Carlito's Way - Carlos Alcaraz Talk

[rafanoy1992]

If/when he hits his stride, I don’t see Sinner at the same level as Alcaraz. Time will tell.

I do think that Alcaraz will have a higher level than Sinner in the future, but I also think that Sinner’s consistency and efficiency will keep himself in the mix.

 

[Moxie]

I know this has been batted about before, but I don't think that sells. He came up playing against Sampras in the twilight of his career, Agassi when he had a resurgence at the end of his career, Andy Roddick when he was an upcoming star, number one in the world with a huge serve, to say nothing of the great Australian, Lleyton Hewitt, as well as Marat Safin. These were top players who would have won more majors were it not for the Swiss Maestro. He can't help it that he was just supremely better both mentally and shotmaking-wise then any of his "contemporaries". For years he was better than the young Spaniard and it was Roger, even in the words of the great Spaniard, who pushed him to become the player he ultimately became. If we denigrate Roger as having no contemporaries, then we should denigrate Nadal (which I refuse to do), because he dominated the same people in major championships and masters events in 2004-2007. He was winning tournaments in 2004, only a year and 1/2 or two years after Roger started winning events more regularly. At the end, it is simply a matter of Roger and Rafa being the extra special players that they were. They were just two of the best of all time and nobody was going to be able to be called a contemporary that could challenge them except for themselves--and this guy from Serbia who was just a few years behind them.

I didn't mean to imply the old "weak era" argument against Federer. But I know it's a sore spot. I really was just talking about Alcaraz being so much at the tail end of the Big 3, but having interesting contemporaries. I know with Roger it's a chicken/egg thing. Was the competition not up to it, or was he just miles ahead of them? Personally, I think both things were true. As you point out, some of the greats Roger faced were old, even if resurgent, in the case of Agassi. But he was too long in the tooth to change his game for Roger. Roddick was too one-dimensional to ever compete with Roger. And don't remind me of the magnificent, mercurial Marat Safin.

Yes, Rafa said Roger made him a better player. And he did. If you're potentially great, and you're chasing great, you'd better up your game. Same with Novak. They were up for the challenge. But there was a certain stutter-step to when they each started/caught fire.

I think Alcaraz has a number of contemporaries with potential. We'll see how it goes, and who pans out. Plus, is Alcaraz another Federer? Will he leave everyone in the dust? This we cannot know. However, at the tender age of 21 and month, he's secured his place in the HoF. He has achieved a certain greatness. If he stays healthy and happy, there is a lot more excellent tennis to come. I feel very good that he has Juan Carlos Ferrero guiding him, whom I believe is a lot like what Uncle Toni was to Rafa. A father-figure, a firm hand, and a calm, guiding force.

 

[The Strokes]

I didn't mean to imply the old "weak era" argument against Federer. But I know it's a sore spot. I really was just talking about Alcaraz being so much at the tail end of the Big 3, but having interesting contemporaries. I know with Roger it's a chicken/egg thing. Was the competition not up to it, or was he just miles ahead of them? Personally, I think both things were true. As you point out, some of the greats Roger faced were old, even if resurgent, in the case of Agassi. But he was too long in the tooth to change his game for Roger. Roddick was too one-dimensional to ever compete with Roger. And don't remind me of the magnificent, mercurial Marat Safin.

Yes, Rafa said Roger made him a better player. And he did. If you're potentially great, and you're chasing great, you'd better up your game. Same with Novak. They were up for the challenge. But there was a certain stutter-step to when they each started/caught fire.

I think Alcaraz has a number of contemporaries with potential. We'll see how it goes, and who pans out. Plus, is Alcaraz another Federer? Will he leave everyone in the dust? This we cannot know. However, at the tender age of 21 and month, he's secured his place in the HoF. He has achieved a certain greatness. If he stays healthy and happy, there is a lot more excellent tennis to come. I feel very good that he has Juan Carlos Ferrero guiding him, whom I believe is a lot like what Uncle Toni was to Rafa. A father-figure, a firm hand, and a calm, guiding force.

I think we don't even know the name yet of one who can really challenge Carlos, he's probably about 14-16 years old now.
By this I mean there's no-one in Carlos cohort with anything like his talent, abilities, variety, mental fortitude, athleticism, work ethic.
Sinner is the closest, but he is not in the same league. I haven't heard a single pundit talk about SInner in the same terms as Alcaraz.
Sinner can give Alcaraz a rough time though, and I'm glad for that, otherwise Alc's big matches would be boring blow-outs. Though honestly, Alcaraz is almost never boring to watch.

With everything he brings to the game, I think he revitalized the sport in the biggest way imaginable.

P.S> Weak era argument is a fact, if it's a sore spot for some, that's their problem. Fed had no real rivals for five years, till Rafa. I think Sinner is a stronger rival to Alcaraz than any of Fed's coohort--Roddick, Hewitt, Safin--were to him.
I think Alcaraz is going to mop up for quite awhile.

 

[Moxie]

I think we don't even know the name yet of one who can really challenge Carlos, he's probably about 14-16 years old now.
By this I mean there's no-one in Carlos cohort with anything like his talent, abilities, variety, mental fortitude, athleticism, work ethic.
Sinner is the closest, but he is not in the same league. I haven't heard a single pundit talk about SInner in the same terms as Alcaraz.
Sinner can give Alcaraz a rough time though, and I'm glad for that, otherwise Alc's big matches would be boring blow-outs. Though honestly, Alcaraz is almost never boring to watch.

With everything he brings to the game, I think he revitalized the sport in the biggest way imaginable.

P.S> Weak era argument is a fact, if it's a sore spot for some, that's their problem. Fed had no real rivals for five years, till Rafa. I think Sinner is a stronger rival to Alcaraz than any of Fed's coohort--Roddick, Hewitt, Safin--were to him.
I think Alcaraz is going to mop up for quite awhile.

Great post! I always appreciate the notion of the "player to be named later." And he will come.

I think Alcaraz has already given us, and the tennis powers-that-be, hope that there is tennis after the Big 3. I do think Sinner will be a worthy rival, and I hope Rune will be, too. And the "player(s)-to-be-named later."

 

[shawnbm]

I think we don't even know the name yet of one who can really challenge Carlos, he's probably about 14-16 years old now.
By this I mean there's no-one in Carlos cohort with anything like his talent, abilities, variety, mental fortitude, athleticism, work ethic.
Sinner is the closest, but he is not in the same league. I haven't heard a single pundit talk about SInner in the same terms as Alcaraz.
Sinner can give Alcaraz a rough time though, and I'm glad for that, otherwise Alc's big matches would be boring blow-outs. Though honestly, Alcaraz is almost never boring to watch.

With everything he brings to the game, I think he revitalized the sport in the biggest way imaginable.

P.S> Weak era argument is a fact, if it's a sore spot for some, that's their problem. Fed had no real rivals for five years, till Rafa. I think Sinner is a stronger rival to Alcaraz than any of Fed's coohort--Roddick, Hewitt, Safin--were to him.
I think Alcaraz is going to mop up for quite awhile.

I will tell you why the weak era argument is not a fact. Just try to imagine that Novak does not win any more majors and slowly goes down over the next two or three years and retires, perhaps grabbing some masters events, perhaps even making a major, and maybe losing one to Carlos even. Also imagine that the young Italian who seems so on the cusp of winning many majors and being a dominant force and has just now reached number one after winning his first major, does an Andy Roddick and loses perhaps half a dozen major championships in the future, perhaps even to Carlos two or three times, and ends up with one major and a number one ranking that he holds for a number of weeks until Carlos goes on to dominate for the next three or four years. Then, when Carlos is around 26 years old some 21-year-old guy begins to challenge him, perhaps only on grass or a hard courts and that player gradually get better and better and challenges him across-the-board and becomes the next number one player. You tell me – – under that scenario, are we right now in a weak era?

I will answer for you. No, we are not. If that were to come to pass, it would simply mean that Carlos is that rare article and one of the truly greats of all time. I am sure you can put together the scenario here. We have aging Novak, aging Andy Murray, the Italian, the Norwegian who has made deep runs at majors, the langy Russian and former world number one and others-- but Carlos may be poised to become the dominant force in my scenario and, if that in fact does come to pass, I do not believe that there is weakness in the field today more than I believe it was weakness in 2003 to 2005. Sorry, it just does not play.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Juan Carlos Ferrero on Carlos Alcaraz ( source Lequipe)

"He hasnt reached his peak, we are far from it.We are trying to find the mental stability that he lacks of, so that he can maintain a very high level in a whole match.It will come with experience.We keep working on this".

 

[nehmeth]

Juan Carlos Ferrero on Carlos Alcaraz ( source Lequipe)

"He hasnt reached his peak, we are far from it.We are trying to find the mental stability that he lacks of, so that he can maintain a very high level in a whole match.It will come with experience.We keep working on this".

These echo my thoughts re: Carlos. The sooner JCF is able to help Carlos reach this place, the longer his reign will be. That they are actually working toward this should terrify the rest of the ATP. I like Jannik very much, but he is not able to soar to the levels that Carlos can reach almost effortlessly.

 

[Moxie]

I will tell you why the weak era argument is not a fact. Just try to imagine that Novak does not win any more majors and slowly goes down over the next two or three years and retires, perhaps grabbing some masters events, perhaps even making a major, and maybe losing one to Carlos even. Also imagine that the young Italian who seems so on the cusp of winning many majors and being a dominant force and has just now reached number one after winning his first major, does an Andy Roddick and loses perhaps half a dozen major championships in the future, perhaps even to Carlos two or three times, and ends up with one major and a number one ranking that he holds for a number of weeks until Carlos goes on to dominate for the next three or four years. Then, when Carlos is around 26 years old some 21-year-old guy begins to challenge him, perhaps only on grass or a hard courts and that player gradually get better and better and challenges him across-the-board and becomes the next number one player. You tell me – – under that scenario, are we right now in a weak era?

I will answer for you. No, we are not. If that were to come to pass, it would simply mean that Carlos is that rare article and one of the truly greats of all time. I am sure you can put together the scenario here. We have aging Novak, aging Andy Murray, the Italian, the Norwegian who has made deep runs at majors, the langy Russian and former world number one and others-- but Carlos may be poised to become the dominant force in my scenario and, if that in fact does come to pass, I do not believe that there is weakness in the field today more than I believe it was weakness in 2003 to 2005. Sorry, it just does not play.

Alright, alright. As I said, it was a stray comment. I was really just thinking about Carlos, not old war wounds.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

These echo my thoughts re: Carlos. The sooner JCF is able to help Carlos reach this place, the longer his reign will be. That they are actually working toward this should terrify the rest of the ATP. I like Jannik very much, but he is not able to soar to the levels that Carlos can reach almost effortlessly.

I think Carlos has a 'higher ceiling' than Jannik, we saw that in their SF match on clay at RG, Jannik went out in R2 last year at RG, so making a SF this year, was a good improvement, though in saying that, it isJanniks worst surface clay, I feel Janniks game is more suited to grass and HC, I feel Carlos and Jannik will have interesting match ups going forward on both these surfaces

 

[the AntiPusher]

John's comments..




I understand John's comments as far as how skilled Carlos is but No. At age 21, I'm still take Novak's, Roger's and Rafa's abilities to problem solve and would be a to defeat the top ten players of THIS generation. I don't see Carlos defeating Sampras at 21 or Federer on grass , Novak at AO or Rafa ...will we know God hasn't created a person EVER that could defeat Rafa on clay if all conditions hold TRUE at RG. I would say at the US I would give Carlos a chance especially if he keeps serving like he did at times on Sunday at 130 plus. Where did that come from!

 

[shawnbm]

^ I do believe I would take the angelic assassin from Sweden over the great Spanish bull if they were playing with wooden rackets and the tennis balls of that era!

 

[the AntiPusher]

^ I do believe I would take the angelic assassin from Sweden over the great Spanish bull if they were playing with wooden rackets and the tennis balls of that era!

Bjorn was a great athlete but Rafa's had the ability to problem solve would have gave him the edge over Borg. Rafa was a bit better mover on clay and just like Novak and Roger could turn defense into offense even while sliding on the clay. I definitely understand why you chose Bjorn because he was one of the original masters of the clay.

 

[shawnbm]

I don't know, that is why I prefaced what I said by talking about using the wooden rackets. I do not know if the Spaniard was faster than the great Swede. I think they were probably equally fast. I do think Borg had more stamina than even the great Spaniard or Novak. He was quite accustomed to 30 and 40 stroke rallies. He was also mentally very strong and a great tactician as well. There is no way to truly compared, naturally, but in his own way he was as dominant as the Spaniard was during his era on the red dirt. There is no way of knowing how Borg would have done with today's technology and rackets. Clearly, he would have had to make himself stronger upper body-wise, so maybe he would not have been the same player. We can't compare players from different generations, as many have said. It is fun to think about, though.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I don't know, that is why I prefaced what I said by talking about using the wooden rackets. I do not know if the Spaniard was faster than the great Swede. I think they were probably equally fast. I do think Borg had more stamina than even the great Spaniard or Novak. He was quite accustomed to 30 and 40 stroke rallies. He was also mentally very strong and a great tactician as well. There is no way to truly compared, naturally, but in his own way he was as dominant as the Spaniard was during his era on the red dirt. There is no way of knowing how Borg would have done with today's technology and rackets. Clearly, he would have had to make himself stronger upper body-wise, so maybe he would not have been the same player. We can't compare players from different generations, as many have said. It is fun to think about, though.

One thing that puzzles me is why today's players havent incorporated the top spin lob Into their arsenal that Borg mastered so well. Shawn I remember the first shot I mastered was the topspin lob and I knew that I had arrived as a tennis player because if I was ever put in a awkward defensive position, I could throw up a top spin lob to get myself out of trouble and reset the point.

 

[shawnbm]

The Iceman was a master of that quality shot indeed!