Fedal XXX

[Kieran]

By the way, for the neutrals (among which I admittedly do not belong), Novak beating Nadal in Monte Carlo was the best thing to happen this clay court season, as it's the only thing stopping the FO from being foregone conclusion. And yeah, I still think Novak-Nadal in Paris is at worst 50-50.

Absolutely. I think men's tennis would be exposed as being weak as WTA if Nadal came back from a seven month stretch and beat everyone out of sight. He's not yet up to last year's levels and so I'd also make a scrap with Nole about 50:50...

 

[Front242]

By the way, for the neutrals (among which I admittedly do not belong), Novak beating Nadal in Monte Carlo was the best thing to happen this clay court season, as it's the only thing stopping the FO from being foregone conclusion. And yeah, I still think Novak-Nadal in Paris is at worst 50-50.

Absolutely. I think men's tennis would be exposed as being weak as WTA if Nadal came back from a seven month stretch and beat everyone out of sight. He's not yet up to last year's levels and so I'd also make a scrap with Nole about 50:50...

He pretty much has save for Djokovic so make what you want out of that. What is it now, 8 of 9 finals won since his return lol? How much better do you want him to get out of interest?

 

[brokenshoelace]

By the way, for the neutrals (among which I admittedly do not belong), Novak beating Nadal in Monte Carlo was the best thing to happen this clay court season, as it's the only thing stopping the FO from being foregone conclusion. And yeah, I still think Novak-Nadal in Paris is at worst 50-50.

Absolutely. I think men's tennis would be exposed as being weak as WTA if Nadal came back from a seven month stretch and beat everyone out of sight. He's not yet up to last year's levels and so I'd also make a scrap with Nole about 50:50...

Not really. Men's tennis has 3 forces that dominate outside of Nadal. Who is the equivalent of Novak Djokovic or Roger Federer on the women's side? Hell, who's Andy Murray? There's Serena... and everyone else. Nadal's comeback says more about him than the state of the game, which not to say that it says nothing about the state of the game (I don't think there are enough threats beyond the top 7-8 guys for instance).

 

[tented]

He pretty much has save for Djokovic so make what you want out of that. What is it now, 8 of 9 finals won since his return lol? How much better do you want him to get out of interest?

Actually, it's 6 out of 8.

 

[Kieran]

He pretty much has save for Djokovic so make what you want out of that. What is it now, 8 of 9 finals won since his return lol? How much better do you want him to get out of interest?

Actually, I would have liked Monte Carlo too.

But I think the proof in the pudding is Paris and Wimbledon. If he wins neither of them, then his comeback will still be a success, but not a return to where he belongs...yet.

 

[Ricardo]

Fed should take an 11 minute dump break and then tape both his knees.

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Commentator said it's bordering on embarrassing. Bordering? Can't wait to see the final error count for Fed.

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Right now a walkover would seem more entertaining than this. Let's see if Rafa throws him a freebie on his serve to keep it from being double breadsticks.

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just when i saw the same thing Herios said, can't help but notice both of you are Djoker fans who support quitting. Is quitting better than finishing a match and giving everyone (including fans) the proper respect? yeah should just walk away when your opponent is playing too good for you, just happy players don't think like you Djoker fans, or spectators should get refund from the tournaments who would then go broke.

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Actually, read your own reply to herios above. You're the one that brought quitting into it. And nehmeth's comment about a walkover being more entertaining was a joke.

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Actually Herios said for Fed to 'go home and play with the girls'.... who would want that and what's he saying? and what's funny about a walkover? i'd rather see Fed get slaughtered than walking away ala young Djoker. It's unsportsman and disrespectful for spectators.

if you can't come up with something better, forget it.

 

[Front242]

He pretty much has save for Djokovic so make what you want out of that. What is it now, 8 of 9 finals won since his return lol? How much better do you want him to get out of interest?

Actually, it's 6 out of 8.

Fair enough, I was close enough. It's still a mighty impressive comeback. And he's well in front now in the race for London.

 

[Ricardo]

Never have I been so glad to be in Church as it allowed me to miss the latest installment of this great rivalry.

Sounds like a howler for Roger but still a good week. Truth is that at this stage in his career Roger is no threat on clay and is a small one on slow-medium hards. His season really starts at Wimbledon and it will be that way for the rest of his career Im afraid

You didn't miss much, just numbers... which now sits at 13-2 on clay and the fact that Fed played a bit worse than most of his matches before.

 

[tented]

Actually Herios said for Fed to 'go home and play with the girls'.... who would want that and what's he saying? and what's funny about a walkover? i'd rather see Fed get slaughtered than walking away ala young Djoker. It's unsportsman and disrespectful for spectators.

if you can't come up with something better, forget it.

They don't literally mean for him to go home, or to give Rafa a walkover. These are things people say in frustration when their guy is losing: "You bum, go home!" etc.

Nehmeth stating a walkover would be more interesting is simply an ironic metaphor.

Why interpret these jokes (yes, jokes) literally, then start attacking? What's the purpose? What are you expecting to achieve? Who do you think wants to discuss something with you like this?

 

[DarthFed]

Never have I been so glad to be in Church as it allowed me to miss the latest installment of this great rivalry.

Sounds like a howler for Roger but still a good week. Truth is that at this stage in his career Roger is no threat on clay and is a small one on slow-medium hards. His season really starts at Wimbledon and it will be that way for the rest of his career Im afraid

Wouldn't it be nice if they could get grass to grow on that red clay?

All you missed was a repeat of so many of their clay court meetings, just more errors from Roger this time.

Their matches haven't been worth seeing for 4 + years now. You've seen one you've seen them all. They haven't had a great match since Wimbledon and they never will have another one. The "rivalry" somehow stays relevant when they've only played a few great matches with the last being 5 years ago

 

[Ricardo]

Right now a walkover would seem more entertaining than this. Let's see if Rafa throws him a freebie on his serve to keep it from being double breadsticks.

just when i saw the same thing Herios said, can't help but notice both of you are Djoker fans who support quitting. Is quitting better than finishing a match and giving everyone (including fans) the proper respect? yeah should just walk away when your opponent is playing too good for you, just happy players don't think like you Djoker fans, or spectators should get refund from the tournaments who would then go broke.

Actually, read your own reply to herios above. You're the one that brought quitting into it. And nehmeth's comment about a walkover being more entertaining was a joke.

Actually Herios said for Fed to 'go home and play with the girls'.... who would want that and what's he saying? and what's funny about a walkover? i'd rather see Fed get slaughtered than walking away ala young Djoker. It's unsportsman and disrespectful for spectators.

if you can't come up with something better, forget it.

Again, a commentary on Fed's poor play, not advocating quitting.

And you really need to change your tone ricardo.

yeah well i don't like any idea along those lines, walkover, go home, quit, tank a match and whatnot. Its not funny.

 

[Ricardo]

Actually Herios said for Fed to 'go home and play with the girls'.... who would want that and what's he saying? and what's funny about a walkover? i'd rather see Fed get slaughtered than walking away ala young Djoker. It's unsportsman and disrespectful for spectators.

if you can't come up with something better, forget it.

They don't literally mean for him to go home, or to give Rafa a walkover. These are things people say in frustration when their guy is losing: "You bum, go home!" etc.

Nehmeth stating a walkover would be more interesting is simply an ironic metaphor.

Why interpret these jokes (yes, jokes) literally, then start attacking? What's the purpose? What are you expecting to achieve? Who do you think wants to discuss something with you like this?

i still remember what certain players did when they were losing a match.... and they did in fact walked away/tanked. It's not fun and ironically both Herios and Nehmeth went along with that kind of talk.... its relevant don't you think?

 

[Ricardo]

Actually, read your own reply to herios above. You're the one that brought quitting into it. And nehmeth's comment about a walkover being more entertaining was a joke.

Actually Herios said for Fed to 'go home and play with the girls'.... who would want that and what's he saying? and what's funny about a walkover? i'd rather see Fed get slaughtered than walking away ala young Djoker. It's unsportsman and disrespectful for spectators.

if you can't come up with something better, forget it.

Again, a commentary on Fed's poor play, not advocating quitting.

And you really need to change your tone ricardo.

yeah well i don't like any idea along those lines, walkover, go home, quit, tank a match and whatnot. Its not funny.

And that gives you the okay to turn it around and attack Djokovic fans? I don't think so.

'attack', sensitive much? i do think fans deserve their money back if players think like you two, or do what Djoker used to do. (Or tank like Safin used to)

 

[Front242]

No we won't and I was waiting for some bs from you.

Of course you were. Murat is correct: Federer played crap because he played a guy who gets in his mush and thumps him.

The pressure Federer feels when he plays Nadal is immense and that causes the so-called UFE's. In other words, they're not UFE's at all...

Don't agree with this at all btw. I know you'll say RG 2011 was Nadal's worst match against Federer but I don't care, the fact is today Fed played well below par and had over double the number of UFEs to winners. Check the stats here, poor too mostly 'cos of the rubbish 4th set Fed played but even though the UFEs are over twice Nadal's, they're still almost on par with the winners Fed hit that day (still less than the errors though), i.e not double the winners like today. And that paints a clear picture as to how poorly he played today when the errors were over double the winners. 32 errors to 15 winners today so he had no chance playing that badly.

Naturally some are the result of pressure and Nadal getting one more ball into play but many were Fed's approaches to the net routinely netted after a decent serve and those are not forced errors. He should have had 0-40 on Nadal's serve in the first game of set 2 but routinely missed very easy balls and then lost the game and his own serve after that. He has no chance to win or even make it look respectable playing that badly. And we all know he's capable of making it much closer than that.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/05/idINIndia-57512120110605

 

[huntingyou]

The match could have been better, Roger pressed too hard with his forehand and made errors that were really unforced from that wing. The cc forehand to Roger's 1HBH dynamic wasn't much of a factor to be honest.

From my POV, I don't want to see another clay court match between these two.......Roger at this point it's being exposed by Rafa's CC backhand which signals the point of no return; on this surface at least.

I would definitely love to see a SF between these two at Wimbledon, I think it would be another classic. The UO of course would be nice to complete the whole enchilada but as a Rafa fan, the ultimate challenge would be to beat Roger indoors......tough ask.

As far as Paris goes, I said last week if Rafa wins Rome then you might as well forget about RG. I feel confident about my remarks; as good as Novak is and how well he matches up with Nadal; he is not as good as Roger was in his prime which pretty much guaranteed a final appearance. Rafa is in full flight right now, HUNGRY and ready to leave blood behind on the court. Can Novak play at the level he did at Monte Carlos? Can Rafa play as bad as he did in that final? Unlikely.............

 

[Front242]

I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually. He played at a high enough level to beat anyone but Djokovic that day.

 

[huntingyou]

I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually.

His worst clay final outside of his first tournament this year. In contrast, Novak said "this is the best I can ever play on clay; at least in the first set" something like that. It was the perfect storm.

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I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually.

I agree. He didn't play his best - he wasn't allowed to, but he did not play badly.

I don't know men......in 2011 for example, Nadal played pretty good both at Madrid and Rome and Novak was just too good in the pressure situations. Their baseline points were distributed even; very close to 50-50. By contrast, in Monte Carlos; Novak won over 60% of the baseline rallies which is unheard of for Rafa..especially in a final on any surface.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually. He played at a high enough level to beat anyone but Djokovic that day.

Nadal playing his worst clay tennis will pretty much beat anyone bar Djokovic on clay (exaggeration, but you know what i mean). So that remark doesn't say much.

Nadal wasn't allowed to play well, and even when he was, he didn't. So yeah, I don't think he played well, and saying "he didn't play bad at all" is a touch rich considering the standards we're used to seeing from him.

Can someone name anything GOOD that Nadal did in that match?

 

[huntingyou]

I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually. He played at a high enough level to beat anyone but Djokovic that day.

Nadal playing his worst clay tennis will pretty much beat anyone bar Djokovic on clay (exaggeration, but you know what i mean). So that remark doesn't say much.

Nadal wasn't allowed to play well, and even when he was, he didn't. So yeah, I don't think he played well, and saying "he didn't play bad at all" is a touch rich considering the standards we're used to seeing from him.

Can someone name anything GOOD that Nadal did in that match?

Just for perspective; get the stats for both Madrid and Rome 2011 and compare it to Monte Carlos this year.

My point stand, the worst final Rafa has ever played on clay outside from the Zeballos debacle.

Even in Madrid 2009 against Federer, Nadal's level was higher..........

 

[Front242]

I don't think Nadal played badly in the Monte Carlo final at all actually. He played at a high enough level to beat anyone but Djokovic that day.

Nadal playing his worst clay tennis will pretty much beat anyone bar Djokovic on clay (exaggeration, but you know what i mean). So that remark doesn't say much.

Nadal wasn't allowed to play well, and even when he was, he didn't. So yeah, I don't think he played well, and saying "he didn't play bad at all" is a touch rich considering the standards we're used to seeing from him.

Can someone name anything GOOD that Nadal did in that match?

Well the "wasn't allowed to play well and even when he was he didn't" fits today's match by Fed perfectly too. As for anything Nadal did well in Monte Carlo, he was outplayed for much of set 1 but he definitely played better in set 2 and I'm not naive enough to just go by the scoreline. I'd have to watch it again to see what he did well but imo it was more a case of a top performance by Djokovic than a bad day for Nadal. Naturally it can be both (again as with Nadal and Fed today) but I thought Nadal played pretty well in the MC final and was just outplayed.