yes, he can be negative on the court. But honestly, I never looked at him and thought: "this guy would achieve far more had it not been for mental/emotional lapses." I think the fact that he's animated and talks to himself actually gives him an unfairly bad rap in that regard. I don't recall many matches, or tournaments that I felt Andy blew due to an emotional meltdown. The cursing and frustration often happens when he's getting outplayed in the first place, and things are looking grim.

I think sometimes reality is simpler than our over-analysis tends to suggest. I'm not saying Murray couldn't have done better in certain situations had he been in better mental shape. But that applies to most players.

To me, Murray's initial struggles to get over the hump (meaning winning his first major) were mostly tennis related. He was too passive in key moments and paid the price repeatedly, especially against guys like Federer and Nadal (or even Roddick at Wimbledon in 2009) who are way to good to lose to pure defense. That to me was the constant theme in Murray's career from 2008-2010.

In 2011, he reached at least the semis of all 4 majors. Ran into Djokovic in Australia, who was playing some of the best tennis in history (no exaggeration), Nadal at Roland Garros (nothing further needs to be said), and then Nadal again at Wimbledon and the US Open. Nerves did get the better of him on a key point in the second set at Wimby (he was up one set to love and missed a crucial break point opportunity in the second, the match changed from there), but Nadal's level on the whole was superb in that match, and even Murray himself had to concede as much. Their US Open semi is an example people often bring up to highlight Murray's negative body language, and on that front I can't disagree, but again, it's not like a more positive attitude would guarantee a win against an opponent bossing him around the entire match.

2012 was a terrific year for Murray, no questions asked. He joined forces with Lendl, had that epic 5 setter with Novak in Australia that he very nearly won (no regrets there, it just hinged on a few points), skipped the FO due to injury, was outplaying Roger at Wimbledon before the roof closed and Roger turned into Jesus mode, and won the US Open. That's a great year by anyone's standards.

2013 was another phenomenal year, obviously, which included the Wimbledon win. However, he unfortunately suffered a back injury and hasn't been the same since that surgery. He's struggled this entire year to get back to where he was, and I think we're being too harsh if we're blaming him for that. People brought up Nadal's comeback last year, but each injury is different.

So while I'm not claiming this to be the definitive overlook on his career thus far, it does seem to me that people are way too harsh on Murray, and far too trigger-happy with the narratives they create.

 

[nehmeth]

"Andy Murray is an all time great when he can get it together emotionally and mentally, says Billie Jean King"

:lolz: :laydownlaughing

In that case, so is Safin, so is Nalbandian, so is....

:nono

 

[Federberg]

^I agree about Murray. As for Borg and Novak... their emotional and mental states didn't stop them from achieving great things. Everyone has emotional and mental let downs, what makes you great is your ability to overcome these limitations and still achieve. Murray doesn't do that enough, and certainly his achievements are no where near all time great status

Let's get Murray out of the way as far as accomplishments go, because we both agree he's not an all-time great yet.

Now, on the mental/emotional side, you raise a good point. It's true that Djokovic, in spite of often suffering mental and emotional lapses, has also often overcome them (be it within matches, or phases, or sometimes, a whole year -- 2011). You're right, very few players don't suffer emotional/mental lapses. The likes of Sampras, Nadal, or Borg in his heyday (and yes, Federer too, even though Darth will shoot me) are rare in that in the grand scheme of things, they very, VERY rarely let that affect them.

However, what I don't agree on is the assessment regarding Murray (not the accomplishments part of course, but the mental part). Yes, he can be negative on the court. But honestly, I never looked at him and thought: "this guy would achieve far more had it not been for mental/emotional lapses." I think the fact that he's animated and talks to himself actually gives him an unfairly bad rap in that regard. I don't recall many matches, or tournaments that I felt Andy blew due to an emotional meltdown. The cursing and frustration often happens when he's getting outplayed in the first place, and things are looking grim.

I think sometimes reality is simpler than our over-analysis tends to suggest. I'm not saying Murray couldn't have done better in certain situations had he been in better mental shape. But that applies to most players.

To me, Murray's initial struggles to get over the hump (meaning winning his first major) were mostly tennis related. He was too passive in key moments and paid the price repeatedly, especially against guys like Federer and Nadal (or even Roddick at Wimbledon in 2009) who are way to good to lose to pure defense. That to me was the constant theme in Murray's career from 2008-2010.

In 2011, he reached at least the semis of all 4 majors. Ran into Djokovic in Australia, who was playing some of the best tennis in history (no exaggeration), Nadal at Roland Garros (nothing further needs to be said), and then Nadal again at Wimbledon and the US Open. Nerves did get the better of him on a key point in the second set at Wimby (he was up one set to love and missed a crucial break point opportunity in the second, the match changed from there), but Nadal's level on the whole was superb in that match, and even Murray himself had to concede as much. Their US Open semi is an example people often bring up to highlight Murray's negative body language, and on that front I can't disagree, but again, it's not like a more positive attitude would guarantee a win against an opponent bossing him around the entire match.

2012 was a terrific year for Murray, no questions asked. He joined forces with Lendl, had that epic 5 setter with Novak in Australia that he very nearly won (no regrets there, it just hinged on a few points), skipped the FO due to injury, was outplaying Roger at Wimbledon before the roof closed and Roger turned into Jesus mode, and won the US Open. That's a great year by anyone's standards.

2013 was another phenomenal year, obviously, which included the Wimbledon win. However, he unfortunately suffered a back injury and hasn't been the same since that surgery. He's struggled this entire year to get back to where he was, and I think we're being too harsh if we're blaming him for that. People brought up Nadal's comeback last year, but each injury is different.

So while I'm not claiming this to be the definitive overlook on his career thus far, it does seem to me that people are way too harsh on Murray, and far too trigger-happy with the narratives they create.

It seems my comments weren't clear. I'm not saying that Murray's problems are to do with his emotional or mental state. I agree with you.. he's just not good enough for the all time great category. My issue with BJK's statement is that she says if he had better control of his mental/emotional state he would achieve more. I think it's a silly statement. Frankly there are many hugely talented tennis players for whom that statement could be made. Monfils is a classic example, but it's neither here nor there. An ability to control your mental/ emotional state sufficiently to achieve wins is part and parcel of what being a great sportsman is. It's like saying if Brad Gilbert was more talented he could have been an all time great. Well... duh! :snigger

 

[isabelle]

David Cameron !!

 

[Kieran]

When I saw this thread was bumped, I thought it was cos it had been renamed "Find a Country for Andy..." :laydownlaughing

 

[isabelle]

When I saw this thread was bumped, I thought it was cos it had been renamed "Find a Country for Andy..." :laydownlaughing

Isn't it the same ???

 

[tented]

So, does anyone think Amelie still has a job? Or will Andy not make such a change based on one (nightmarish) match?

 

[Kieran]

She's not the man for the job, buddy. She's out of her depth. Nothing to do with gender. And Andy is out of his depth at the minute, too. I blame him, but I accept he was thrown off by the back injury, and Lendl's decision to leave. Even still, that's in the past. Perhaps he could feel grieved that Lendl didn't stay loyal, and he's now touting his gun for hire elsewhere, but still, Andy needs a firm hand - and soon...

 

[nehmeth]

So, does anyone think Amelie still has a job? Or will Andy not make such a change based on one (nightmarish) match?

Andy can spin it as the year he came back from back surgery, and maybe there is some truth in that. Still he's 0-4 against Novak and was humiliated by Federer.

Someone is going to get thrown under the bus eventually...

 

[Denis]

She's not the man for the job, buddy. She's out of her depth. Nothing to do with gender. And Andy is out of his depth at the minute, too. I blame him, but I accept he was thrown off by the back injury, and Lendl's decision to leave. Even still, that's in the past. Perhaps he could feel grieved that Lendl didn't stay loyal, and he's now touting his gun for hire elsewhere, but still, Andy needs a firm hand - and soon...

And your argument that she is not doing a good job is solely based on Murray's results I assume? Or do you actually know more.

 

[Kieran]

It's a results based game, Denis. His are going backwards, not the direction they should be...

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Andy is established enough in the sport that he can only blame himself for poor results. We can put some of this year down to the back injury, and the blow of losing Lendl, but most of the blame has to go to him. To be fair to Mauresmo, I do feel as if Murray has played some better tennis in the second half of the year, but I don't know if she's the kind of personality to push him back into the more aggressive and clinical style of play that brought him success with Ivan.

I don't feel that Andy should need a hard personality to force him back into playing his best tennis, but if that's the way he finds his greatest success, that's what he has to do.

I don't think that Mauresmo will get him back where he needs to be, not because she's a woman or an inefficient coach, but because it seems to require a very specific type of personality to be the right guiding hand for Andy, and she doesn't fit the mould.

Perhaps this just has been a bad year for him, and maybe he'll come back into the fold next year with Amelie at his back, but if that's not the case and there's an alternative, more Lendl-esque coach available early in 2015, it would probably be wise to make the switch.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I am willing to give it more time (because I am not Andy and it is not my ranking and money).
Here is the thing: I need to see something tangible. Every player and coach knows the X's and O's of tennis, the point patterns, when to go cross court, when to go DTL etc...But what I saw from Lendl's tenure with Murray was a much improved forehand and visible improvement on the mental side in tight situations.

Now Murray has 6-7 weeks of time in his hands to first relax, and then work on weaknesses. IF Murray comes back beginning of next season and he STILL has that horrible second serve, I blame Amelie for it, not Murray.

 

[Front242]

You can't blame the coach if the player isn't doing well imo. Maybe her ideas are good and his execution is at fault.