Fedal - XXXVII - Miami Finals

[kskate2]

I agree Kieran. Very nice to see you back. I'll be praying for the family. I've dealt with aging and health declining parents so I understand. Use tennis and this board as an outlet if you need one. :hug

 

[El Dude]

Roger's now 19-1, a 95%. That's the same percentage he had in 2006, his best year. Now I don't expect him to continue at that pace, but maybe he finishes at 90%, which would be his best percentage since...2006.

 

[Puppet Master]

I'm surprised that Roger said he'll take all of clay season off (except Roland Garros). If anything I was wondering if he was thinking, "I'm playing so good, might as well come back and go for Monte Carlo as well as Rome."

But what surprises me is that he typically wants a warm-up tournament for Slams. It is April 2 now and Roland Garros begins in late May - so that would be an almost two month break. Not sure why that is necessary, and Rome seems well timed.

This was the "I am tired I just played 4 weeks in a row" Roger speaking. I have a feeling he may ask for a wildcard somewhere after sitting for a month at home and playing tea party with the girls :snicker

I am almost certain that he will play Rome, just to see where things are at. But from his point of view, he probably doesn't want to play Rome so rusty only to lose to some mug. Most likely, he will go at it at RG and if he can reach the quarters, that will be an excellent result. If RG doesn't change the balls like they did in 2011, there are at least 5 guys on tour who would beat him there, or at least push him very hard.
If they make the change this year, LOL who knows what could happen.

 

[the AntiPusher]

From Roger's perspective, he took a long break and he knocked ten years off his age. I hope this isn't a trend we'll see.

For Rafa, I wouldn't see this as crushing. I haven't been watching much tennis, my ol;d lad isn't well, but in general up til the Big Matches, Rafa is actually playing great tennis. He just isn't holding himself together too well once there's something big at stake, and he's been like that since 2014. He gets anxious, he hurries the shots, he blows big chances. Even still, facing FUBAR-Fed, it's been an unlucky time for him, but I think that he could be prone to lapses against anyone, in a big final. Even last year, his only victory of note was in Monte Carlo, and he struggled there in the final to beat Le Monf, which is not really something he used to do.

Put it this way - if he'd faced Monfils in the semis of MC last year, he'd have destroyed him.

I saw this happen with a lot of players as they age, they become tentative, and big finals become too much for them. They weary easier, and physically they drain quicker, through anxiety, etc. The big matches aren't gonna be there forever for them, so they begin to fluff their lines. I'm proud of him so far this season though...

Welcome back brother and I will keep praying for you and your family..Kieran, I have been mentioning for the past few weeks , the Right way to play on the hardcourts especially against top players like Roger. JBA did, Berdych did , Krygrios did , Rafa did for the first part of the first set but abandoned his aggressive play..Yes he was unlucky and Roger was playing at a different level. E.g. You Have breakpoint against Roger and he is at the net. Why not give him a topspin lob to Roger's bh ..even if Roger returns the ball he is totally out of position and lost control of the court..Also there were numerous times when Roger hit the ball short, Rafa took the high percentage play hit the ball to the low part of the next crosscourt and Roger would just stretch and take it down the line with his fh..Rafa , you're the left make Roger hit that shot on a running bh..even if Roger tries to pull it dtl or cc, you are in the middle of the court and have total control..

That being said, I am proud of Rafa also..although the results wasn't much better than IW , he play a bit more aggressively but was unlucky..Really, I wanted these hardcourt titles for Nadal..I hope his team sees the same thing cause Djokovic and Murray will be back and the path to the championship will be like the Hobbits trying to return the ring of power to Mount Doom..

Again Welcome back brother , this is just a game, family is primary :clap

Cheers bro!

I think rafa prolly expected - as we all did - that Federer would show some negative reactions to playing such draining quarter- and semi-finals so close to the final, but guess what! :s

Rafa also didn't execute, as you and others have said. I remember after Oz we all weighed up things but I was kind of cautious with regards to Rafa because of his inability to stay calm in big matches. I didn't mind it so much in Oz because he'd played a gruelling semi - and these matches have effects on older players, in the natural course - but I kinda feel that in an alt-world, where Berdyck=h beat Federer, and then beat Nick, that Rafa would struggle against Tomas too. In a final. In the newspaper today I read a commentator mention how Rafa had struggled in the second set against Fog, just in the old-fashioned art of crushing him, which Rafa used to much better at, but now, he's tenative.

I'm not sure a Big Win will be enough for him, either, although I'd have him as the best player heading onto clay, because he's always been so great there, and it's a long time since he headed onto the red stuff playing as well as he is now...

You are welcome..Kieran it's just plain and simple.its have only been one player who can win these hardcourt tournaments from the backcourt playing offensively , that is Novak. Before that it was Agassi . Rafa consistently dropped the ball too short. Tennis 101, if your opponent drops a ball short, put it away make them pay for their error. Roger's bh is no longer a liability..he is not gonna let you force him off the baseline, you are gonna play tennis on his terms. Roger hit more fh and bh winners today but with the aid of Rafa short balls. That's why I stated Rafa will be crushed.

Rafa had nothing to loose today, I would have thrown the kitchen sink at Roger. Rafa said last Fall he must make his opponents feel much pain..he did at AO until the mid part of the 5 set..Rafa needs to take more risks..he began with more risks today however after the first 2 1/4 games, Roger had 5 fh winners..that's what's crushing..

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Unbelievable, the only man known to grow younger with passage of time wins the sunshine double after lifting Norman Brookes cup! :clap :clap :celeb:

You said it, brother. It's FUBAR-Fed, as brother Front would have it. RIP tennis, indeed.

AS for Rafa, he's working hard but his decline in big matches is as natural as his physical decline is in players who age naturally. Rafa used to be tough in the clutch but now he's anxious, and snatches at his shots. He's had a good start to the year, been unlucky that Federer's conditioning is, well, it's, eh, well it's quite obvious what it is. Rafa will struggle on to the clay and hopefully will pick up a big title there...

Welcome back Kieran. Sorry to learn that your Dad is not doing well. Hope, he gets better though.

While Rafa might have lost, you should take heart that he is #2 in the race and achieved it without stepping his foot on dirt. Things can only get better for him. I expect him to win Barcelona and at least one of the three clay Masters. He will probably lose early in one of the other Masters and go deep and lose in the other. Anyway, he will be a force to reckon with at least until the end of RG.

p.s. I thought you don't post during Lent as you are busy repenting. May be you did not sin a lot this year.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Match Stat: Roger +10 in differential and Rafa -8 in differential.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

From the horse's mouth, no clay tournaments until the French. Might as well rest.

Yes, he said so now. But, I think he will change his mind and play Rome alone before RG.
That gives a full stretch of six weeks to rest. That should be sufficient.

 

[pavlik89]

Roger Federer vs Rafael Nadal FULL MATCH HD FINAL https://goo.gl/PzzIwg

 

[Front242]

The better player won..just plain and simple..I don't think Roger was forced to slice the backhand not one time.. too easy for Roger.. Man I feel bad for Nadal.. what an extremely crushing blow for him and his team..this shall too shall pass

From Roger's perspective, he took a long break and he knocked ten years off his age. I hope this isn't a trend we'll see.

For Rafa, I wouldn't see this as crushing. I haven't been watching much tennis, my ol;d lad isn't well, but in general up til the Big Matches, Rafa is actually playing great tennis. He just isn't holding himself together too well once there's something big at stake, and he's been like that since 2014. He gets anxious, he hurries the shots, he blows big chances. Even still, facing FUBAR-Fed, it's been an unlucky time for him, but I think that he could be prone to lapses against anyone, in a big final. Even last year, his only victory of note was in Monte Carlo, and he struggled there in the final to beat Le Monf, which is not really something he used to do.

Put it this way - if he'd faced Monfils in the semis of MC last year, he'd have destroyed him.

I saw this happen with a lot of players as they age, they become tentative, and big finals become too much for them. They weary easier, and physically they drain quicker, through anxiety, etc. The big matches aren't gonna be there forever for them, so they begin to fluff their lines. I'm proud of him so far this season though...

Hope you're right about knocking 10 years off his age as I'd be perfectly fine watching him play till he was 45.5 years old!

 

[Kieran]

Unbelievable, the only man known to grow younger with passage of time wins the sunshine double after lifting Norman Brookes cup! :clap :clap :celeb:

You said it, brother. It's FUBAR-Fed, as brother Front would have it. RIP tennis, indeed.

AS for Rafa, he's working hard but his decline in big matches is as natural as his physical decline is in players who age naturally. Rafa used to be tough in the clutch but now he's anxious, and snatches at his shots. He's had a good start to the year, been unlucky that Federer's conditioning is, well, it's, eh, well it's quite obvious what it is. Rafa will struggle on to the clay and hopefully will pick up a big title there...

Welcome back Kieran. Sorry to learn that your Dad is not doing well. Hope, he gets better though.

While Rafa might have lost, you should take heart that he is #2 in the race and achieved it without stepping his foot on dirt. Things can only get better for him. I expect him to win Barcelona and at least one of the three clay Masters. He will probably lose early in one of the other Masters and go deep and lose in the other. Anyway, he will be a force to reckon with at least until the end of RG.

p.s. I thought you don't post during Lent as you are busy repenting. May be you did not sin a lot this year.

I broke Lent a couple times, brother, but Sunday isn't part of Lent! There's 46 days from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday, but only 40 days in Lent. The six Sunday being a day where fasting isn't considered appropriate. So I'm here to annoy ya! :snicker

And thanks to you and everyone else for your kind thoughts... :hug

 

[Front242]

Roger Federer vs Rafael Nadal FULL MATCH HD FINAL https://goo.gl/PzzIwg

Incredibly fast upload, pavlik. :clap

 

[Fiero425]

- AntiPusher said:
= "...Rafa consistently dropped the ball too short. Tennis 101, if your opponent drops a ball short, put it away; make them pay for their error. Roger's BH is no longer a liability. He's not gonna let you force him off the baseline; you are gonna play tennis on his terms. Roger hit more FH and BH winners today, but with the aid of Rafa short balls. That's why I stated Rafa will be crushed.

Rafa had nothing to lose today, I would have thrown the kitchen sink at Roger. Rafa said last Fall he must make his opponents feel much pain. He did at AO until the mid part of the 5 set. Rafa needs to take more risks. He began with more risks today, however after the first 2 1/4 games, Roger had 5 FH winners. That's what's crushing."
===

Fiero425 says:
- That's been my biggest problem with both Murray and Nadal; playing defensive when they have a more offensive game! It just doesn't come out until it's too late at times; hence the losses to Fedovic over the last several years in Majors and Masters alike! At times, both Nole & Roger have been unhittable, but at this stage, it has to be a little embarrassing to Nadray to keep going down to the same people over and over? Truthfully, Nole hasn't played "sky-high" tennis since his obliteration of Nadal at Qatar last season; barely holding on after his FO completed the Nole-Slam, but he has time to get his act together! We'll have to see what happens with Murray; pressure has to be huge since he's not a "real #1" IMO! :ras: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

 

[Kieran]

he's not a "real #1" IMO! :ras: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

He's not a real #1? He's the Wimbledon champ, he won the WhatTheFeck, beating Nole, and hasn't he had elbow issues or something this year?

It'll definitely be interesting to see how Murray and especially Djoker return, because they might find it hard to reassert themselves over the summer...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Factoid: Only two players have beat Rafa four times in a row. They are Davydenko and Roger.

Obviously, Davy cannot improve on it, but Roger could.

Interestingly, Davy used to take the balls on the rise too and that worked like magic for him against Rafa. Now, Fed is doing it more often on the backhand side, especially.

 

[Kieran]

Factoid: Only two players have beat Rafa four times in a row. They are Davydenko and Roger.

Obviously, Davy cannot improve on it, but Roger could.

Interestingly, Davy used to take the balls on the rise too and that worked like magic for him against Rafa. Now, Fed is doing it more often on the backhand side, especially.

Errrr, Novak!

Gone and forgotten?

 

[Busted]

The better player won..just plain and simple..I don't think Roger was forced to slice the backhand not one time.. too easy for Roger.. Man I feel bad for Nadal.. what an extremely crushing blow for him and his team..this shall too shall pass

From Roger's perspective, he took a long break and he knocked ten years off his age. I hope this isn't a trend we'll see.

For Rafa, I wouldn't see this as crushing. I haven't been watching much tennis, my ol;d lad isn't well, but in general up til the Big Matches, Rafa is actually playing great tennis. He just isn't holding himself together too well once there's something big at stake, and he's been like that since 2014. He gets anxious, he hurries the shots, he blows big chances. Even still, facing FUBAR-Fed, it's been an unlucky time for him, but I think that he could be prone to lapses against anyone, in a big final. Even last year, his only victory of note was in Monte Carlo, and he struggled there in the final to beat Le Monf, which is not really something he used to do.

Put it this way - if he'd faced Monfils in the semis of MC last year, he'd have destroyed him.

I saw this happen with a lot of players as they age, they become tentative, and big finals become too much for them. They weary easier, and physically they drain quicker, through anxiety, etc. The big matches aren't gonna be there forever for them, so they begin to fluff their lines. I'm proud of him so far this season though...

I think the majority of Nadal's problem is simply that he's not a natural all-surface player. Other surfaces have always been a bigger struggle for him.

Ans as far as the ease of his wins before the final? Well, come on, look who he's playing. When it comes to the finals of these big events the last few years he's playing guys who are better form than he is - Djokovic, Murray and now Federer. It's no mystery - the better player has been winning these matches and that's NOT Nadal anymore. I don't think it's just matter of age or pulling his punches - he's just not as good as he used to be. Even Roger said at IW that Rafa's footwork was off and he was slow and thought maybe Rafa had an injury. I don't think he did. I just don't think he's as good a player as he used to be. The years of exacting physicality of his game has taken clearly taken a toll.

 

[the AntiPusher]

- AntiPusher said:
= "...Rafa consistently dropped the ball too short. Tennis 101, if your opponent drops a ball short, put it away; make them pay for their error. Roger's BH is no longer a liability. He's not gonna let you force him off the baseline; you are gonna play tennis on his terms. Roger hit more FH and BH winners today, but with the aid of Rafa short balls. That's why I stated Rafa will be crushed.

Rafa had nothing to lose today, I would have thrown the kitchen sink at Roger. Rafa said last Fall he must make his opponents feel much pain. He did at AO until the mid part of the 5 set. Rafa needs to take more risks. He began with more risks today, however after the first 2 1/4 games, Roger had 5 FH winners. That's what's crushing."
===

Fiero425 says:
- That's been my biggest problem with both Murray and Nadal; playing defensive when they have a more offensive game! It just doesn't come out until it's too late at times; hence the losses to Fedovic over the last several years in Majors and Masters alike! At times, both Nole & Roger have been unhittable, but at this stage, it has to be a little embarrassing to Nadray to keep going down to the same people over and over? Truthfully, Nole hasn't played "sky-high" tennis since his obliteration of Nadal at Qatar last season; barely holding on after his FO completed the Nole-Slam, but he has time to get his act together! We'll have to see what happens with Murray; pressure has to be huge since he's not a "real #1" IMO! :ras: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

Thanks fiero..I think you are the one person understands the game of tennis like I do. I try to be objective and fair.

 

[Fiero425]

he's not a "real #1" IMO! :ras: - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - -

He's not a real #1? He's the Wimbledon champ, he won the WhatTheFeck, beating Nole, and hasn't he had elbow issues or something this year?

It'll definitely be interesting to see how Murray and especially Djoker return, because they might find it hard to reassert themselves over the summer...

JMHO that it all came down to 1 match; making little sense to me since Nole had 2 majors and 4 Masters under his belt with other finals! Murray took over when Nole went into hibernation, winning only a Masters 1000 in the 2nd half of the season! It still should have been enough, but for the system that almost penalizes success! The following season after setting all kinds of records in 2015 had Nole falling to #2 with a more noteworthy season! Reminds me of the old days when someone like Vilas owned 2 majors and had won well over 100 matches in '77; was barely a footnote in the books behind Borg and Connors! Maybe majors should award another 500 points to the winner! :nono

 

[Haelfix]

Over the years Federer has done a number of little adjustements that have bothered Rafa, but its rare that he could chain them together consistently enough to get enough points to win. Often improving the serve out wide (which is useful against a lefty) came at the expense of a loss in fh power, so it was a net split at best. He started hitting down the middle more (which Del Potro had used effectively against Nadal) and repeatedly pounding Rafa's backhand (even when the fh was wide open) but always the same matchup problem at the end of the day which Rafa could go to on the big points.

Still, these last three wins you can kinda see that he's basically putting all those little adjustements together in a consistent way as well as his base level being a little higher, and now we see the dividends. The amusing thing is there is a lot of Novak/Nadal point construction in the way he is playing the points. The way he flattens out the backhand on Nadal's loopy cc exchanges is very Novak like. The way he now buys himself time with his own deep loopy high floating forehands (which is one of the big things that no one is talking about) is a page straight from Rafa (and has visibly frustrated Nadal several times).

Tennis is a funny sport. Often in h2hs people go on long streaks with similar matches, at which point someone has time in the offseason to tweak their games a bit, and then there might be a radical flipflop.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Factoid: Only two players have beat Rafa four times in a row. They are Davydenko and Roger.

Obviously, Davy cannot improve on it, but Roger could.

Interestingly, Davy used to take the balls on the rise too and that worked like magic for him against Rafa. Now, Fed is doing it more often on the backhand side, especially.

Errrr, Novak!

Gone and forgotten?

Oops, some idiot on TV said that and I too repeated it without thinking :cover