Early Wimbledon Talk

[Carol]

Rafa will play an Exhibition next Monday and Friday in the Hurlingham Club of London

 

[rafanoy1992]

Guys, let's not get off-topic too much. This thread is about 2017 Wimbledon talk not who is the most dominant player from X year to Y year...

Besides, I feel like there a lot of threads for those discussions already

 

[Moxie]

Guys, let's not get off-topic too much. This thread is about 2017 Wimbledon talk not who is the most dominant player from X year to Y year...

Besides, I feel like there a lot of threads for those discussions already

Probably a good time to take this one to another thread. We're getting way into the weeds on this stuff.

 

[Carol]

Guys, let's not get off-topic too much. This thread is about 2017 Wimbledon talk not who is the most dominant player from X year to Y year...

Besides, I feel like there a lot of threads for those discussions already

Thanks! I'll see you in Wimbledon

 

[Moxie]

Probably a good time to take this one to another thread. We're getting way into the weeds on this stuff.

And we have: https://www.tennis-prose.com/tennisforum/threads/most-dominant-player.5527/

 

[isabelle]

Rafa will play an Exhibition next Monday and Friday in the Hurlingham Club of London

along with Milos and Jowill

 

[Carol]

along with Milos and Jowill

Right! and Ferrer, Haas, Berdych and Pouille

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

See, everyone is going to get some sort of practice

 

[the AntiPusher]

Murray and Raonic aren't too surprising. We already knew they are in a very weakened state this year. With Stan I wouldn't read too much into it, even on grass he's a legit contender at Wimbledon especially this year when not many are playing well. Kyrgios may be the biggest surprise of the day, the injury concern might be serious, and/or he is just being Nick and doesn't care about being on court. If he goes out early at Wimbledon there will be a lot of players breathing a big sigh of relief.

As for Roger there is only a concern, and a small one at that, if he loses early at Halle. Even then I think he can flip the switch at Wimbledon, he knows he should already have 8 or 9 Wimbledon's by now, it's not going to be so easy to wrestle it away from him this year.

I still would think Roger's biggest threat is a rejunivated Rafa and a possibility Eastbourne resurrected Novak. Roger is still 36 no matter how much he is able to keep FatherTime at bay. Rafa and Novak knows how to extend the points to make Roger hit another ball. Murray will need a Lendl based blood transfusion to make it to the 2nd round. If so, the crowd at Wimbledon can carry him to the semis.. Back to the championship, its always been about Roger, Rafa and Novak but Father Time will eventually have his meeting with Roger..

 

[DarthFed]

Novak isn't going to be rejuvenated for at least a few more months. I'd be surprised if he makes the semis and if he does play Fed I wouldn't be too worried. You don't go from zero to hero in 1-2 tourneys.

Overall main worry for Roger is a big hitter/server. Kyrgios, Zverev, and even guys like Raonic and Tsonga. If he makes the finals I don't see him stinking the place to high hell again.

36 or not he still has a lot of talent and he is making up for lost time so far this year with doing nothing big from 2013-2016. Past time for him to become king of Wimbledon with #8

 

[the AntiPusher]

Novak isn't going to be rejuvenated for at least a few more months. I'd be surprised if he makes the semis and if he does play Fed I wouldn't be too worried. You don't go from zero to hero in 1-2 tourneys.

Overall main worry for Roger is a big hitter/server. Kyrgios, Zverev, and even guys like Raonic and Tsonga. If he makes the finals I don't see him stinking the place to high hell again.

36 or not he still has a lot of talent and he is making up for lost time so far this year with doing nothing big from 2013-2016. Past time for him to become king of Wimbledon with #8

Roger went from 6 months off to AO championship. again.. there's nothing wrong physically with Djokovic. His problems has nothing to do with tennis. Novak knows if he ever has any opportunity to catch Roger, he cant' let Roger continue to gobble up gs titles especially his best , Wimbledon. Agassi will fix Novak's head for the forthnight and I look for a strong push from Novak. Don't worry Roger wont see him early but Roger's record vs Novak at gs the past 5 years has got to be huge issue.

 

[El Dude]

I was under the impression that Novak has lost a bit of speed. Often that is how decline works: you lose a bit off your skills, become frustrated, it erodes confidence, and it is a bit of a snowball effect. Add in Novak's other personal/mental problems, and the whole thing is exacerbated further.

But I'm just not sure I think we can say "there's nothing wrong physically with Djokovic." If you mean he isn't injured, sure. But if you mean his skills haven't eroded at all since 2015, not sure I agree. It might only be slight, but sometimes a fraction slow down makes a huge difference.

 

[El Dude]

Underlying theme of this thread: Roger fans trying to convince themselves and each other that no one is a serious threat, but secretly being terrified of Rafa and a touch afraid of Novak, and a few big hitters.

I personally can't wait to see the draws so we can speculate on which #100-200 player will take out Rafa in the first week.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I was under the impression that Novak has lost a bit of speed. Often that is how decline works: you lose a bit off your skills, become frustrated, it erodes confidence, and it is a bit of a snowball effect. Add in Novak's other personal/mental problems, and the whole thing is exacerbated further.

But I'm just not sure I think we can say "there's nothing wrong physically with Djokovic." If you mean he isn't injured, sure. But if you mean his skills haven't eroded at all since 2015, not sure I agree. It might only be slight, but sometimes a fraction slow down makes a huge difference.

Skills eroded since 2015, Heck Novak made all the gs finals except Wimbledon. El dude.. you dont loose a Major a step in less than a year. Novak isnt in cardio as he was a year ago. You said the same thing about Rafa loosing as step but it hasn't stopped him this year. WIth these guys its all about confidence which goes back to their mentality.

 

[DarthFed]

Not terrified of Roger vs. Rafa, more im afraid if Fed gets upset you could suddenly see him with a good chance to win it. Roger won't be weak as hell in a GS final with Rafa anymore, especially here.

And I'm not even slightly worried about Novak. It's more than just mental, he's lost a lot of fitness, you can see he isn't nearly as toned as before and his movement and power is way less.

 

[El Dude]

Skills eroded since 2015, Heck Novak made all the gs finals except Wimbledon. El dude.. you dont loose a Major a step in less than a year. Novak isnt in cardio as he was a year ago. You said the same thing about Rafa loosing as step but it hasn't stopped him this year. With these guys its all about confidence which goes back to their mentality.

Well, players like Roger, Rafa, and Novak are so good that they can lose a step and still be elite. Roger is 10 years removed from his peak, yet he is still one of the best in the sport. But all have "dark nights" where they have to adjust - like Roger in 2013, Rafa in 2015-16, and now Novak. It is almost like they have to say, "OK, I'm not the player I was, but I can still do this - I can still win and beat anyone; and more so, I want to." Maybe it is a crisis of confidence, because they can't quite reach the balls they used to be able to reach. But maybe they realize that they don't have to, to compete at the highest level. For example, I definitely see Rafa not going all out to return every single ball, like he used to five years ago. He lets some go and moves on to win in other ways.

With Novak, there's a real question as to how much he still wants it, or whether he'd prefer to be meditating on some beach and sending love vibes to Syria. Who knows, maybe he should do that. But right now it almost seems like he thinks he wants it more than he actually does.

Anyhow, to sum up, I think great players can plateau in their 30s if they are able to do all of the following:
1) They still love to play tennis and compete, even when not at their absolute peak
2) They are able and willing to adjust to an aging body
3) They can compensate for any physical decline with a strong mentality and/or other skills

Actually, all three are different sides of the same thing. I'm reminded of what some say, that 50-70 are the best years of life, if one accepts and embraces middle age and all it has to offer. Some even say that 70+ are the best years, because a lot of the non-essential bullshit drops away and life can finally be enjoyed as life (I'm in my 40s, so can't really speak from personal experience yet!). But even more so, a 70+ year old must accept their physical limitations and whatever issues they have to deal with.

But unlike Roger in 2013 or Rafa in 2015-16, it isn't clear whether that first component is still there for Novak. He might say it is, but I'm not sure that it actually is.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Well, players like Roger, Rafa, and Novak are so good that they can lose a step and still be elite. Roger is 10 years removed from his peak, yet he is still one of the best in the sport. But all have "dark nights" where they have to adjust - like Roger in 2013, Rafa in 2015-16, and now Novak. It is almost like they have to say, "OK, I'm not the player I was, but I can still do this - I can still win and beat anyone; and more so, I want to." Maybe it is a crisis of confidence, because they can't quite reach the balls they used to be able to reach. But maybe they realize that they don't have to, to compete at the highest level. For example, I definitely see Rafa not going all out to return every single ball, like he used to five years ago. He lets some go and moves on to win in other ways.

With Novak, there's a real question as to how much he still wants it, or whether he'd prefer to be meditating on some beach and sending love vibes to Syria. Who knows, maybe he should do that. But right now it almost seems like he thinks he wants it more than he actually does.

Anyhow, to sum up, I think great players can plateau in their 30s if they are able to do all of the following:
1) They still love to play tennis and compete, even when not at their absolute peak
2) They are able and willing to adjust to an aging body
3) They can compensate for any physical decline with a strong mentality and/or other skills

Actually, all three are different sides of the same thing. I'm reminded of what some say, that 50-70 are the best years of life, if one accepts and embraces middle age and all it has to offer. Some even say that 70+ are the best years, because a lot of the non-essential bullshit drops away and life can finally be enjoyed as life (I'm in my 40s, so can't really speak from personal experience yet!). But even more so, a 70+ year old must accept their physical limitations and whatever issues they have to deal with.

But unlike Roger in 2013 or Rafa in 2015-16, it isn't clear whether that first component is still there for Novak. He might say it is, but I'm not sure that it actually is.

Again, Novak's issues has nothing to do with the game of tennis..go search for some statements from Annacone or Agassi , they mentioned Novak's desire is still there but his head is messed up.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Not terrified of Roger vs. Rafa, more im afraid if Fed gets upset you could suddenly see him with a good chance to win it. Roger won't be weak as hell in a GS final with Rafa anymore, especially here.

And I'm not even slightly worried about Novak. It's more than just mental, he's lost a lot of fitness, you can see he isn't nearly as toned as before and his movement and power is way less.

Rafa and team just got out executed and foxed by Roger and Luby. Since the spring Rafa and team have put in the proper counters regardless of the surface to counter Roger's juiced up backhand, early strike tennis and shorten back swing for the return of service. Rafa lacked Confidence (how to win a Grand Slam championship) in that match vs Roger.

Roger has been designated as the favorite before vs Novak on the grass and we know the results.

 

[atttomole]

Rafa and team just got out executed and foxed by Roger and Luby. Since the spring Rafa and team have put in the proper counters regardless of the surface to counter Roger's juiced up backhand, early strike tennis and shorten back swing for the return of service. Rafa lacked Confidence (how to win a Grand Slam championship) in that match vs Roger.

Roger has been designated as the favorite before vs Novak on the grass and we know the results.

I am surprised that you seem to like Novak again, now that Wimbledon is upon us..

 

[atttomole]

Is there any information on whether they have changed the grass, or not, for this year's Wimbledon?