Carlito's Way - Carlos Alcaraz Talk

[Nadalfan2013]

It's a big shame that Alcaraz couldn't play the AO because he would have demolished Pushovic. Congrats on regaining the #1 ranking Carlos!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Paul Annacone, his thoughts on Carlos Alcaraz, commentating for TC,
Neither Federer nor Nadal ( nor Djokovic) was No 1 as a teenager,

" The most complete 19 year old men's player in memory with consistency and decision making not typically seen in young players.The interesting thing for me is watching someone who is this athletically talented with his running, jumping, explosiveness and flexibility, but also has the hand-eye coordination to be able to take the ball on the rise, come forward and volley, Annacone said. He also can back up and change pace.He can do everything".

While I agree with Annacone's thoughts on Alcaraz and I am a huge fan,
Rafa won 11 titles at 18/19 including RG but could not reach the No 1, a 24 year old player named Roger Federer was there, Novak a year younger did not start winning until 2006. At present Carlos has to compete against Novak ( when he comes back to the tour) a 35 year old and Rafa as a 36 year old, he currently dosent face a lot of competition, I am not down grading his titles at all, just pointing out a few facts, I am certain Alcaraz will have a wonderful career, I love watching him play.

 

[Jelenafan]

Carlos is also sort of resetting what is the accepted minimum height for a champ these days, he’s on a good day 6 foot ( Casper Ruud is also listed at 6’ but in pics when U see them together he appears to me clearly taller)

You have to go back to Lleyton Hewitt (5-10) and Agassi (5-11) for shorter champs.

Most of the top 15, Nadal, Djokovic, Sinner, Rune, Zverev , Tsitsipas, Rublev, Hurcatz, Medvedev, Norrie, Tiafoe, Fritz, etc fall in the “ideal” 6’1- 6’-5” range with Medevev being the taller outlier.

It helps Carlos for his relative shorter stature his body type, well not quite the build of Nadal at the same age, it is bulkier/muscular/compact and not as lanky as most 19-20 year olds who have to fill into their bodies, such as Felix, Sinner, etc. Even Holger Rune slightly taller and similar age you feel needs a bit more muscle, OTOH Medvedev will always be lanky ; )

Carlos’ technique saves him because he generates exceptional good power, even his serve (a relative liability) is developing more pop. Again like the short Ruud.

So like so many players the big question is will the body hold up.

 

[El Dude]

With Carlos's 4th big title as a teenager, he's in rare company (he was already):

Only Rafa, Borg, Becker, and Wilander have more.

Of course the "cautionary tales" here are Andrei Medvedev and Alberto Mancini, neither of whom did much after. Medvedev had a pretty good career but for whatever reason, didn't develop beyond what he was as a 19-year old. Of his 11 titles and 4 Masters, 7 and 2 of them were as a teen; he won two more Masters after turning 20, one at 20 and the other at 22.

Fun fact about Mancini: he's the only player to win a big title as a teenager (and 3 titles overall) and not win a single title after turning 20.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

With Carlos's 4th big title as a teenager, he's in rare company (he was already):

View attachment 7883
Only Rafa, Borg, Becker, and Wilander have more.

Of course the "cautionary tales" here are Andrei Medvedev and Alberto Mancini, neither of whom did much after. Medvedev had a pretty good career but for whatever reason, didn't develop beyond what he was as a 19-year old. Of his 11 titles and 4 Masters, 7 and 2 of them were as a teen; he won two more Masters after turning 20, one at 20 and the other at 22.

Fun fact about Mancini: he's the only player to win a big title as a teenager (and 3 titles overall) and not win a single title after turning 20.

I never heard of Mancini, I will have to look him up, not winning a single title after 20? has me curious

 

[Jelenafan]

With Carlos's 4th big title as a teenager, he's in rare company (he was already):

View attachment 7883
Only Rafa, Borg, Becker, and Wilander have more.

Of course the "cautionary tales" here are Andrei Medvedev and Alberto Mancini, neither of whom did much after. Medvedev had a pretty good career but for whatever reason, didn't develop beyond what he was as a 19-year old. Of his 11 titles and 4 Masters, 7 and 2 of them were as a teen; he won two more Masters after turning 20, one at 20 and the other at 22.

Fun fact about Mancini: he's the only player to win a big title as a teenager (and 3 titles overall) and not win a single title after turning 20.

Manicini! I haven't heard that name in ages! My fuzzy memory was that he was sort of a male Gabriela Sabatini, with a beautiful one handed topspin BH.

 

[tented]

With Carlos's 4th big title as a teenager, he's in rare company (he was already):

View attachment 7883
Only Rafa, Borg, Becker, and Wilander have more.

Of course the "cautionary tales" here are Andrei Medvedev and Alberto Mancini, neither of whom did much after. Medvedev had a pretty good career but for whatever reason, didn't develop beyond what he was as a 19-year old. Of his 11 titles and 4 Masters, 7 and 2 of them were as a teen; he won two more Masters after turning 20, one at 20 and the other at 22.

Fun fact about Mancini: he's the only player to win a big title as a teenager (and 3 titles overall) and not win a single title after turning 20.

Given that Alcaraz is turning 20 in about 6 weeks, he doesn’t have a lot of time to win more titles. He could defend Miami, then try for MC and Barcelona, but that’s a lot.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I never heard of Mancini, I will have to look him up, not winning a single title after 20? has me curious

He teamed up with Fognini in 2020 as his coach, interesting.

 

[Moxie]

This is the article I mention to @Jelenafan. Carlos feeling relaxed:

Alcaraz rolls to Indian Wells win, reclaims No. 1

Carlos Alcaraz closed out Daniil Medvedev in 70 minutes on Sunday to win the BNP Paribas Open title and regain the world No. 1 ranking.

www.espn.com

 

[Moxie]

While I agree with Annacone's thoughts on Alcaraz and I am a huge fan,
Rafa won 11 titles at 18/19 including RG but could not reach the No 1, a 24 year old player named Roger Federer was there, Novak a year younger did not start winning until 2006. At present Carlos has to compete against Novak ( when he comes back to the tour) a 35 year old and Rafa as a 36 year old, he currently dosent face a lot of competition, I am not down grading his titles at all, just pointing out a few facts, I am certain Alcaraz will have a wonderful career, I love watching him play.

I was thinking a bit the same. Annacone makes the point that neither Rafa, nor Roger, nor Novak hit #1 as a teenager, but surely in any other era, Rafa would have, at least. There was a time when you got a Major, and you got the #1 as a sort of door-prize. But neither Roger nor Novak were teenagers when they won a Major. I'm sure no player has ever had to win 5 Majors before reaching #1, as Rafa did. He had an ATG-in-the-making in front of him by 5 years. If some will complain about circumstances that helped Charlie get to #1 so fast, they should also realize circumstances that kept Rafa from #1 for so long. A perfect example of why weeks at #1 isn't much a measure of greatness as some might have it.

 

[roberto]

I was thinking a bit the same. Annacone makes the point that neither Rafa, nor Roger, nor Novak hit #1 as a teenager, but surely in any other era, Rafa would have, at least. There was a time when you got a Major, and you got the #1 as a sort of door-prize. But neither Roger nor Novak were teenagers when they won a Major. I'm sure no player has ever had to win 5 Majors before reaching #1, as Rafa did. He had an ATG-in-the-making in front of him by 5 years. If some will complain about circumstances that helped Charlie get to #1 so fast, they should also realize circumstances that kept Rafa from #1 for so long. A perfect example of why weeks at #1 isn't much a measure of greatness as some might have it.

LOLOL wow that closing line was a classic--even for you. Weeks at #1 shows consistency---what may have kept Rafa from more weeks was his frequent injury time offs.......

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I was thinking a bit the same. Annacone makes the point that neither Rafa, nor Roger, nor Novak hit #1 as a teenager, but surely in any other era, Rafa would have, at least. There was a time when you got a Major, and you got the #1 as a sort of door-prize. But neither Roger nor Novak were teenagers when they won a Major. I'm sure no player has ever had to win 5 Majors before reaching #1, as Rafa did. He had an ATG-in-the-making in front of him by 5 years. If some will complain about circumstances that helped Charlie get to #1 so fast, they should also realize circumstances that kept Rafa from #1 for so long. A perfect example of why weeks at #1 isn't much a measure of greatness as some might have it.

I know we should not compare, though when I was reading Annacones thoughts the first thing that popped into my mind was Rafa at age 18/19 with 11 titles and a GS under his belt,of course in any other era Rafa would have attained the No1 ranking

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Ranking: Alcaraz #1, Djokovic #2 - Winner: Alcaraz

Head to head: Alcaraz 1, Djokovic 0 - Winner: Alcaraz

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Manicini! I haven't heard that name in ages! My fuzzy memory was that he was sort of a male Gabriela Sabatini, with a beautiful one handed topspin BH.

Gabriela Sabatini was really good from 1990-1992, but of course, this was the peak of the Graf-Seles rivalry. Had Sabatini's peak been any other time, she probably wins like 7 slams. I'd take peak Sabatini over current Iga any day.

 

[Kieran]

One thing I love about Carlos is that he randomly charges the net of the most inappropriate shot and darts about the net cutting off the opponents shot. He’s got quick reflexes, athleticism, great touch. Just watched this short video about his ‘return and volley’ habit. He’s going to give opponents nightmares, hopefully for years…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

One thing I love about Carlos is that he randomly charges the net of the most inappropriate shot and darts about the net cutting off the opponents shot. He’s got quick reflexes, athleticism, great touch. Just watched this short video about his ‘return and volley’ habit. He’s going to give opponents nightmares, hopefully for years…

He is a very intuitive volley player for someone soo young, on all surfaces....

 

[Moxie]

One thing I love about Carlos is that he randomly charges the net of the most inappropriate shot and darts about the net cutting off the opponents shot. He’s got quick reflexes, athleticism, great touch. Just watched this short video about his ‘return and volley’ habit. He’s going to give opponents nightmares, hopefully for years…

I know he gets compared a lot to Rafa, and it's not wholly accurate, but that exuberance of youth! That is reminiscent. Maybe he and JC Ferrero have decided to cut to the chance, with his natural inclination to aggression, and avoid the overuse injuries? Supposedly, Juan Carlos and team were trying to pull him back from so much aggression, early on, but decided to let him run with his head. Which is when he won the US Open. The kid has great instincts.

 

[Kieran]

I know he gets compared a lot to Rafa, and it's not wholly accurate, but that exuberance of youth! That is reminiscent. Maybe he and JC Ferrero have decided to cut to the chance, with his natural inclination to aggression, and avoid the overuse injuries? Supposedly, Juan Carlos and team were trying to pull him back from so much aggression, early on, but decided to let him run with his head. Which is when he won the US Open. The kid has great instincts.

I don’t see any resemblance at all to Rafa, I think it’s just that they’re both Spaniards, but I see more of Novak and Roger in him. Novaks elastic stretching across the baseline, and Rogers natural brilliance in creating ridiculously imaginative shots. With Rafa, he does share a similar intensity, but I always felt the Baby Rafa tag was lazy. He’s remarkable really, young Carlos. We haven’t seen anything like him since Rafa, but with him being even more complete a player, and frankly, much more confident, I hope he has a long career…

 

[Moxie]

I don’t see any resemblance at all to Rafa, I think it’s just that they’re both Spaniards, but I see more of Novak and Roger in him. Novaks elastic stretching across the baseline, and Rogers natural brilliance in creating ridiculously imaginative shots. With Rafa, he does share a similar intensity, but I always felt the Baby Rafa tag was lazy. He’s remarkable really, young Carlos. We haven’t seen anything like him since Rafa, but with him being even more complete a player, and frankly, much more confident, I hope he has a long career…

I totally agree it's a lazy tag. Just that they're Spaniards, and Charlie is the first great teenager since Rafa. Obviously the first to win a Major since. And a certain electricity he generates, so young, but that's window-dressing. The poster on his wall was Roger. And he shares commonalities with all 3, really. He's kind of Big 3 - 2.0. Honestly, if you're young Charlie, the future is so bright, you gotta wear shades.

 

[Kieran]

I totally agree it's a lazy tag. Just that they're Spaniards, and Charlie is the first great teenager since Rafa. Obviously the first to win a Major since. And a certain electricity he generates, so young, but that's window-dressing. The poster on his wall was Roger. And he shares commonalities with all 3, really. He's kind of Big 3 - 2.0. Honestly, if you're young Charlie, the future is so bright, you gotta wear shades.

This return and volley thing he does is very Roger-like, in his later SABR days, but Carlos being younger, he’s able to make it work. He has Rogers touch and brilliance, some of Novaks swagger sprinkled in when he raises his arm to encourage the crowd to join him in enjoying these great shots. A huge difference with Rafa, that one, but also I think the difference there is that Rafa doesn’t react to the crowd - the crowd react to Rafa. He’s an internalised presence, playing with such ferocity, and his interiority escapes through fist pumps and roars and the crowd love it. Rafa rarely acknowledges the crowd. Carlos knows they’re there and loves to entertain them.

He’s a very interesting character. He plays with a big smile at times. When I think of Rafa and all his complexes, and then think of young Chas, I’m glad he didn’t come up at the same time as Rafa. I just wonder will he have that great internal engine Rafa has that’s kept him going…