Fedalovic Wars

[Kieran]

Craig Tiley has proven himself to be a Djokovic booster and apologist. He's gone farther than a tournament director may have been expected to, a few times. As to the sleeve that Novak is currently sporting, I'll remind you of this old chestnut:

View attachment 8140

2014: Djokovic lost to Federer in the MC SF with his arm heavily bandaged. Talked of injury. Even still, he beat Nadal in the final of Rome. This photo was taken before the final of RG that year, and posted by Djokovic or his team a couple of nights before the final. Even though the arm had not been bandaged the entire fortnight. Gamesmanship? Prophylactic excuse-making? These forums were quite curious, at the time. (I remember Broken saying at the time that he knows chess, and clearly they weren't playing chess. This twitter post had some purpose, but it wasn't to show what chess geniuses they were, according to him.)

In 2014, Novak went 61-8, won 7 titles, including the AO, W, and the YEC. He lost RG in the final to Nadal, and in SF of the USO. A pretty banner year.

To @Ricardo's point, sure Nadal has worked through injury even to win some titles, including RG last year, but it always comes with consequences. Then he gets laid up for longish-to-long periods of time. Novak has missed exactly one Major due to injury, when he closed down his season in 2017 due to the elbow. Generally, he complains about, or insinuates injuries, but suffers nothing for them in the short-/long-term, or even the next tournament.

I hope the admins won't find this too distracting to the topic. We are discussing Novak's presumptive right arm issue, and how seriously to take it.

The only thing I’ll add to this is that it wasn’t Ricardo, it was Roberto. By otherwise, I agree. When he won Oz in 2021 I think he did something similar, loudly carrying around a rumour of an abdomen injury, which healed miraculously when required. He addressed this himself:

“I know there’s been a lot of speculation, people questioning whether I’m injured, how can I recover so quickly, it’s impossible to do that,” Djokovic said. “I get it. I mean, look, everyone is entitled for their own opinion, and everybody has the freedom and the right to say what they want, criticise others. I just felt like it was a bit unfair at times. But, hey, it’s not the first nor the last time.”

It’s not far fetched to see all these ‘injuries’ which never seem to actually hinder him as being strategically placed to hinder his opponents through distraction and time wasting with fake MTO’s, and nothing more…

 

[Moxie]

The only thing I’ll add to this is that it wasn’t Ricardo, it was Roberto.

Thanks, I fixed it. I tend to conflate them a bit.

 

[roberto]

Craig Tiley has proven himself to be a Djokovic booster and apologist. He's gone farther than a tournament director may have been expected to, a few times. As to the sleeve that Novak is currently sporting, I'll remind you of this old chestnut:

View attachment 8140

2014: Djokovic lost to Federer in the MC SF with his arm heavily bandaged. Talked of injury. Even still, he beat Nadal in the final of Rome. This photo was taken before the final of RG that year, and posted by Djokovic or his team a couple of nights before the final. Even though the arm had not been bandaged the entire fortnight. Gamesmanship? Prophylactic excuse-making? These forums were quite curious, at the time. (I remember Broken saying at the time that he knows chess, and clearly they weren't playing chess. This twitter post had some purpose, but it wasn't to show what chess geniuses they were, according to him.)

In 2014, Novak went 61-8, won 7 titles, including the AO, W, and the YEC. He lost RG in the final to Nadal, and in SF of the USO. A pretty banner year.

To @roberto's point, sure Nadal has worked through injury even to win some titles, including RG last year, but it always comes with consequences. Then he gets laid up for longish-to-long periods of time. Novak has missed exactly one Major due to injury, when he closed down his season in 2017 due to the elbow. Generally, he complains about, or insinuates injuries, but suffers nothing for them in the short-/long-term, or even the next tournament.

I hope the admins won't find this too distracting to the topic. We are discussing Novak's presumptive right arm issue, and how seriously to take it.

Let me understand your "logic". Because Rafa's injuries last longer, per you, they're legit, but if Novak recovers more quickly, they're not legit? Ok got it!
The elbow has bothered Novak for months, he got beaten very early in a few tourneys, definitely wasn't playing at his normal level, but he was faking it. Uh huh. I still remember when Rafa "injured" himself in his hotel room at the beginning of the Aussie Open years ago, and then played like a gazelle. Selective memory. Moxie you excuse the players you like but not the ones you don't for the same thing. Another example: last year you criticized Novak for playing to the crowd and asking for positive feedback. When I pointed out that young Carlos did the same thing, you said you "didn't notice". I assume by now you have noticed

 

[Moxie]

Let me understand your "logic". Because Rafa's injuries last longer, per you, they're legit, but if Novak recovers more quickly, they're not legit? Ok got it!
The elbow has bothered Novak for months, he got beaten very early in a few tourneys, definitely wasn't playing at his normal level, but he was faking it. Uh huh. I still remember when Rafa "injured" himself in his hotel room at the beginning of the Aussie Open years ago, and then played like a gazelle. Selective memory. Moxie you excuse the players you like but not the ones you don't for the same thing. Another example: last year you criticized Novak for playing to the crowd and asking for positive feedback. When I pointed out that young Carlos did the same thing, you said you "didn't notice". I assume by now you have noticed

The guy that got hurt in a hotel room was Federer, right? Bathing his kids? I don't remember any story of Nadal hurting himself in a hotel room.

If a guy acts injured, makes a show of it, it can be gamesmanship. Federer seemed to like a MTO when he lost a 4th set, and that guy was rarely ever injured. If there are no repercussions, subsequently, yes, one does wonder. Rafa's injuries have cost him, which implies that he's not feigning injury. I don't think that's hard to understand. I pointed out a year when Novak complained about his elbow, and yet had a great year. Maybe he has enormous powers of recuperation. Maybe. He believes he can change poison water to healing water. He keeps telling us he'll say what's in the magic potion he drinks, yet hasn't, and what that huffing of a bottle is about, yet hasn't.

As to the difference between an enthusiastic teenager, in Alcaraz, and a long-time #1 in Novak, I think you can also see the difference. With the young Alcaraz, it's all fizz. He'll level it out, as Rafa did. With Novak, given how long he's been at the top, it often looks a little more pathetic. But, sure, if you like it, whatever. However, Novak has also been hostile to the crowd. Has blamed them for his losses. This is not the same as a young Alcaraz just jumping around, happily.

 

[Fiero425]

I'd love to hear about certain posters' access to Novak's medical records, etc., to "know" that he faked his leg injury in Australia (despite a corroborating MRI) and an elbow issue he's had for months, and for which he previously had surgery several years ago.

Those same "doctors in waiting" don't mention the revival of Federer when winning in '17 or times when Rafa's supposedly hurt, but runs like a deer!

 

[Fiero425]

Yeah, being seeded 5th through 8th in a Slam is sort of irrelevant, as the top 4 seeds randomly could have any of them in their quarter.

Not exactly an exact science but In all my years of tennis viewing it seems that I see alot of #1 versus #5 in these draws.

Paris screwed themselves last season when Nadal was lowly seeded at #5, but ended up matching up w/ #1 Djokovic in the QF's! Rafa was still trying get over such a rotten end to 2021 season, losing early and finally shutting it down after USO! He took AO only b/c Novak wasn't allowed to play! Novak might have played himself into shape after missing Masters events in the States in March!

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Paris screwed themselves last season when Nadal was lowly seeded at #5, but ended up matching up w/ #1 Djokovic in the QF's! Rafa was still trying get over such a rotten end to 2021 season, losing early and finally shutting it down after USO! He took AO only b/c Novak wasn't allowed to play! Novak might have played himself into shape after missing Masters events in the States in March!

Rafa didn't play in the 2021 US Open, and he certainly didn't lose early in the French Open. He lost a grueling 4-setter in the semifinal to Djokovic, then pretty much shut down for the rest of the season (though he did play a warmup tournament at the Citi Open, where he struggled against Jack Sock and lost to Lloyd Harris). In addition to missing the US Open, he missed Wimbledon and the Olympics.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Rafa didn't play in the 2021 US Open, and he certainly didn't lose early in the French Open. He lost a grueling 4-setter in the semifinal to Djokovic, then pretty much shut down for the rest of the season (though he did play a warmup tournament at the Citi Open, where he struggled against Jack Sock and lost to Lloyd Harris). In addition to missing the US Open, he missed Wimbledon and the Olympics.

Thank you for correcting Fiero's post which was filled with so many wrong facts, maybe he was drunk while typing it?

 

[Fiero425]

Nadal sounded terrible w/ this act of "woe is me!" He didn't think he deserved this! WHAT? He did it to himself by pushing his body too far over the years allowing "nobodies" to extend him to the limit from early Rds! He won them, but it cost him w/ his body breaking down quickly!

 

[kskate2]

Nadal sounded terrible w/ this act of "woe is me!" He didn't think he deserved this! WHAT? He did it to himself by pushing his body too far over the years allowing "nobodies" to extend him to the limit from early Rds! He won them, but it cost him w/ his body breaking down quickly!

I'm not even a member of the Rafa Collective and I find this a bit harsh. If anything, I would think you would quietly cheer that your player has a better chance to pickup another FO.

 

[tented]

I'm not even a member of the Rafa Collective and I find this a bit harsh. If anything, I would think you would quietly cheer that your player has a better chance to pickup another FO.

 

[Fiero425]

I'm not even a member of the Rafa Collective and I find this a bit harsh. If anything, I would think you would quietly cheer that your player has a better chance to pickup another FO.

Just telling the truth and being honest in my feeling! I've never cared for the guy and that "ain't" changing! His game offends me along w/ his court deportment/gamesmanship! I so hoped he'd be gone long ago! He stole a few majors over Roger early on being a control freak out there! He's abused the time-clock, challenges, & toweling off!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal sounded terrible w/ this act of "woe is me!" He didn't think he deserved this! WHAT? He did it to himself by pushing his body too far over the years allowing "nobodies" to extend him to the limit from early Rds! He won them, but it cost him w/ his body breaking down quickly!

His body breaking down quickly? He won slams at age 35 last year. Lol

Meanwhile, I’m waiting for your excuse when Djokovic loses and how you’re going to blame it on his elbow. I guess his constant endless pushing against nobodies caused him that injury, no?

 

[Fiero425]

His body breaking down quickly? He won slams at age 35 last year. Lol

Meanwhile, I’m waiting for your excuse when Djokovic loses and how you’re going to blame it on his elbow I guess his constant endless pushing against nobodies caused him that injury, no?

Nyah, not like you! No delusion here! Novak's done well to win anything with the way his schedule's been an absolute mess the last couple years! He hasn't been himself since dropping that USO match to Medvedev in 2021 final! As I've said, he's not even my fave player! I just like what he's been doing to annihilate the aura of Fedal, believing the game of tennis begins and ends w/ them on a pedestal most will never reach! I'll be perfectly satisfied if he only wins Wimbledon to equal Federer at 8 champships! Only able to play 2 majors last season, it was more than gratifying that he took another grass court title! You've been subsisting on Rafa winning FO's for years! Now what you got for me?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nyah, not like you! No delusion here! Novak's done well to win anything with the way his schedule's been an absolute mess the last couple years! He hasn't been himself since dropping that USO match to Medvedev in 2021 final! As I said, he's not even my fave player! I just like what he's been doing to annihilate the aura of Fedal believing the game of tennis begins and ends w/ them on a pedestal most will never reach! I'll be perfectly satisfied if he only wins Wimbledon to equal Federer at 8 champships! Only able to play 2 majors last season, it was more than gratifying that he took another grass court title! You've been subsisting on Rafa winning FO for years! Now what you got for me?

Years? You conveniently forgot about the USO that Rafa won throughout the years (most Djoko fans tend to forget about that slam) and of course the more recent AO last year.

 

[Fiero425]

Years? You conveniently forgot about the USO that Rafa won throughout the years (most Djoko fans tend to forget about that slam) and of course the more recent AO last year.

I forget lit'l to nothing! I'm proud of being the resident tennis historian! I don't do "what if's" & imagine things like some to eleviate their anxieties!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I forget lit'l to nothing! I'm proud of being the resident tennis historian! I don't do "what if's" & imagine things like some to eleviate their anxieties!

Tennis historian?

 

[El Dude]

I'm not even a member of the Rafa Collective and I find this a bit harsh. If anything, I would think you would quietly cheer that your player has a better chance to pickup another FO.

LOL, such an apt term.

 

[Moxie]

I know we co-opted the RG thread with the Fedalovic wars, so I'll make some small attempt to move it over here. @britbox: Years ago, you said the Nadal/Federer H2H would only matter if they ever tied in the Slams race. Does that mean we can talk about the significance of it now?

 

[britbox]

I know we co-opted the RG thread with the Fedalovic wars, so I'll make some small attempt to move it over here. @britbox: Years ago, you said the Nadal/Federer H2H would only matter if they ever tied in the Slams race. Does that mean we can talk about the significance of it now?

You asked me that question at the time. I stood by it.

Will Novak pass Rafa?

By the way folks, I just think when I see the phrase “goat race” being used with regards to the Big 3, that it refers only to this era. I don’t apply it across the ages to include players of the past. Why? Because I think there’s huge recency bias at play, where people are counting up masters...

www.tennisfrontier.com