BNP Paribas Masters - ATP 1000 - Oct. 27th to Nov. 2nd

[Kieran]

Andy up 5-3. Let's see how deep Grigor digs here, Murray is coming off a tough few weeks, but he's grooved, whereas the younger man is in dire need of a win...

 

[tented]

Andy up 5-3. Let's see how deep Grigor digs here, Murray is coming off a tough few weeks, but he's grooved, whereas the younger man is in dire need of a win...

Grigor DFs to give Andy the set. :cover

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Murray playing well, Dimitrov isn't, all there is to it at the moment. As long as Andy doesn't lose concentration at the start of the second set, this should be done in straights...

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[Kieran]

Andy up 5-3. Let's see how deep Grigor digs here, Murray is coming off a tough few weeks, but he's grooved, whereas the younger man is in dire need of a win...

Grigor DFs to give Andy the set. :cover

 

[DarthFed]

Andy up 5-3. Let's see how deep Grigor digs here, Murray is coming off a tough few weeks, but he's grooved, whereas the younger man is in dire need of a win...

Grigor DFs to give Andy the set. :cover

Better eat that popcorn fast...

 

[Federberg]

Still too early to cast him off but I actually viewed the semi vs. Nole at Wimbledon as a negative. It was competitive but as soon as there was a chance to really make it a brawl he pretty much couldn't win a point similar to what happened in AO vs. Nadal (which was understandable at the time since it was his first big match). And what's happened since Wimbledon has been really bad on what should be good surfaces for him.

I think we should give the guy a break. He beat the reigning Wimbledon champion, then lost to the world number 1. Big woop It takes time to build up the required psychological stamina to perform great feats. I don't think it's that different from when Roger took out Sampras then got schooled by Henman. Now don't anyone get their knickers in a twist.. I'm not equating Murray with the Pistol. Just pointing out he did big things. He's made a big step forward this year. He ain't as good as Roger, but his evolution is probably going to be similar, because like him he has so many options.

I'm guessing he'll make more progress next year, I would only question him if that's not the case..

 

[DarthFed]

Still too early to cast him off but I actually viewed the semi vs. Nole at Wimbledon as a negative. It was competitive but as soon as there was a chance to really make it a brawl he pretty much couldn't win a point similar to what happened in AO vs. Nadal (which was understandable at the time since it was his first big match). And what's happened since Wimbledon has been really bad on what should be good surfaces for him.

I think we should give the guy a break. He beat the reigning Wimbledon champion, then lost to the world number 1. Big woop It takes time to build up the required psychological stamina to perform great feats. I don't think it's that different from when Roger took out Sampras then got schooled by Henman. Now don't anyone get their knickers in a twist.. I'm not equating Murray with the Pistol. Just pointing out he did big things. He's made a big step forward this year. He ain't as good as Roger, but his evolution is probably going to be similar, because like him he has so many options.

I'm guessing he'll make more progress next year, I would only question him if that's not the case..

Can't disagree with that. Like I said it is too early to cast him off but I don't think this year was a big step in the right direction and that's the problem. There was progress made but he went AWOL after Wimbledon and really struggled in the big moments of the few big matches he was in.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Dimitrov was right up there in the middle of the year and he's tailed off, from his point of view it is a slight cause for concern, and he'll face a new challenge of defending some significant points hauls next year too.

Looks like he's getting packed off on holiday in a somewhat concerning fashion here too...

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[herios]

Kieran, you almost sound offended by Grigor. He is what he is. I know he could be more, but even if he never wins a Slam he's probably going to be a regular in the top 10 for years to come. He could be to Kyrgios/Coric/Zverev what Berdych, Tsonga, and Ferrer are to Novak and Rafa.

:huh:

I thought you expected him to be the next great player and win a few slams in the process? Given up on him already?

My take is the expectations were way too high, unrealistically almost, just because his style was reminiscent of Roger. He is talented all right, but talent will take you only to a point. There is a lot more beside that which makes a complete elite player.
As soon as he won Stockholm last fall, people including here on boards thought he would start winning events left and right.
And the end of the day, Grigor started the year at ranked 23, he "visited" top 10 for a little while and he has settled as ranked 11 where he will finish the year and with his 3 events won, you can not discount this as a bad year at all.
He needs to play smarter and add to his tennis IQ, plus have some winning strategies out there.

 

[El Dude]

Kieran, you almost sound offended by Grigor. He is what he is. I know he could be more, but even if he never wins a Slam he's probably going to be a regular in the top 10 for years to come. He could be to Kyrgios/Coric/Zverev what Berdych, Tsonga, and Ferrer are to Novak and Rafa.

Meh. I went off him. Maybe not permanently, but for the moment. If he winds up like Tsonga or Berdy, then I'll really be offended...

Well so far his career trajectory--based upon year-end rankings by age--is more like a Masters winner, or perhaps a 1-2 Slam winner, than it is like a true multi-Slam winner. Don't know if that's partially because players are blooming later or not. But comparing him to historical precendents, I figure the range is like so:

Worst-case scenario: Almagro, Simon, Gonzalez - occasional top 10 player, low-end titles (500, 250) only, with maybe an apperance in a Slam or Masters final or two.

Moderate scenario: Tsonga, Berdych, Wawrinka, Soderling, Davydenko - regular top 10 player, several big titles, maybe one Slam.

Best-case scenario: Kuerten, Safin, Ferrero, Moya, Roddick, Murray - top 5 player, perhaps #1 at some point; a handful of big titles, including 1-3 Slams.

At this point I'd probably give him chances of something like 20/50/30 for the three scenarios.

 

[herios]

I'm guessing he'll make more progress next year, I would only question him if that's not the case..

This is exactly my take too with Grigor. he needs more development. And he will never be like Roger. Sorry for all those who thought he will be.

 

[tented]

Fergus Murphy must be a sad, lonely, frustrated man. What a buzzkill to give Murray a warning after a 37-shot rally.

 

[El Dude]

herios, see post above. I never expected him to be the "next great player." But I thought he might be the best player of the "Lost Generation" born in the 1989-94ish range. I think that's still possible, even likely. I mean who is better? Raonic and Nishikori are close. We need to see more from Vesely and Thiem.

Multiple Slams might come about simply because he'll be peaking when the Big Four are declining and perhaps before the next group reaches their peak.

I am pleased with his year overall. From #23 to #11 isn't half bad. I expect that he'll end next year in the #4-8 range and I could see him being a dark horse for a Masters title. I think missing out on the WTF this year will be the best medicine for him.

 

[Kieran]

That's it, Dude, I agree: maybe missing the WTF will remind him that he doesn't have to wait til everybody rolls over and dies before he makes his move. Could be the making of him. Regardless, I hope he isn't satisfied with just incremental moves up the rankings. And for the record, I don't "expect" him to be a Roger either, but a Jim Courier is possible, although it's not guaranteed...

 

[brokenshoelace]

I don't think anyone legitimately thought Dimitrov would be "like Roger." The "Baby Fed" thing is more in relation to their games looking similar, not career projections. I think you could be the most talented wonder-kid in history and nobody would label you the next Federer since this implies double digit majors that round up to twenty.

 

[Federberg]

herios, see post above. I never expected him to be the "next great player." But I thought he might be the best player of the "Lost Generation" born in the 1989-94ish range. I think that's still possible, even likely. I mean who is better? Raonic and Nishikori are close. We need to see more from Vesely and Thiem.

Multiple Slams might come about simply because he'll be peaking when the Big Four are declining and perhaps before the next group reaches their peak.

I am pleased with his year overall. From #23 to #11 isn't half bad. I expect that he'll end next year in the #4-8 range and I could see him being a dark horse for a Masters title. I think missing out on the WTF this year will be the best medicine for him.

It's tough to say what will happen Dude. The thing with the trajectory for the type of player Dimi is.. is that it could click suddenly and then everything we thought is thrown out. I think the thing he's lacking right now is more mental. And that will always take time with that sort of talent. As I said he's no Roger, but it wouldn't shock me if he wins multiple slams.

 

[El Dude]

I agree, federberg. Who had the "moving parts" theory about him, was it herios?

Kieran, he could be like a Bizarro World Jim Courier. Where Courier flashed briefly (and very brightly) in his early 20s (especially age 21-23), even dominating over his peers Sampras and Agassi for a bit there, he declined rapidly. Maybe Dimitrov's peak will be more like age 25-28. Dimitrov turns 25 in 2016, the year Roger turns 35, Rafa 30, and Novak and Andy 29. Kyrgios will be turning 21 and Coric 19, so they'll probably still be a bit away from their prime.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Murray wins 63 63 and confirms his place at the World Tour Finals. If Tsonga beats Nishikori next, that makes it likely for Andy to be 4th seed in London too.

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[GameSetAndMath]

It is official, Andy made it to WTF. It is also official that Grigor is no more in contention.

 

[Federberg]

It is official, Andy made it to WTF. It is also official that Grigor is no more in contention.

best thing for Grigor. With his current form he could get such a beating it sets him back half a year. Blessing in disguise!