Cincinnati MS 1000 Final 2018 - Federer v. Djokovic

[DarthFed]

Don't you think age could be an issue as well?

Of course, but unlike some Rafa and Nole fans will tell you, age has long been an issue for Roger. He isn't going to move like he's 25 and he doesn't recover from long matches as quickly. But he is still more than skilled enough to win big events. He's got to figure out his issues and the cause of them. It was easily the worst returning I've ever seen from him and his baseline game was erratic as well.

 

[El Dude]

Don't you think age could be an issue as well?

Age means you generally have to work harder (and/or smarter). Lack of motivation means you tend not to work as hard.

 

[Moxie]

Yes I do think there has been a dropoff in motivation after Fed won #20 and got back to #1. It's pretty understandable. I'm a greedy bastard and even I understand that part of it . These guys are human, we saw Djoker go through the same thing after winning RG in 2016. Maybe it was even part of it for Rafa in his down years though it didn't seem as pronounced as Fed getting to #20 and Djoker finally getting RG and having all 4 at once.

Fair enough. It's true that Djoker had a big drop in intensity after he won RG '16. Rafa did talk about a lack of motivation at one point, too, though I think his slump became more about self-doubt after injuries. Anyway, it was generous of you to say that. OK, so Roger has to dig deep into the well of motivation again.

 

[lob]

I think you're right, that a straight set loss to Stan or Goffin may have been preferable to wake him up. But we know Roger doesn't play for second place, especially at events he has owned. The question is whether he is embarrassed by this and it motivates him to play better. If this week wasn't a wake up call after Wimbledon then we know what the biggest problem is...

Darth, the dude is 37. Thirty Seven. And a father of four children. Now, I get it that sports conditioning has extended career spans but there is a very big difference between 31 and 37. On top of that Djokovic and Nadal play a higher percentage game. Roger's game is at the mercy of his timing.

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, the dude is 37. Thirty Seven. And a father of four children. Now, I get it that sports conditioning has extended career spans but there is a very big difference between 31 and 37. On top of that Djokovic and Nadal play a higher percentage game. Roger's game is at the mercy of his timing.

The guy was 36 when he had a really bad Montreal tournament last year and he was about 6 months older when he won AO earlier this year while not dropping a set until the final.

Sure he is only getting older but we are not talking your typical tennis player here. He is still capable of playing a lot better than this. I won't believe he's done until he retires but there are going to be really down periods in his play. And this is one of those.

 

[Fiero425]

Darth, the dude is 37. Thirty Seven. And a father of four children. Now, I get it that sports conditioning has extended career spans but there is a very big difference between 31 and 37. On top of that Djokovic and Nadal play a higher percentage game. Roger's game is at the mercy of his timing.

Oh Gawd; let's not go to the age card! Maybe Roger should retire if his fans and support staff start using that as an excuse for looking this bad! TI really thought he'd have a better showing, probably winning in 3 sets! After Nole won the 1st set, I thought he had a chance finally to claim this title! This has just been one of the strangest seasons; even more so than 2017 with the resurgence of Fedal! :whistle:

 

[monfed]

Fed is so unlucky too. Gets a peaking delshitro at IW and a zoning faker who has been mostly shit all year turns up in the final. Contrast that to dull who got a youngster like sitsipas in the final.

This is the difference essentially.

 

[monfed]

The guy was 36 when he had a really bad Montreal tournament last year and he was about 6 months older when he won AO earlier this year while not dropping a set until the final.

Sure he is only getting older but we are not talking your typical tennis player here. He is still capable of playing a lot better than this. I won't believe he's done until he retires but there are going to be really down periods in his play. And this is one of those.

Cmon. 36-37 is terminal decline for this era, in the earlier eras it was about 30-31. Your expectations are unrealistic. Fed is done. Just accept it.

 

[lob]

Fair enough. It's true that Djoker had a big drop in intensity after he won RG '16. Rafa did talk about a lack of motivation at one point, too, though I think his slump became more about self-doubt after injuries. Anyway, it was generous of you to say that. OK, so Roger has to dig deep into the well of motivation again.

The thing about motivation is that it cannot be conjured at will. For 15 years now there has been no better motivation in tennis than beating Roger Federer. I am guessing that both Nadal and Djokovic will both retire soon after Roger. Nadal will hang in there to get to 21. Djokovic will likely retire very soon after Nadal does.

 

[Moxie]

Of course, but unlike some Rafa and Nole fans will tell you, age has long been an issue for Roger. He isn't going to move like he's 25 and he doesn't recover from long matches as quickly. But he is still more than skilled enough to win big events. He's got to figure out his issues and the cause of them. It was easily the worst returning I've ever seen from him and his baseline game was erratic as well.

I hope you don't include me in those that don't recognize Roger's age as a factor. It's just that you pick and choose when to call him "geriatric," and that has been going on for a long time.

Darth, the dude is 37. Thirty Seven. And a father of four children. Now, I get it that sports conditioning has extended career spans but there is a very big difference between 31 and 37. On top of that Djokovic and Nadal play a higher percentage game. Roger's game is at the mercy of his timing.

I think timing is a good point, because the speed of the footwork goes, a bit. It was one of Djokovic's problems when he was on his walkabout, and we've seen it in Rafa, too. I take Darth's point that Roger isn't just "anyone," so he'll go through ups and downs. It'll be a question of the other kind of timing as to when they come for him.

 

[El Dude]

I accepted that Fed was "done" five years ago.

 

[Moxie]

The thing about motivation is that it cannot be conjured at will. For 15 years now there has been no better motivation in tennis than beating Roger Federer. I am guessing that both Nadal and Djokovic will both retire soon after Roger. Nadal will hang in there to get to 21. Djokovic will likely retire very soon after Nadal does.

Understood. Roger claims to love the game, and I believe he does, but everyone has to get up most every day and train. He's been doing it a long time. And with 4 kids and 20 Majors (+ loads of other records,) surely motivation wanes. Lots of folks like to say that Rafa will retire shortly after Roger does. I dunno. As you also say, Rafa will hang in to beat Roger's record at Majors, maybe. And maybe Djokovic will be driven by the numbers to hang in, too. There're only so many carrots you can hold in front of players that have won so much. We'll see.

 

[DarthFed]

I hope you don't include me in those that don't recognize Roger's age as a factor. It's just that you pick and choose when to call him "geriatric," and that has been going on for a long time.

I think timing is a good point, because the speed of the footwork goes, a bit. It was one of Djokovic's problems when he was on his walkabout, and we've seen it in Rafa, too. I take Darth's point that Roger isn't just "anyone," so he'll go through ups and downs. It'll be a question of the other kind of timing as to when they come for him.

Roger is geriatric when he wins and loses. He is geriatric period. Someone his age "shouldn't" be as great as he is but we are talking someone with unparalleled tennis talent. His movement hasn't been great for a long time, especially moving to his forehand. I don't think his movement was that terrible this week aside from his return where his footwork was often sloppy. Clearly he wasn't timing the ball well the last couple days.

 

[lob]

Cmon. 36-37 is terminal decline for this era, in the earlier eras it was about 30-31. Your expectations are unrealistic. Fed is done. Just accept it.

Very likely. BUT. IF he gets very lucky he has an outside chance of just one more slam.

 

[Jelenafan]

At times Federer looked like he was pushing thirty-eight out there...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Anyway, congrats to Novak. Even though he was shaky in the early matches, he came determined for the big match. Same thing he did at Wimby also.

The ability to bring your great play at a great moment is the mark of champions. Novak proved he is one.

 

[monfed]

Faker winning is a blessing in a disguise if he can wrestle away YE#1 from dull and Fed somehow wins one of USO/WTF.

The top priority is mowgli needs to be kept away from titles and records as far away as possible.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Faker winning is a blessing in a disguise if he can wrestle away YE#1 from dull and Fed somehow wins one of USO/WTF.

The top priority is mowgli needs to be kept away from titles and records as far away as possible.

Faker will have to win both of those to have a chance at YE #1

 

[Moxie]

Anyway, congrats to Novak. Even though he was shaky in the early matches, he came determined for the big match. Same thing he did at Wimby also.

The ability to bring your great play at a great moment is the mark of champions. Novak proved he is one.

I think he'd proved that before. He stepped up to the plate today, but the other great champion on offer was AWOL.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Novak won 14 of 18 points on second serve, leading to 78% success conversion rate. Incidentally, he only converted his first serve only 71% of time.

Roger won on first serve 67% of the time and only 47% on second serve (15 out of 32).

This match got decided basically by the huge disparity in second serve conversion rate.