Fedal - XXXVII - Miami Finals

[Shivashish Sarkar]

- AntiPusher said:
= "...Rafa consistently dropped the ball too short. Tennis 101, if your opponent drops a ball short, put it away; make them pay for their error. Roger's BH is no longer a liability. He's not gonna let you force him off the baseline; you are gonna play tennis on his terms. Roger hit more FH and BH winners today, but with the aid of Rafa short balls. That's why I stated Rafa will be crushed.

Rafa had nothing to lose today, I would have thrown the kitchen sink at Roger. Rafa said last Fall he must make his opponents feel much pain. He did at AO until the mid part of the 5 set. Rafa needs to take more risks. He began with more risks today, however after the first 2 1/4 games, Roger had 5 FH winners. That's what's crushing."
===

Fiero425 says:
- That's been my biggest problem with both Murray and Nadal; playing defensive when they have a more offensive game! It just doesn't come out until it's too late at times; hence the losses to Fedovic over the last several years in Majors and Masters alike! At times, both Nole & Roger have been unhittable, but at this stage, it has to be a little embarrassing to Nadray to keep going down to the same people over and over? Truthfully, Nole hasn't played "sky-high" tennis since his obliteration of Nadal at Qatar last season; barely holding on after his FO completed the Nole-Slam, but he has time to get his act together! We'll have to see what happens with Murray; pressure has to be huge since he's not a "real #1" IMO! :ras: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

what's a "real" N°1 for you ? a guy who has no elbow tear and can play his best tennis ?? I guess if Sir Andy was fit, he would have had a better season's start. moreover, he couldn't maintain all the time the level he had at the end of 2016, normal to quiet down after such a brilliant period
we have to wait him to come back healthy to see what he's going to do, he's such a great champ that he should find a way to play some decent tennis, injuries can happen to all players, now it's his turn, nothing to contest his N°1 spot for the moment, I guess he'll still be N°1 at the end of 2017

Yes, injuries can happen to anyone. But was his tennis elbow injury responsible for all his losses this year so far? Could be. But, I don't think.

 

[britbox]

Don't know who the buffoon reporter was at the start... congratulating Rafa for the "win" before he corrected her.

 

[El Dude]

Rafa doesn't seem to acknowledge Roger's improvements.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I don't think there is anybody else. I think there's just the 3 of them. I wracked my brains a bit, and also saw mention on the web of Blake beating him 3 times, but nobody comes to mind beating him 3 times, other than these 3...

Hrbaty (the GOAT), Roddick, Verdasco.

Kieran made a typo. What we are looking for here is players who have defeated Rafa four times in a row, other than Nole, Fed and Davy. It does not look like there are any.

 

[DarthFed]

^ I didn't really take it like that given the context of the question which was kind of a dumb one to ask. It's kind of just asking, " can you comment on why Roger is kicking your ass suddenly after you had been kicking his ass for so many years before this?" Rafa acknowledged Fed is playing great and is confident, I don't think he needs to break it down more than that.

 

[Moxie]

Rafa doesn't seem to acknowledge Roger's improvements.

Oh, man. You get the win AND you want him to gush over Roger? That's a bit much. It's not his job, really. Plenty of others are doing just fine at it.

 

[DarthFed]

I saw the match live but wasn't here commenting on it. It was one of the most wacky matches they ever had. The first set was a complete role-reversal with Rafa outserving Fed badly but Roger controlling the baseline battle. They both had a lot of chances so the 6-3 didn't reflect how close the set was. Roger's forehand this match was deadly from the start but his improved backhand and ROS were up and down and the latter was very down in the 2nd set.

In the 2nd set Rafa was terrible. Fed was toying with him from the baseline and the only thing that kept him in it was Roger was struggling badly with his ROS until late in the set. I think that was the only bit of fatigue he showed, he was still being aggressive with the return but he was late on most of Rafa's serves even on the 2nd serve. It was almost like he wanted to conserve energy on Rafa's service games until late in the set. In the 2nd set Rafa's backhand was bad and his forehand was even worse. That one felt a lot worse than 6-4.

Whether it's a case of Roger's new style of play, Roger possibly being in his head a bit now, just a bad day at the office, or all of the above it is nice to see Fed racking up the big wins over Nadal. The real bad news for Rafa is it felt like Roger could've played quite a bit better and aside from clay this was absolutely the best court for Rafa to play Federer on IMO.

 

[mrzz]

I don't think there is anybody else. I think there's just the 3 of them. I wracked my brains a bit, and also saw mention on the web of Blake beating him 3 times, but nobody comes to mind beating him 3 times, other than these 3...

Hrbaty (the GOAT), Roddick, Verdasco.

Kieran made a typo. What we are looking for here is players who have defeated Rafa four times in a row, other than Nole, Fed and Davy. It does not look like there are any.

I guess that the conversation evolved from the four in a row (just Federer, Davydenko and Djokovic with 7), to four in total (El Dude´s list), then down to three. (which is still a short list, even two is a short list).

 

[Fiero425]

I don't think there is anybody else. I think there's just the 3 of them. I wracked my brains a bit, and also saw mention on the web of Blake beating him 3 times, but nobody comes to mind beating him 3 times, other than these 3...

Hrbaty (the GOAT), Roddick, Verdasco.

Kieran made a typo. What we are looking for here is players who have defeated Rafa 4 times in a row, other than Nole, Fed and Davy. It does not look like there are any.

Besides the unlikelihood of them winning, the percentages are against even meeting enough times for the record to be worth keeping! The only reason Fedalovic have record #'s of matches is due to their consistency to make the Semi and Finals of tournament after tournament! That was hard to do until these guys and their names will splash all over the record books for ALL TIME! There's just no way any one person should be able to dominate again like these guys! Ya never know though! uzzled :nono :cover - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

 

[El Dude]

Oh, man. You get the win AND you want him to gush over Roger? That's a bit much. It's not his job, really. Plenty of others are doing just fine at it.

Not at all - that's you being defensive about your boy, Moxie. Rather, I was thinking more in terms of wanting to see whether Rafa acknowledges improvements in Roger's game, which would imply that he will consciously work to counter those improvements. If he doesn't acknowledge them, perhaps he's going to continue with "business as usual" and hope that doing the same thing will eventually yield results.

 

[Carol]

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=128995

 

[Carol]

I do think that the result doesn't say how really the match was. Even that many of Rafa's fans are criticizing him the way that he is playing I think he is not doing so bad but to me it's very annoying his conformism about the defeat, maybe he should smash his racket like most of the top of the players has done and do but I know it's not part of his personality. While Roger had to play more tied matches in IW and Miami against players which have less game than Nadal then he did just in two sets playing against him, incredible but true. But it's not everything about Federer, Rafa has reached three finals but for different reason he lost, with Querrey too in Acapulco which means that even that he is almost "there" at the end something is not working well, he is healthy, he was the favorite to win in the AO, Acapulco, IW and Miami but he couldn't make it, the reason? he is the only one to know why but I'm sure he will find out the way to be more successful, he is a smart player and knows to read his opponents game tough unfortunately he is still riding the roller coaster which he needs to get down as soon as posible.
And Roger? we could call him from now "the bionic man"

 

[El Dude]

Clay will tell us a lot where Rafa's at. If he does really well, we can chalk these last few tourneys to Roger playing really well; if he struggles in clay, then there's a more serious problem and it goes beyond Roger's backhand.

Monte Carlo is going to be a zoo. Rafa will REALLY want it. Novak will be wanting to prove himself, similarly with Andy. And then there's the hungry young guns: Thiem, Kyrgios, Zverev, and the not-so-young Dimitrov, Nishikori, Raonic. And of course del Potro, hoping still to capture his first Masters title.

 

[mrzz]

I think Nadal played quite well in the Miami final, and the match was really decided on details. Federer is playing extremely well, there is no way not to acknowledge this. If the in-form player would be anyone else, nobody would be questioning Nadal´s form, and would only be noticing the improvement from last year. The only point out of the curve, IMO, is the Acapulco final -- but as I did not see the match I cannot comment.

I have little doubt that Nadal will roll on the clay season. I think he is a lock for all the semis at least (given that he may draw Djokovic in his half), but right now I would put my money on him over the Serb.

As I said elsewhere, I am pretty sure that Nadal will be leading the race after the clay swing -- barring tragedy or a dream Federer run on RG.

 

[MartyB]

Clay will tell us a lot where Rafa's at. If he does really well, we can chalk these last few tourneys to Roger playing really well; if he struggles in clay, then there's a more serious problem and it goes beyond Roger's backhand.

Monte Carlo is going to be a zoo. Rafa will REALLY want it. Novak will be wanting to prove himself, similarly with Andy. And then there's the hungry young guns: Thiem, Kyrgios, Zverev, and the not-so-young Dimitrov, Nishikori, Raonic. And of course del Potro, hoping still to capture his first Masters title.

Right now I would even bet on Fed at the French to take Rafa..I would be very concerned about Novak Nick Zverev and Stan if I was a Rafa fan. I still think Fed will play one tune up to the French. He doesn't need to just a hunch.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using New Forum mobile app

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

that was federer's 3rd best match of the tourney..2nd best was vs skeletor in qf and best was vs nick in sf.

rafa was partly hurt by having such soft opponents like fog, and sock, who was nervous and chokey, his level wasn't raised enough to play roger and couldn't do so in the final, Federer having had tough matches vs skeletor, and nick could get away with having an inferior final but still winning.

strange times.

 

[Moxie]

Not at all - that's you being defensive about your boy, Moxie. Rather, I was thinking more in terms of wanting to see whether Rafa acknowledges improvements in Roger's game, which would imply that he will consciously work to counter those improvements. If he doesn't acknowledge them, perhaps he's going to continue with "business as usual" and hope that doing the same thing will eventually yield results.

He hit more to the forehand than usual in that match, which I would call an adjustment, though it didn't work yesterday. Rafa rarely give much meat and potatoes in a presser, and I don't think it implies that he's not thinking about what to change vis-a-vis Roger's game, just because he's not interested in reflecting on it in the press. My comment wasn't defensive. I think you can read the teasing in way I wrote it. Twisted essentially said the same thing to you: how should he really respond to that question?

 

[Carol]

Ok, ok, I understand the Roger's fans enthusiasm and even thinking that he can now to beat Rafa on clay too......relax guys, don't go so far and let's go to wait what will be the next results, you shouldn't count the chickens before they are hatched B-)

 

[Moxie]

I think Nadal played quite well in the Miami final, and the match was really decided on details. Federer is playing extremely well, there is no way not to acknowledge this. If the in-form player would be anyone else, nobody would be questioning Nadal´s form, and would only be noticing the improvement from last year. The only point out of the curve, IMO, is the Acapulco final -- but as I did not see the match I cannot comment.

I have little doubt that Nadal will roll on the clay season. I think he is a lock for all the semis at least (given that he may draw Djokovic in his half), but right now I would put my money on him over the Serb.

As I said elsewhere, I am pretty sure that Nadal will be leading the race after the clay swing -- barring tragedy or a dream Federer run on RG.

I don't really agree that Rafa played well in the final. I'm more in Twisted's camp, and his assessment was pretty accurate. I do think Rafa has been improving during this comeback phase, and I hope that the payoff does come on the clay. But yesterday was not one of his better days. Roger came back full force, and Rafa is getting there more slowly.

 

[Carol]

I don't really agree that Rafa played well in the final. I'm more in Twisted's camp, and his assessment was pretty accurate. I do think Rafa has been improving during this comeback phase, and I hope that the payoff does come on the clay. But yesterday was not one of his better days. Roger came back full force, and Rafa is getting there more slowly.

Not, he didn't, he could have won the first set but he did a couple of silly mistakes and he paid very badly