Carlito's Way - Carlos Alcaraz Talk

[Moxie]

This return and volley thing he does is very Roger-like, in his later SABR days, but Carlos being younger, he’s able to make it work. He has Rogers touch and brilliance, some of Novaks swagger sprinkled in when he raises his arm to encourage the crowd to join him in enjoying these great shots. A huge difference with Rafa, that one, but also I think the difference there is that Rafa doesn’t react to the crowd - the crowd react to Rafa. He’s an internalised presence, playing with such ferocity, and his interiority escapes through fist pumps and roars and the crowd love it. Rafa rarely acknowledges the crowd. Carlos knows they’re there and loves to entertain them.

He’s a very interesting character. He plays with a big smile at times. When I think of Rafa and all his complexes, and then think of young Chas, I’m glad he didn’t come up at the same time as Rafa. I just wonder will he have that great internal engine Rafa has that’s kept him going…

To be fair, you put me onto that Tennis Channel Rafa Top Ten wins...didn't you watch the Rafa v. Roddick Davis Cup one? He totally played the crowd. I think he got a bit more "seemly" when he became a top player. But he's totally the same as teenage Rafa. But, sure, more Novak when he puts the finger to the ear: "Let me hear it!"

And, he seems to have room for improvement.

 

[Jelenafan]

He robs his opponents of time, its hurryup tennis. Think of no huddle football where the defense can’t catch a breath.

One of the commentators mentioned during a rally with Tsitsipas in the Finals that “ Musetti would have given Tsitsipas the time” That was exactly right, Musetti, like other players plays the ball, waits for it whereas Alcaraz uses that split second to attack at opportune moments.

 

[Kieran]

To be fair, you put me onto that Tennis Channel Rafa Top Ten wins...didn't you watch the Rafa v. Roddick Davis Cup one? He totally played the crowd. I think he got a bit more "seemly" when he became a top player. But he's totally the same as teenage Rafa. But, sure, more Novak when he puts the finger to the ear: "Let me hear it!"

And, he seems to have room for improvement.

I didn’t watch that one, I read it. To be fair, he was 18 at the time and it was Davis Cup. We’d never associate the kind of stuff Carlos does in enjoying himself with the crowd, with Rafa. They’re temperamentally didn’t in that regard. I enjoy this aspect of Carlos, and yeah, he’s only 19 but I think this is something that will stay with him. He’s differently confident to Rafa. I can’t imagine Carlos having all of Rafa’s complexes as he gets older.

 

[Moxie]

I didn’t watch that one, I read it. To be fair, he was 18 at the time and it was Davis Cup. We’d never associate the kind of stuff Carlos does in enjoying himself with the crowd, with Rafa. They’re temperamentally didn’t in that regard. I enjoy this aspect of Carlos, and yeah, he’s only 19 but I think this is something that will stay with him. He’s differently confident to Rafa. I can’t imagine Carlos having all of Rafa’s complexes as he gets older.

I do think Rafa was much more exuberant on court when he was younger, though not one to play to the crowd like Carlos, (though in that Davis Cup match he did, but that is different.) I remember him toning it down after a while of being at the top, which I interpreted as it being a bit unseemly for a #1-#2 players, after a while.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Carlito is the best thing that has happened to tennis since Rafa. We almost saw Djokovic & Murray ruining tennis with their mechanical pushing boring style of play but I'm glad that someone exciting like Rafa has arrived. I can't wait to watch more Carlito matches.

 

[tented]

 

[don_fabio]

I suppose Alcaraz won't make a same mistake as last year and skip Rome.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I suppose Alcaraz won't make a same mistake as last year and skip Rome.

I dont think so he will have time off from Madrid seeing he is seeded, Rome will have the same format as Madrid, also he has a chance of claiming the No 1 ranking if he can win

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Most wins in first tour matches
Possibly one of the most impressive stats for Alcaraz

Alcaraz 117
McEnroe 113
Nadal 112
Wilander 111
Agassi 110

 

[don_fabio]

The way things are going it's not unrealistic to think that Alcaraz could sweep a clay season this year. He already won Barcelona, he is in the final of Madrid. Rome and RG remain on the list. Nobody is matching his level right now and the kid has clear goal to win everywhere he plays. Skipping AO only made him hungrier for success and he worked hard to be where he is now. Barring no injuries he is the man to beat until the end of a clay season.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

The way things are going it's not unrealistic to think that Alcaraz could sweep a clay season this year. He already won Barcelona, he is in the final of Madrid. Rome and RG remain on the list. Nobody is matching his level right now and the kid has clear goal to win everywhere he plays. Skipping AO only made him hungrier for success and he worked hard to be where he is now. Barring no injuries he is the man to beat until the end of a clay season.

The thing I worry about Alcaraz is injuries, which has kept him out of the AO this year, also some minor niggling injuries, though he has shown so far during the clay season, he is handling the different conditions well, clay being soo hard on the body.He has soo many options in his game, so far his young body of just 20 has held up well, during the clay season.

 

[El Dude]

This kid is so good, and it is exciting to have a young guy who we can say with a good degree of certainty, will go down in history as an all-time great. Lost and Next Gens either weren't good enough or disappointed to varying degrees; maybe Del Potro could have been one, but his career was derailed by injuries. I think Rune has that potential, but there's still a lot of uncertainty - and a lot depends upon how he matures mentally over the next couple years. I think Sinner could be really good, but probably not ATG-good (I see his upper potential more as a "near great," ala 2-4 Slams). So we're likely talking about a 16-year gap between Novak's birth year (1987) and Alcaraz's (2003). Or to put 6+ Slam winners by birth year, going back to Rosewall:

1934 (Rosewall)
1936 (Emerson)
1938 (Laver)
1944 (Newcombe)
1952 (Connors)
1956 (Borg)
1959 (McEnroe)
1960 (Lendl)
1964 (Wilander)
1966 (Edberg)
1967 (Becker)
1970 (Agassi)
1971 (Sampras)
1981 (Federer)
1986 (Nadal)
1987 (Djokovic)

So those are gaps of, from shortest to longest: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10 years. 16 years would be, by far, the longest. Even if Sinner (2001) pulls it off, it will be 14 years.

With Carlos, the only thing blocking him from becoming a true ATG is health. He's basically there already. Now it is just a matter how good he becomes. He could not improve at all and still win 6+ Slams quite easily. Or he could keep on improving and challenge for 10+.

If he wins tomorrow, that's 5 big titles that started before his 20th birthday. To compare (with #GS in parentheses):

Rafa: 8 (2)
Becker: 6 (2)
Borg: 6 (2)
Wilander: 5 (2)
Alcaraz: 4+ (1)
McEnroe: 4
Chang: 2 (1)
Sampras: 2 (1)
Edberg: 2 (1)
A Medvedev: 2
Mancini: 2
Rune: 1
Novak: 1
Agassi: 1

Either way, he's in the inner circle of "teen greats."

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This kid is so good, and it is exciting to have a young guy who we can say with a good degree of certainty, will go down in history as an all-time great. Lost and Next Gens either weren't good enough or disappointed to varying degrees; maybe Del Potro could have been one, but his career was derailed by injuries. I think Rune has that potential, but there's still a lot of uncertainty - and a lot depends upon how he matures mentally over the next couple years. I think Sinner could be really good, but probably not ATG-good (I see his upper potential more as a "near great," ala 2-4 Slams). So we're likely talking about a 16-year gap between Novak's birth year (1987) and Alcaraz's (2003). Or to put 6+ Slam winners by birth year, going back to Rosewall:

1934 (Rosewall)
1936 (Emerson)
1938 (Laver)
1944 (Newcombe)
1952 (Connors)
1956 (Borg)
1959 (McEnroe)
1960 (Lendl)
1964 (Wilander)
1966 (Edberg)
1967 (Becker)
1970 (Agassi)
1971 (Sampras)
1981 (Federer)
1986 (Nadal)
1987 (Djokovic)

So those are gaps of, from shortest to longest: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10 years. 16 years would be, by far, the longest. Even if Sinner (2001) pulls it off, it will be 14 years.

With Carlos, the only thing blocking him from becoming a true ATG is health. He's basically there already. Now it is just a matter how good he becomes. He could not improve at all and still win 6+ Slams quite easily. Or he could keep on improving and challenge for 10+.

If he wins tomorrow, that's 5 big titles that started before his 20th birthday. To compare (with #GS in parentheses):

Rafa: 8 (2)
Becker: 6 (2)
Borg: 6 (2)
Wilander: 5 (2)
Alcaraz: 4+ (1)
McEnroe: 4
Chang: 2 (1)
Sampras: 2 (1)
Edberg: 2 (1)
A Medvedev: 2
Mancini: 2
Rune: 1
Novak: 1
Agassi: 1

Either way, he's in the inner circle of "teen greats."

Rune has the potential, though he has to address his focus and mental game, which was soo apparent in his match against Foki in Madrid.
He appeared to erase a mark on the clay, which Foki appealed to to Carlos Bernades, Bernades had to give Rune a mini lecture?, he of course got the fans off side in the match, then in one of the change overs tweeted on his mobile how the Spanish fans were disgusting? like who does that in the middle of a match, he had the weapons to beat Foki, but his loss of focus cost him at times in the match, he got booed off court, which I am against, though he didnt have to put his hand up to his ear and indicate the fans were nut cases? his fans cannot give the excuse he is a teenager, anymore, he needs to grow up ASAP. Lets see how he performs in Rome. At this stage Alcaraz has more options and gears in his game and his focus and mental ability is superior.
BTW Nethmeth put the incident of the foot erasing mark on the Villian page

 

[Moxie]

This kid is so good, and it is exciting to have a young guy who we can say with a good degree of certainty, will go down in history as an all-time great. Lost and Next Gens either weren't good enough or disappointed to varying degrees; maybe Del Potro could have been one, but his career was derailed by injuries. I think Rune has that potential, but there's still a lot of uncertainty - and a lot depends upon how he matures mentally over the next couple years. I think Sinner could be really good, but probably not ATG-good (I see his upper potential more as a "near great," ala 2-4 Slams). So we're likely talking about a 16-year gap between Novak's birth year (1987) and Alcaraz's (2003). Or to put 6+ Slam winners by birth year, going back to Rosewall:

1934 (Rosewall)
1936 (Emerson)
1938 (Laver)
1944 (Newcombe)
1952 (Connors)
1956 (Borg)
1959 (McEnroe)
1960 (Lendl)
1964 (Wilander)
1966 (Edberg)
1967 (Becker)
1970 (Agassi)
1971 (Sampras)
1981 (Federer)
1986 (Nadal)
1987 (Djokovic)

So those are gaps of, from shortest to longest: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10 years. 16 years would be, by far, the longest. Even if Sinner (2001) pulls it off, it will be 14 years.

With Carlos, the only thing blocking him from becoming a true ATG is health. He's basically there already. Now it is just a matter how good he becomes. He could not improve at all and still win 6+ Slams quite easily. Or he could keep on improving and challenge for 10+.

If he wins tomorrow, that's 5 big titles that started before his 20th birthday. To compare (with #GS in parentheses):

Rafa: 8 (2)
Becker: 6 (2)
Borg: 6 (2)
Wilander: 5 (2)
Alcaraz: 4+ (1)
McEnroe: 4
Chang: 2 (1)
Sampras: 2 (1)
Edberg: 2 (1)
A Medvedev: 2
Mancini: 2
Rune: 1
Novak: 1
Agassi: 1

Either way, he's in the inner circle of "teen greats."

Good research, Dude, and well-articulated and laid out. By way of explanation, I think we all know what accounts for that (potential/probable) 16-year gap: The big 3 sucked up nearly all of the Majors trophies. Even had Del Potro stayed healthy and gotten to 10+, that still would have left Fedalovic in the 10+, I feel safe in saying.

As to Alcaraz improving, Petkovic showed on TC where he has room to improve on his serve. (Position of the elbow in his trophy position, I believe was her note.) As to health, which @MargaretMcAleer also mentions above, of course that is an unknown. No one could have predicted what happened to Del Potro, and so young. But I do think he has an excellent team behind him, and he's very lucky in JC Ferrero. Another thing no one would have predicted is that Nadal would stay in so long, so even with some injuries, a great player can stay in and win an awful lot.

 

[El Dude]

Good research, Dude, and well-articulated and laid out. By way of explanation, I think we all know what accounts for that (potential/probable) 16-year gap: The big 3 sucked up nearly all of the Majors trophies. Even had Del Potro stayed healthy and gotten to 10+, that still would have left Fedalovic in the 10+, I feel safe in saying.

As to Alcaraz improving, Petkovic showed on TC where he has room to improve on his serve. (Position of the elbow in his trophy position, I believe was her note.) As to health, which @MargaretMcAleer also mentions above, of course that is an unknown. No one could have predicted what happened to Del Potro, and so young. But I do think he has an excellent team behind him, and he's very lucky in JC Ferrero. Another thing no one would have predicted is that Nadal would stay in so long, so even with some injuries, a great player can stay in and win an awful lot.

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about his health - certainly not that he'll follow a Del Potro path. Totally differently body type, and I think Alcaraz's type is just less prone to (serious) injury.

I hear you about the 16-year gap, though I think it is largely about a weakness in talent between Novak/Andy (and Del Potro) and then it started rising with folks like Medvedev. But you know I've often said--and you've agreed--that Andy Murray tends to get a bit under-appreciated. I really see him as being on the level of the Beckers and Edbergs, and think he might have had a similar career (more Slams) in a different era, without the Big Three always there.

So I see the impact of the Big Three not only on Andy, but also on guys like Berdych, Tsonga and Ferrer, even Nishikori and Raonic, who might have won a Slam or two each in a different era. Certainly less talented players did, and even sometimes in good eras. But the big three were so dominant across the three surfaces,there were very few scraps left over for anyone else. It took some amazing tennis from Stanimal, and that improbable run from Cilic in 2014 playing amazing tennis for one tournament.

 

[don_fabio]

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about his health - certainly not that he'll follow a Del Potro path. Totally differently body type, and I think Alcaraz's type is just less prone to (serious) injury.

I have to tell you for a young man as he is he already picked up quite a few injuries. I mean a guy is running like a madman all over the court, it's got to leave some consequences. Not to mention how hard he is hitting.

We still have to see him play a full season injury free. It's like he has to be tamed a bit by his team, because if he goes too hard he'll get injured.

I wouldn't put him in the Del Potro category either, but could definitely see him skipping a few slams like AO this year.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

It took some amazing tennis from Stanimal, and that improbable run from Cilic in 2014 playing amazing tennis for one tournament.

Cilic's career is way underrated. Contrary to popular belief, Cilic's run at the 2014 US Open wasn't a fluke, as evidenced by his runs at 2017 Wimbledon and 2018 AO. If not for Federer's resurgence, Cilic would have 3 slams and his legacy would be the same as Stan, and your sentence would have probably been "It took some amazing tennis from Stanimal and Cilic."

Cilic's run at the FO last year proves that he is a well-rounded player. You could even argue that 2022 was his most consistent year, as he made the second weekend in each of the slams he played.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Congratulations!
Carlos Alcaraz has won the Laureus award for "Breakthrough Athlete of the Year 2023" ( not surprising at all)
The 20 year old announced himself in stunning fashion in 2022, winning his first GS at the USO and becoming the youngest world No 1 in APT rankings history.

 

[Kieran]

Congratulations!
Carlos Alcaraz has won the Laureus award for "Breakthrough Athlete of the Year 2023" ( not surprising at all)
The 20 year old announced himself in stunning fashion in 2022, winning his first GS at the USO and becoming the youngest world No 1 in APT rankings history.

Do Laureus ever give awards to athletes who aren’t tennis players? Every year a tennis player gets their award?!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Do Laureus ever give awards to athletes who aren’t tennis players? Every year a tennis player gets their award?!

I guess it depends on their other athletes nominees and their results, Messi won the Sportsman of the Year Award, ( Rafa was also nominated as well this year in that category)