Covid vaccine - opinions?
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Front242
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I was going to reply to all this but I gave up when you said we'd have a similar outcome to the Spanish flu which was a real and very deadly pandemic....You're making up the numbers. Yours "99.97% survival rate" is absolute hand-waving, alternative reality rubbish. The latest stats:
You can easily calculate: 4.6M deaths / 200M recovered = 2.3%
COVID Live Update: 180,845,468 Cases and 3,917,897 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer
Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...www.worldometers.info
The percentage is high enough (some 100 times more likely than from flu & pneumonia combined with 15 Deaths per 100,000 population, so some 0.01-0.02%) as to warrant the efforts to suppress it via social contact restrictions or vaccines (even if only partially effective, better partial efficacy than none at all).
If we didn't try to suppress it we would see the outcome similar to the one of Spanish Flu 100y ago.FastStats - Influenza
www.cdc.gov
Even the survivors of Covid often experience long tail with heart and memory problems, so hard to say their "natural immunity" gained through such degradation of life quality (and possibly life shortened in the end) is "fine". No it is not!
I don't wish anyone bad, but perhaps your opinion is influenced by the idea that Covid is the disease of old and those with underlying conditions, and if you're young and healthy your immune system will cope no problem. BS: listen to those who were thinking like you but got unlucky to catch long covid (those who died don't speak anymore), and imagine being in their shoes.
Anyway, you can use this to see just how scary this virus isn't for the majority...
https://www.qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=/Calculation
I posted this before and here's what my own risk came out as so no this is not alternative reality rubbish. That's actually reserved for what the media are telling you which is the complete opposite, that every Tom, Dick and Harry needs a vaccine against this virus which is total and utter bs. Elderly people with underlying conditions, overweight or obese are at highest risk. Most others are fine.
The risk table
The table shows the absolute risk of catching and dying COVID-19 over a 90-day period based on data from the first peak of the pandemic. There is a comparison with the risk for a person of the same age and sex but with no risk factors. The relative risk is the absolute risk divided by this average risk.I have a 1 in 30303 chance of death from covid, which is basically the same odds as an anvil falling out of the sky Tom and Jerry style and hitting me on the head. This media bore about long covid is laughable also as post viral recovery syndrome is not something new like they'd have you believe...
If you end up fatigued afer catching it, take more B vitamins, vitamin D, zinc, magnesium or even guarana and ginseng but people should take good vitamins anyway. There are tons of things to take to improve your immune system but the media don't promote this at all as it makes no one any money....
| Absolute risk (a) | Absolute risk with no risk factors (b) | Relative risk (a/b) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| COVID associated death | 0.0033% | 1 in 30303 | 0.0033% | 1 in 30303 | 1 |
| COVID associated hospital admission | 0.0416% | 1 in 2404 | 0.0431% | 1 in 2320 | 0.9652 |
In other words in a crowd of 10000 people with the same risk factors, 1 or less are likely to catch and die from COVID-19 and 4 to be admitted to hospital during a 90 day period similar to the recent peak.
The Body Mass index is 23.8 kg/m2
Based on the above, please tell me why in the name of Odin's beard I would need any vaccine against this...
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the AntiPusher
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Again. It anyone deserves their right to face every strain or variant form of covid-19 virus without the aid of a VACCINE it's you Front. I don't understand why it's so important for you to discourage others..What are you afraid of? What's your end game ? You want to have your Right but you don't want others to have theirs. May I inquire, why this is so obvious?
Front242
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So you keep saying as I've lost count how many times you've posted that now. I'm not discouraging anyone. It's a discussion thread. You want the vaccine, I don't. Since it's a discussion thread, I'm telling why I don't and why in fact the majority don't need any vaccine for covid based on facts and because this is a global scam and I've no idea how you think I'm saying people don't have the right to do what they choose. Bizarre interpretation if ever there was one. The masses are blinded by the media lies and trust their governments, the same corrupt people who don't give a shit about them. That's down to individual choice at the end of the day. I'm happy facing every strain of this virus which I've never got yet since they're constantly getting weaker as that is the way viruses mutate. They get more transmissible and less deadly. People are scared silly of a runny nose, blocked nose or a headache, 'cos those are the most common symptoms for the majority who catch covid.
People have become so afraid of dying, they've stopped living....
Not me.
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the AntiPusher
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It takes ONLY one post to say Ney to the vaccine. Yet you have over a hundred.. Explain
Front242
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I shouldn't need to explain but since you've asked, when people post crap, I reply. That's what people do on forums.
the AntiPusher
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No. You just keep dumpster of sewage of unsubstantiated information that really has been unsubscribed too..Yes Tented and other have provided you with proven Facts but you keep coming back with stuff from unvetted sources.
britbox
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You have answered my question mate. Thanks. A year or so ago, people were telling me that one shot wouldn't be enough, it would then be two, then it would be a booster, the two boosters, then three... then vaccine passports, then digital IDs linked to vaccine passports... at the time they were dismissed as "conspiracy theorists". I didn't dismiss them because I saw a lot of really high profile doctors and professionals "removed" (censored) by Big Tech, Wikipedia pages being rewritten, reputations smashed... and many more red flags... too many to mention. We're not talking about "unvetted sources" here my friend... we're talking about Nobel Laureates in medicine, leaders in their fields... upto 18 months ago. Step out of the matrix.
the AntiPusher
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You're welcome Sir Barron. I respect your opinion. Have a great day .
tented
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It is realistic for some vaccinations to wear off. For example, I was vaccinated against hepatitis B & C about 10 years ago, but had blood work done last month, and discovered I was no longer immune to hepatitis B, so my doctor said I would need to get a booster. Here are his exact words from the message he sent: “Not an uncommon thing to happen, for whatever reason the immunity can wane over time.” So, I’m not surprised people will need boosters against a virus which changes. Just as people need flu vaccines every year, because those viruses change too.
However, I’m also highly suspicious of anything involving Big Pharma. COVID has provided the proverbial gold mine for them, and if we know anything, drug companies are always ready to step in and take advantage of situations. It’s no coincidence, IMO, a disease hasn’t been eradicated since smallpox, in the late 70s. Forty-plus years with no other diseases completely cured. Big Pharma doesn’t make money when people are healthy. So, I’m not surprised people will need boosters against a virus which changes, because Big Pharma wouldn’t make money if no one needed to be inoculated again.
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the AntiPusher
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Kieran
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As somebody who is vaccinated and then subsequently caught Covid, I can personally testify to the mysteriousness of both the vaccine and the virus. I don't think we should assume anything of either, and certainly not in black and white terms. I have huge sympathy for what @Front242 is saying, particularly since we're both in Ireland, which suffered the most barbaric, idiotic lockdown in the EU, are now among the highest numbers in the EU vaccinated - and are also among the highest numbers of people infected.
A huge amount of the damage inflicted can be avoided if we have wise and brave governments, something we haven't had in Ireland in my lifetime. And when Front mentions that "people are afraid of dying", he hits on a truth that pervades the West: we don't talk enough about death, and its inevitability. It's a morbid taboo subject, made like this because we've ceased to be spiritual people, and instead become materialists.
I got the vaccine not because I felt vulnerable to the virus, but because my nephews and nieces were stuck in a limbo, their lives on hold while the unaccountable donkeys that govern us made up ever more implausible control-freak ways to avoid letting them loose. I don't regret getting the vaccine, but I also don't think we should be politicising it in the way we are. In America, it seems that every topic falls onto a pre-existing divide, so if the issue was, should the toilet roll hang exterior, or or interior, people would examine it very minutely and conclude that after studying the science and applying Reason with a Capital-R, that the political party their mammies and daddies, and grandma and grandad, voted for were indeed once again correct, and that the other bunch are vile, depraved nazis. But politicising everything has achieved zilch. It only emphasises the divide, but actually helps nobody.
I have sympathy with people who have chosen not to become vaccinated, either because - as Front says - they're just not sure about the vaccines on offer, despite being pro-vaccine for other ailments, or because a person may have autoimmune conditions that make them feel equally vulnerable to both virus and vaccine. Or people who believe - with good reason - that their own immune system is vaccine enough against the virus, and have often been vindicated by this view.
There are good arguments for not introducing a vaccine while the virus is still in flux, but so far they don't hold. The virus isn't mutating - yet - to become immune to the vaccines. But the nature of viruses is that they simply battle to survive before eventually naturally expiring, and so we know this one will head that direction too.
I also feel that having the vaccine protected me against the worst of Covid, in that I caught a mild dose. But I say that without any real science to back it up, because both virus and vaccine are personal experiences. A more healthy friend of mine had bad effects from the vaccine, but I had none. A less healthy friend of mine caught virus before he was vaccinated and had fewer symptoms than I had, though I'm vaccinated. So it's impossible for me to say that being vaccinated protected me from a worse dose of the bug, but I suspect it did.
I have great sympathy also with @tented remarks about Big Pharma. We see the profits they made and the lack of collaboration between them to create an even greater vaccine that serves humanity even more. This issue isn't simple and if we remove party politics from it, and look at it objectively, we might look at it differently than just to spout what we're allowed to spout...
A huge amount of the damage inflicted can be avoided if we have wise and brave governments, something we haven't had in Ireland in my lifetime. And when Front mentions that "people are afraid of dying", he hits on a truth that pervades the West: we don't talk enough about death, and its inevitability. It's a morbid taboo subject, made like this because we've ceased to be spiritual people, and instead become materialists.
I got the vaccine not because I felt vulnerable to the virus, but because my nephews and nieces were stuck in a limbo, their lives on hold while the unaccountable donkeys that govern us made up ever more implausible control-freak ways to avoid letting them loose. I don't regret getting the vaccine, but I also don't think we should be politicising it in the way we are. In America, it seems that every topic falls onto a pre-existing divide, so if the issue was, should the toilet roll hang exterior, or or interior, people would examine it very minutely and conclude that after studying the science and applying Reason with a Capital-R, that the political party their mammies and daddies, and grandma and grandad, voted for were indeed once again correct, and that the other bunch are vile, depraved nazis. But politicising everything has achieved zilch. It only emphasises the divide, but actually helps nobody.
I have sympathy with people who have chosen not to become vaccinated, either because - as Front says - they're just not sure about the vaccines on offer, despite being pro-vaccine for other ailments, or because a person may have autoimmune conditions that make them feel equally vulnerable to both virus and vaccine. Or people who believe - with good reason - that their own immune system is vaccine enough against the virus, and have often been vindicated by this view.
There are good arguments for not introducing a vaccine while the virus is still in flux, but so far they don't hold. The virus isn't mutating - yet - to become immune to the vaccines. But the nature of viruses is that they simply battle to survive before eventually naturally expiring, and so we know this one will head that direction too.
I also feel that having the vaccine protected me against the worst of Covid, in that I caught a mild dose. But I say that without any real science to back it up, because both virus and vaccine are personal experiences. A more healthy friend of mine had bad effects from the vaccine, but I had none. A less healthy friend of mine caught virus before he was vaccinated and had fewer symptoms than I had, though I'm vaccinated. So it's impossible for me to say that being vaccinated protected me from a worse dose of the bug, but I suspect it did.
I have great sympathy also with @tented remarks about Big Pharma. We see the profits they made and the lack of collaboration between them to create an even greater vaccine that serves humanity even more. This issue isn't simple and if we remove party politics from it, and look at it objectively, we might look at it differently than just to spout what we're allowed to spout...
Front242
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Fair enough with 10 years later maybe needing a booster but not 6 months. Covid is a money driven corrupt scam and a ton of people are getting even more filthy rich than they already were. The last line reinforces what I said in one of my own posts earlier in this thread, that it's all about all money and not health. There's no push for natural immunity 'cos it makes no one any money.
Front242
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Your facts are from mainstream media that is being constantly censored to push the vaccine driven agenda. Your so called vetted sources are sites being paid massive money to push the vaccine agenda. Quite honestly, it's impossible to tell which facts are facts so basically you stick with your facts and I'll stick with mine but I'll tell you one actual genuine fact, I'll be just fine with no vaccine as will millions worldwide. Some can choose to get pumped full of experimental crap they don't need with zero studies for long term side effects for years to come but not me thanks. No need. If you don't see me on this forum in 10 years, I'm dead 'cos I promise I won't just stop posting though I'll definitely be posting less with all the big 3 gone from tennis.
the AntiPusher
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tented
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Big Pharma Companies Earn More Profits Than Most Other Industries, Study Suggests
What’s the quote? Something like “The answer to 99 out of 100 questions is money.”
Kieran
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There’s plenty of money to be made by keeping people unhealthy, and as disturbing as the tribal politicising of Covid is the commodification of the vaccines. As I’ve often said, the EU, as the biggest market, should have insisted the big pharmaceutical companies collaborate to share information and create the best vaccine for defeating the virus, but they obviously don’t think we’re in big enough an emergency for that to happen…
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But I disagree that they haven't been collaborating on bringing out the vaccine. I think it is cynical to say so. I am no fan of Big Pharma, but I do believe they have been joining forces on the vaccine. I'm attaching a link to a story on the Sanofi Pasteur/GSK one, which is the trial that I am in. But I understand that, in the interim, them have been using the formulas of others and their ability to produce them, to get vaccines out there. And I don't think any of them is looking to be proprietary, they are just trying to get as much vaccine as possible out to the world, and they are doing trials to figure out what works, and what combinations might work best. https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...aceutical-giants-collaborating-to-develop-one
Kieran
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Why would you use the word “cynical”? It seems such a definitive and limiting term to use. Have Pfizer and AstraZeneca collaborated? Moderna and Johnson and Johnson? These are the vaccines on offer in the EU and there are competing claims as to whether if you got your first jab from one, it can be completed by the other, along other noticeable differences between the vaccines. Debates about side effects and efficacy. This is the thing I’m talking about. I know there’s have been lower level collaborations and some sharing of ideas, biontech working with Pfizer etc, but at this level, and there is often a sense of chaos, misinformation and mistrust that effectively mean that the vaccines seem to be in competition.
This hasn’t had an effect of inspiring people who are unsure about the vaccines to take a leap of faith. When doctors differ, patients die, and in this case I think, the doctors might have been told to meet quietly and pool their expertise…
monfed
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Just like you took the polio vaccine and every other vaccine, take the covid vaccine so we can eradicate it asap. This is not some restriction on your freedom just like wearing a seatbelt isn't. It's called safety. I think anti-vaxxers need mental help more than covid help.