Cincinnati Quarterfinal: Federer/Nadal

[DarthFed]

Even though Fed played quite good today, do u guys think he has enough
fuel for five set matches under his current physical conditions.. He had hard
time keeping his level in 3rd set itself.

No he does not. And you need more than 1.5 good sets to win at slams. I still think Roger will be heading home before the QF or he will be a sacrificial lamb in one of them. Time to hit the reset button and get 2013 out of his mind. His crowning achievement appears to be a loss to a guy who has never done anything in Cincy.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Cali, I want you to write here the formula...how Roger should play Rafa to beat him every single time. And please allow me to pick it apart. Go.

 

[Mog]

Even though Fed played quite good today, do u guys think he has enough
fuel for five set matches under his current physical conditions.. He had hard
time keeping his level in 3rd set itself.

You have a point there. But Roger has to start match fast getting say first tow sets and then he could pull it physically in 4. Usually it gets tough at QF and further. But who knows. Roger if playing at such level could give everything he has in his tank to add USO.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nice match, fedal never fails!

Too bad it had to end with a Rafa error that fed didn't challenge!

The margin for error on Hawkeye is 3.6mms (was in the NYT today.) Surely that was within it. Meaning that there could be a reason Fed didn't challenge.

I'd be shocked if his vision is that sharp. If it's within these 3.6mms, it's worth a challenge. He had nothing to lose by challenging. He should have.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Players are there to play, not referee. Challenge system is a bad one.

 

[britbox]

Ever heard of a down-the-line forehand?

In the great scheme of things how often are you in a position to hit a DTL forehand?

If you're controlling the point, the way to go is try and pin Nadal deep on the backhand. If he's stepping back across, keep going back behind him. He hit quite a few UFE's himself there by trying to do to much with it when lost patience. Once you're putting him out of court then go back cross court. Federer did that quite often tonight with quite a lot of success. Djokovic does it/did it quite a lot also.

Obviously, You've got to be controlling the point in the first place.

Federer's main problem was getting the ball away from the Nadal forehand when he was defending. Largely because Nadal as always was going after Fed's backhand - moreso as the match went on.

Where Federer fell a little short for me was ROS. Particularly on the second serve. He did go very agressive on a couple in third set - going inside out. He needs to be more aggressive in that department.

Otherwise, I don't think he did a whole lot wrong. The match swung on a couple of games.

 

[DarthFed]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Cali, I want you to write here the formula...how Roger should play Rafa to beat him every single time. And please allow me to pick it apart. Go.

murat.. why would you subject yourself to such foolishness.. There has got to be an area in your home that may need a new coat of paint. please do that and watch it dry instead of responding to another tiresome post from that poster about how derelict he feels Fed was against Rafa.

 

[britbox]

Yeah, he should have challenged, but put it in perspective... some people think it's some cast iron guarantee he'd have broken serve. Based on what transpired the rest of the match, it's a low probability.

Glad to see him fight to the death though - showed a lot of desire.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

That is my point. There are countless lines people and a head umpire and an electronic system watching the play..why the hell is it on the player to check his own lines, ESPECIALLY on a match point? a players job is to play...

 

[DarthFed]

No he wouldn't have broken but it is common sense to challenge anything remotely close.

 

[Front242]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

Exactly. I mean you often see players smiling at the net ready for the handshake and one guy challenges. You can't take them with you so use them up!

 

[the AntiPusher]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

Correct.. Roger ran off the court like my emotional 16 year old daughter would do. if he kept his head and would have had the common sense to not get caught up in the moment, he could have challenge.. I would like to hear what he is going to say in his pressor

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Cali, I want you to write here the formula...how Roger should play Rafa to beat him every single time. And please allow me to pick it apart. Go.

murat.. why would you subject yourself to such foolishness.. There has got to be an area in your home that may need a new coat of paint. please do that and watch it dry instead of responding to another tiresome post from that poster about how derelict he feels Fed was against Rafa.

AP you are right brother. Cali, ignore me please, I was not serious

 

[DarthFed]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

That is my point. There are countless lines people and a head umpire and an electronic system watching the play..why the hell is on the player to check his own lines, ESPECIALLY on a match point? a players job is to play...

I hear you but if they looked at the replay everytime there is a close play on the lines, every match would take 6 hours.

 

[britbox]

Maybe if Hawkeye beeped like Cyclops used to do on net cords (even if it was just in the ump's earpiece) it might be of more assistance. Seems like they aren't using technology to it's full advantage.

 

[calitennis127]

Cali, I want you to write here the formula...how Roger should play Rafa to beat him every single time. And please allow me to pick it apart. Go.

Lovely. It's nice to see that you're actually willing to have a debate and have your views challenged by someone who gets on your nerves.

There are a number of items on the list:

1) The BH return: I know that Nadal does a good job of mixing up his serve placement and making Federer guess, particularly on crucial points. However, the fact of the matter is, Nadal most of the time serves to the Federer backhand and this is no secret to either player. A couple rules for Federer to follow are:

a) stop slicing unless you have to because it is that wide. The few times that the slice works are poisonous to Federer because he thinks he can go back to it. Get away from the slice.

b) generally return to the Nadal BH if you can, but most importantly hit with depth.

c) try to run around the BH more and punish weaker serves.

Overall, there is no excuse for the inconsistency Federer displays with the backhand return. It is simply a matter of reflex and neurological programming. A 45-year-old can improve his skills. At 32 and with world-class athleticism, Federer certainly can too. Moreover, Federer doesn't need to "improve" his skills so much as sharpen them just a tad. This is a matter of repetition.

2) Keep up the good serving. Today he did that very well.

3) Get away from over-using the CC forehand. This is probably the most important item on the list, even more so than the BH return. On hardcourts, Federer wastes a number of opportunities for easy winners by hitting behind Nadal (because Nadal always gets to those balls), and on clay he simply dooms his chances by doing this nonsense. Hitting the CC forehand as much as he does against Nadal makes it downright impossible for him to beat Nadal on clay. Just impossible.

Now, the DTL forehand and the inside-out from the middle of the court work splendidly whenever Federer does it. The problem is he doesn't do it nearly enough. It is NOT low-percentage the way BS asserts; saying it is low-percentage is indeed BS. What is low-percentage is continuing the "mix it up" nonsense.

4) On short balls, go for winners every time. Yes, you will lose some with unforced errors, but so be it. On balance, if you commit to assertively and authoritatively going for winners off of all short balls, you will succeed far more than you fail if you're Federer (because Federer has terrific shotmaking capabilities), and you will set a tone for how the match is going to be played that Nadal simply has to live with. You keep the match on Roger Federer terms and off of Rafael Nadal terms.




Those 4 items are key....others I can probably think of.

 

[Mog]

If they left it all to the linespeople and the chair ump it'd be a lot worse. The replay system may be flawed but it's there for reasons like this. It's all on Roger to challenge, it was match point. I don't think there is a bigger point for him to hold onto his challenges for.

Agreed.
Replay system is good in most and gives some balance to justification.
The last close point in general should always be challanged by a player, nothing to lose there.
I believe that challanges should be incresed from 3 to 5 per set. It doesn not take too much time, actually less than ball bouncing.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Even though Fed played quite good today, do u guys think he has enough
fuel for five set matches under his current physical conditions.. He had hard
time keeping his level in 3rd set itself.

No he does not. And you need more than 1.5 good sets to win at slams. I still think Roger will be heading home before the QF or he will be a sacrificial lamb in one of them. Time to hit the reset button and get 2013 out of his mind. His crowning achievement appears to be a loss to a guy who has never done anything in Cincy.

what about the last 3 games of the match. Roger played well.. Roger still has the ability to win and it took an Herculean effort by Rafa to win this match. Don't be disrespectful Darth.. What else could Roger done.. He is playing against someone that is an incredible bad match up him , plain and simple

 

[ClayDeath]

they could play again at WTF.


this does show that roger can still play at an unbelievably high level.


clay warrior had to earn it. nobody gave it away to him.


roger`s game plan against nadal has to be somewhat high risk. there is no other way. he cant deal with nadal off the ground.

only way is to go for your shots and try to take time away from him. you serve big and you hit as big as you can off your forehand wing like roger did.


roger is not playing bad. nadal had to dig in deep for this one.