Djokovic v del Potro - Shanghai Final

[Denis]

^ yeah right. Ferrer has been very competitive against Nadal and Djokovic. All those exciting GS matches between Ferrer and Nadal and Ferrer and Djokovic. Exhilarating. Great track record too. It's not just that Ferrer has beaten Nadal and Djokovic a few odd times in unimportant matches, but actually when it really counts. Unlike DP.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Missed the match. Was it as good as the scoreline indicates?

yes, del potro was flat on the first set, a bit of a hangover from his demolition of nadal less than 18hrs beforehand..after that it was evenstevens.

a late seasoni classic and a good end to the 5th edition of the flowering shanghai masters. although I was wanting del potro to win his first masters seeing as djokovic had 14 already but....no dice.

 

[herios]

^ yeah right. Ferrer has been very competitive against Nadal and Djokovic. All those exciting GS matches between Ferrer and Nadal and Ferrer and Djokovic. Exhilarating. Great track record too. It's not just that Ferrer has beaten Nadal and Djokovic a few odd times in unimportant matches, but actually when it really counts. Unlike DP.

Defeating Nadal at the USO is not important. Sure. :lolz:

 

[Kieran]

I think Ferrer beat DP in straights at Wimbo a couple years ago too. The fella has form, he deserves his berth at the table....

 

[Denis]

I was being sarcastic. You're not taking my argument serious which is fine: it only discredits yourself.

I agree with you that the Big 4 no longer exists unless Federer somehow miraculously recovers from where he is now. But I don't agree with your assessment that there is a Big 3 + Ferrer coming after that. I think Del Potro occupies Ferrers spot in terms of 'greatness' at this moment. He is much more able than Ferrer to beat the top players. He has also won the US Open by beating Nadal and Federer consecutively. When has Ferrer ever done that at a Slam? When has Ferrer won a Slam?

And Del Potro is certainly not a one slam wonder. He is much younger than Ferrer but already has gotten extremely good results. But more importantly, he has a game which has much more potential than the Golden Retriever type of game Ferrer has with a nice inside-out forehand. Ferrer is a very good tennis player, but I would not list him above Del Potro.

Besides, the US Open and AO matches don't compensate for the long list of non-competitive matches between Ferrer and Nadal/Djokovic/Federer.

 

[Denis]

I think Ferrer beat DP in straights at Wimbo a couple years ago too. The fella has form, he deserves his berth at the table....

He does. But I don't think you can place him above DP in terms of ability and results. That's my point.

DP beat him in straights this year at Wimby btw. Their H2H is interestingly in favour of Ferrer:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F401&oId=D683

 

[Kieran]

No, I agree with that. At the very highest level, DP has a shot, once he gets there. In any slam final against the top players, I imagine Ferrer would be the same as this years RG...

 

[NADAL2005RG]

The Djokovic-Del Potro and the Djokovic-Wawrinka rivalries are both fascinating. The pendulum is poised to swing on both.

 

[Riotbeard]

No, I agree with that. At the very highest level, DP has a shot, once he gets there. In any slam final against the top players, I imagine Ferrer would be the same as this years RG...

I think this is all anybody is saying. Nobody is saying Ferrer can't play or hasn't made the maximum use of his abilities.

 

[herios]

I think Ferrer beat DP in straights at Wimbo a couple years ago too. The fella has form, he deserves his berth at the table....

He does. But I don't think you can place him above DP in terms of ability and results. That's my point.

DP beat him in straights this year at Wimby btw. Their H2H is interestingly in favour of Ferrer:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F401&oId=D683

Mt whole point is, what matters the most are the results, rather than the abilities. I am a big fan of Delpo, in fact, but I am critical of him, because he had not come close to his potential. I hope he turns the corner soon, because the way he beat Nadal, is very reminiscent of his old 2009 version and that type of play on a regular basis would threaten any player in the world.
I really hope he brings it big comes London and similar to 2009, he would make the final.

 

[Denis]

I think Ferrer beat DP in straights at Wimbo a couple years ago too. The fella has form, he deserves his berth at the table....

He does. But I don't think you can place him above DP in terms of ability and results. That's my point.

DP beat him in straights this year at Wimby btw. Their H2H is interestingly in favour of Ferrer:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F401&oId=D683

Mt whole point is, what matters the most are the results, rather than the abilities. I am a big fan of Delpo, in fact, but I am critical of him, because he had not come close to his potential. I hope he turns the corner soon, because the way he beat Nadal, is very reminiscent of his old 2009 version and that type of play on a regular basis would threaten any player in the world.
I really hope he brings it big comes London and similar to 2009, he would make the final.

Yeah, I thought you would be referring to results and I know you are one of the biggest DP fans here, but I think there can be a nuance in terms of different types of results. Ferrer is obviously very consistent and fully deserves to be ranked no 3. However, I think DP shows a bit more potential in terms of 'big' results than Ferrer.

Anyhow, I also disagree more fundamentally by qualifying Big 4 or Big 3 + someone only in terms of results. I think ability and potential also matters. So thats why I would say Big 3 + DP. Isnt this Big 4 language used in terms of results, ability and potential anyhow? Even if it is solely based on results (at Slams I imagine?) I'd still list DP above Ferrer because of the reason stated above.