Cincinnati Master 1000

[DarthFed]

I wouldn't include RBA, either. And I think Mannarino is under-appreciated. He's a middle-weight but has chops.

You wouldn't include RBA as a pusher? Come on, who would you include if not him?

 

[The Strokes]

I wouldn't include RBA, either. And I think Mannarino is under-appreciated. He's a middle-weight but has chops.

Agree re Mannarino. He is super crafty and makes the absolute most out of what he has.
Kind of cool watching him outfox a bigger hitter.

 

[The Strokes]

That kind of mentality might cost him match against Kygrios or Isner in the Quarterfinals (assuming he beats Albert Vinolas)...

I actually thought hew was plenty aggressive, and you play each opponent differently.

 

[The Strokes]

Indeed. I'm sure you're bummed that Muller is out. Kyrgios is still in on Rafa's side. But this is an opportunity that Rafa shouldn't miss, for sure.

Mueller was no threat on HC.

 

[The Strokes]

Rafa dismisses Gasquet again. I would like to have seen him more aggressive, but he plays Richard the way he always does, so a fair choice, I guess.

Hmmm, I thought Rafa played very aggressively, to me that explained why he was hitting out a bit, he was really going for it, no short balls thank god. His BH was lethal.
You can't argue with a summary execution, it happened quite fast and efficiently. For some reason Gas is a perfect matchup for Rafa.
Last match I saw Rafa play was Shap. This was about 20 times better.

 

[Moxie]

Mueller was no threat on HC.

Easy to say in retrospect, but I think Mueller's aggressive style could have translated to HC. And the confidence of a recent big win over Rafa could surely have made him a threat.

 

[Moxie]

You wouldn't include RBA as a pusher? Come on, who would you include if not him?

You erroneously put all Spaniards in one pile. There are loads of them in the top 100, and they don't all play the game the same way.

 

[Moxie]

Hmmm, I thought Rafa played very aggressively, to me that explained why he was hitting out a bit, he was really going for it, no short balls thank god. His BH was lethal.
You can't argue with a summary execution, it happened quite fast and efficiently. For some reason Gas is a perfect matchup for Rafa.
Last match I saw Rafa play was Shap. This was about 20 times better.

Agreed better, but I think he has to play a lot more aggressive, i.e., closer to/inside the baseline, and serve not just better, but more aggressively. He can have a high serve pct., and yet not make the impact that he needs to to win the USO. Let's see how he does in Cincy to adjust his game. This is his perfect chance to walk into the USO with a lot of confidence.

 

[Moxie]

That kind of mentality might cost him match against Kygrios or Isner in the Quarterfinals (assuming he beats Albert Vinolas)...

I don't worry about ARV or Isner. But passivity will cost him against a healthy Kyrgios. And it won't get him to the trophy at Flushing Meadows. It's time to start playing towards what the future has in store for him.

 

[kskate2]

Order of Play for Third Round Thursday, August 17, 2017

 

[DarthFed]

You erroneously put all Spaniards in one pile. There are loads of them in the top 100, and they don't all play the game the same way.

Total cop out here and you know it. RBA, Ferrer, and many other Spaniards do play a similar way and they are certainly pushers for the most part. Obviously not all the Spaniards play the same; Lopez, Verdasco, Almagro, etc.

 

[isabelle]

good job from Delpo, happy to see him in a decent form

 

[The Strokes]

I don't worry about ARV or Isner. But passivity will cost him against a healthy Kyrgios. And it won't get him to the trophy at Flushing Meadows. It's time to start playing towards what the future has in store for him.

He wasn't passive. At all. He was just as aggressive as he needed to be.
Taking control against a big hitter/server is harder than Gas . He uses what he needs. Absurd to criticize a super easy win. The main thing was the pressure his groundies put on Gas and put a huge amount of pressure. I worry about Rafa when hitting short balls, and i don't think I know more than he does about how to play.
I don't worry about ISner or ARv either, Kygios? Not sure, saw him against Dolgop--Dolgop was so subpat it was hard to tell what NK really had, besides a huge serve.

 

[The Strokes]

Total cop out here and you know it. RBA, Ferrer, and many other Spaniards do play a similar way and they are certainly pushers for the most part. Obviously not all the Spaniards play the same; Lopez, Verdasco, Almagro, etc.

These aren't pushers. Pushers don't swing through the stroke--they push. Tomic for sure. Not everyone plays a power game, or has the wherewithal to do so.
Ferrer hit the ball quite hard for his size. These players are backboards, they get everything back, same with Mann, Simon and Murray (that's why I cited him before) they let the other guy go for it. There are lots on the women's side who are the same way. It's not something they should be insulted for.

 

[The Strokes]

Agreed better, but I think he has to play a lot more aggressive, i.e., closer to/inside the baseline, and serve not just better, but more aggressively. He can have a high serve pct., and yet not make the impact that he needs to to win the USO. Let's see how he does in Cincy to adjust his game. This is his perfect chance to walk into the USO with a lot of confidence.

I think he can win the USO. Still don't agree with criticizing a definitive win. Each opponet calls for something different.
In general, I'm not the kind of fan who think I know better than Rafa what he should be doing.
He had a lousy day against Shap but I don't draw longterm conclusions from it, unless I saw the same things here. Is that what you mean by adjust his game? Or adjust to HC? He put Coric away very easily before Shap. Fist time he played Shap, and you saw how big Shap's game can be, and he's a lefty too which sometimes torubles Rafa.
The worst with Rafa are the short balls, overtopping. If you really know his game you know that's not a choice, that shows a lack of confidence, and it's always spells a loss, unless his opponent chokes.
Rafa doesn't bother with aces when he doesn't need them. Somedays he can pull a few out of a hat. He's near the top of the server stats on the atp leaderboard without being technically a big server like Fed or Raonic or Kyrgios and that speak volumes about the quality of his serving. This year. Vastly improved.

 

[DarthFed]

These aren't pushers. Pushers don't swing through the stroke--they push. Tomic for sure. Not everyone plays a power game, or has the wherewithal to do so.
Ferrer hit the ball quite hard for his size. These players are backboards, they get everything back, same with Mann, Simon and Murray (that's why I cited him before) they let the other guy go for it. There are lots on the women's side who are the same way. It's not something they should be insulted for.

Pushers are players who just put the ball in play and wait for their opponents to miss. They rely on defense, consistency, and stamina to win. It doesn't have to do with hitting through the ball, they just don't put much on it and leave a lot of margin for error.

 

[Front242]

Monfils is a puke making pusher who occasionally let's rip with a vicious forehand down the line or big serve. Mostly though, his game is puke and the epitome of pusher tennis.

 

[Moxie]

Juan Martin was suffering from sun stroke or something at the end of his match with Dimitrov. Shame, because it looked like it could go 3.

 

[Moxie]

Sugita is interesting, taking out Khatchanov. Also, Gilles Muller fell to Ramos-Viñolas, surely to the disappointment of @GameSetAndMath. Rafa had better buckle up his best game now.

 

[El Dude]

I haven't been following this tournament much, but I see the ATP has rolled out the red carpet for Rafa once again... I mean, how much easier can they make his path to a big title? No Roger, Novak, or Andy; no Stan or Cilic; Zverev goes out early; even Muller folds before meeting him.

Go Grigor!