Brexit

[Federberg]

I think anybody who voted Brexit should have been well aware that there was going to be short term economic pain.... bound to happen... question is whether people have the stomach to see it out. People who voted out panicking a week after the result is kind of silly. What Cameron has done though by not invoking Article 50 is to breed uncertainty and to leave the UK in limbo. Markets don't like uncertainty... investors don't like uncertainty...

Mate you keep saying that, but there is no way Cameron should or could do that when he has resigned. Sadly I think a large number of Brexit voters didn't really understand the consequences. Despite countless warnings.

In any case there are so many levels of uncertainty here that invoking the Article would just expose others. It's not that simple

 

[Federberg]

bwahahaha! Gove is going to run. Don't think Boris expected that. Don't discount Teresa May. The Tories have always shunned the favourites, just think back to another blondie.. Hesseltine. Would be poetic justice if Boris is passed over

 

[Mary]

He is a total idiot! I don't think Boris can do it either - would be too unpopular with the public.

Sad to see Keir Starmer resigning. I felt he could have been a future PM

 

[Mary]

Mate you keep saying that, but there is no way Cameron should or could do that when he has resigned. Sadly I think a large number of Brexit voters didn't really understand the consequences. Despite countless warnings.

In any case there are so many levels of uncertainty here that invoking the Article would just expose others. It's not that simple

I honestly don't thin a lot of the voters were thinking about Brexit. The post industrial deprived areas feel so frustrated and let down by successive governments. When you feel under attack and some fool gives you a hammer you don't really think hard about what you hit.

 

[Mary]

Mate you keep saying that, but there is no way Cameron should or could do that when he has resigned. Sadly I think a large number of Brexit voters didn't really understand the consequences. Despite countless warnings.

In any case there are so many levels of uncertainty here that invoking the Article would just expose others. It's not that simple

I honestly don't think a lot of the voters were thinking about Brexit. The post industrial deprived areas feel so frustrated and let down by successive governments. When you feel under attack and some fool gives you a hammer you don't really think hard about what you hit.

 

[Federberg]

I honestly don't think a lot of the voters were thinking about Brexit. The post industrial deprived areas feel so frustrated and let down by successive governments. When you feel under attack and some fool gives you a hammer you don't really think hard about what you hit.

I agree

 

[Mary]

I agree

And now farewell dear Boris. Will we ever see him again?

 

[Federberg]

No way he's going to be able to run now. He's done for life so far as I can see. And I'm not sorry about that! Teresa May would be the logical unity candidate. Labour supporters would be ok with her.

But here's some stuff someone was telling me recently. Jo Cox's seat will be unopposed as a mark of respect. Some people in the upper echelons of the Labour party are suggesting David Milliband should take the seat. If that's the case, then whoever wins the pending Labour contest might just be a stop gap before David Milliband assumes the throne. That will make Tory MP's extremely nervous

 

[britbox]

And now farewell dear Boris. Will we ever see him again?

That's a big surprise @Mary. Not overly enthused by the remaining contendors to be honest. I'd really like David Davis to throw his hat in the ring... I think he could connect with a part of the country that the Tories have effectively ruled as wasteland.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36672591

Of the remaining contendors I think I'd prefer Liam Fox or Stephen Crabbe. Crabbe is another who isn't from the Old Etonian conveyor belt.

 

[britbox]

No way he's going to be able to run now. He's done for life so far as I can see. And I'm not sorry about that! Teresa May would be the logical unity candidate. Labour supporters would be ok with her.

But here's some stuff someone was telling me recently. Jo Cox's seat will be unopposed as a mark of respect. Some people in the upper echelons of the Labour party are suggesting David Milliband should take the seat. If that's the case, then whoever wins the pending Labour contest might just be a stop gap before David Milliband assumes the throne. That will make Tory MP's extremely nervous

Not sure Federberg - with the current leftist Labour Party membership, I'm not sure Milliband could get the required mandate... he certainly would with the Parliamentary Labour Party but he'll need more than that for the leadership. Would the unions back Corbyn a second time around? Probably not... It'll be very interesting who they get. Andy Burnham might be the man.

 

[Mary]

That's a big surprise @Mary. Not overly enthused by the remaining contendors to be honest. I'd really like David Davis to throw his hat in the ring... I think he could connect with a part of the country that the Tories have effectively ruled as wasteland.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36672591

Of the remaining contendors I think I'd prefer Liam Fox or Stephen Crabbe. Crabbe is another who isn't from the Old Etonian conveyor belt.

I am not surprised. He would not have been welcomed by the city and that is a big issue for the Tories. Marvellous isn't it. Two old Etonians create this shambles and both resign within a week!

I have a lot of time for Davis but I give who ever leads now four years max. It's going to be a no win position in the timescale they could have. I don't like May but then I don't like any Tory much!! She is competent though and spoke well about her credentials this morning. She recognised that of course Johnson had experience of negotiating in Europe." Last time he negotiated he came back with 3 partially used water cannons!!!" Beautiful. But I don't think she'd go down well with the Police Fed and that could be an issue. And of course she was Remain.

Would love to see David Milliband back but for the same reasons not as leader in this next period. Give it a couple of years and he'd get the Unions. he was always popular with Unison. And he has not been part of this debacle which would help. Not sure about Burnham - he lost last time round.

I can't over state the anger of the Labour Membership right now. We fund the party, campaign for them, march about in the rain posting leaflets for them, work tirelessly within the constituency for them for no pay. And this is done against the wishes of 90% of the CLPs. I still think the party will and should split. The left wing can never live with the Blairites. I would rather see a smaller opposition true to it's principles and respecting its membership.

 

[Federberg]

^ did you vote for Corbyn, Mary?

 

[britbox]

She was Remain but I also believe she had deep reservations about voting to stay in. I always thought the Blairites were just as much old one-nation conservatives (Tory whets) as they were Labour... the distinction was very blurred.

I'd never really seen Theresa as leadership material but she's now the bookies favourites. I don't think Davis will stand. I prefer her to Gove - she's less divisive.

The Parliamentary Labour party have been particularly arrogant over Corbyn... there is bound to be a big backlash from the members.

Interesting to see how this pans out on both sides of the house. I'm more confident Brexit will be carried out now that Johnson is out of the race.. I didn't trust him.

 

[britbox]

 

[Federberg]

^I didn't trust his motives for campaigning to 'Leave', so I'm glad he's gone. Would have forced me to abstain in protest otherwise.

Re: your other post. That's to be expected after a collapse. You get a consolidation afterwards. The question is what happens next? If the UK does leave the EU then we could easily see more market turmoil. Probably less indiscriminate this time, as valuations are updated to reflect new conditions. Some strategists have already suggested that GBP could go to parity against both the euro and dollar. So much for going away on holiday to those places.. uggh!

 

[Mary]

She was Remain but I also believe she had deep reservations about voting to stay in. I always thought the Blairites were just as much old one-nation conservatives (Tory whets) as they were Labour... the distinction was very blurred.

I'd never really seen Theresa as leadership material but she's now the bookies favourites. I don't think Davis will stand. I prefer her to Gove - she's less divisive.

The Parliamentary Labour party have been particularly arrogant over Corbyn... there is bound to be a big backlash from the members.

Interesting to see how this pans out on both sides of the house. I'm more confident Brexit will be carried out now that Johnson is out of the race.. I didn't trust him.

I can't believe anyone trusted Boris - either a fool or cunning and in hindsight both!

I find it hard to understand the lingering support for Blair. He was right that labour needed to engage with businesses to win votes but again was arrogant towards the membership. The labour vote and membership fell dramatically in his time and he is now discredited and I wish would sit back and count his millions and keep out of UK politics. And like you there was no clear distinction between the labour right and Tory left.

3.15 pm - no sign of a challenge to labour leadership. Rumours about Miliband's return still growing.

 

[Mary]

^ did you vote for Corbyn, Mary?

No. I voted for Burnham and for Watson as Deputy. But I totally accepted the mandate. My personal view was that all his life Corbyn has been an anti establishment rebel and a very good one. I admire his guts and his principles and his refusal to join in the parliamentary sniggering and braying which absolutely disgusts me. But I felt the leader needed to be able to work with the establishment and doubted that he could do that. I also felt that leading the party to a general election victory would be too demanding for a man of his age. I don't mean that to be ageist - I am older than he is. But we lose the energy and the fitness to fight and at that point an election looked a full term away.

But as you have gathered I am a left winger and most of my working life was public sector - both ,local govt and health. And I feel very strongly about the issues I have already posted on - areas of poverty and alienation and racism. I also care a lot about small businesses - my last 20 years were self emplyed working on training and management consultancy for the public sector and I became very aware of how hard it is for a small business especially when the big ones delay payment.

I worked a lot on equality issues in the NHS and GLC and other London Authorities. This included working very close to Livingstone and Dave Prentis. A real political education! Livingstone is effectively gone now. I most admired in him his coolness under fire - he would let it all wash over him and smile in a way I never could. Dave Prentis is a major force for any party to reckon with - as tough as they come and very very clever.
I don't see myself as a loonie leftie or as a hater of those of other political opinions. I truly believe what Jo said - we have more in common than political differences. We are all the product of our background and interests and constructive dialogue and listening have to be at the heart of good government. What I do hate is shouting down of others, bullying and closed minds. And a huge issue is non involvement of large numbers in the population.

Well that is me out of the closet!!!

 

[britbox]

I can't believe anyone trusted Boris - either a fool or cunning and in hindsight both!

I find it hard to understand the lingering support for Blair. He was right that labour needed to engage with businesses to win votes but again was arrogant towards the membership. The labour vote and membership fell dramatically in his time and he is now discredited and I wish would sit back and count his millions and keep out of UK politics. And like you there was no clear distinction between the labour right and Tory left.

3.15 pm - no sign of a challenge to labour leadership. Rumours about Miliband's return still growing.

Blair had the world at his feet in 97, there was a feel good feeling around the country IMO and I thought his first term was OK... but downhill after then... He blew a huge opportunity.

 

[Mary]

Blair had the world at his feet in 97, there was a feel good feeling around the country IMO and I thought his first term was OK... but downhill after then... He blew a huge opportunity.

I think it was a great victory after so long out of office. But I never liked him. He had shadowed I think or at any event had a great interest in, my field of Education and Training and I came across him a few times prior to 97. I felt he was a bit of a weasel!

 

[Federberg]

I think it was a great victory after so long out of office. But I never liked him. He had shadowed I think or at any event had a great interest in, my field of Education and Training and I came across him a few times prior to 97. I felt he was a bit of a weasel!

Lol! It's always interesting hearing about interactions with politicians. My ex- is a doctor, and she had dealings with Cameron before he was PM. She looked after his son, the one who subsequently died, for a while. Her view was that he was one of those extremely pushy guys who really thinks he's the "Big I am", and took an instant dislike to him. Probably one of the reasons I've never been able to warm to him