Barcelona Open 2019, Spain, ATP 500

[GameSetAndMath]

I did not see the match. From what I hear, it was not competitive.

Anyway, congrats to Thiem on winning the title. At least this time (unlike the last two times), he did not lose the trophy to an undeserving guy after winning against Ralph.

 

[herios]

Anyhow, congrats to Thiem on his 13th title and first Barcelona. He joins a rather small group of active players who have won the tournament in the Nadal era (other than Nadal): Nishikori (2014-15), Verdasco (2010), Robredo (2004).

13 titles also ties him with Almagro and Berdych.

Active Players 10+ Titles
101 Federer
80 Nadal
73 Djokovic
45 Murray
27 Ferrer
22 Del Potro
18 Cilic
17 Tsonga
16 Wawrinka
15 Gasquet
14 Isner, Simon
13 Almagro, Berdych, Thiem
12 Nishikori, Robredo
10 Youzhny, Zverev, Querrey

Youzhny retired last year.

 

[Fiero425]

I did not see the match. From what I hear, it was not competitive.

Anyway, congrats to Thiem on winning the title. At least this time (unlike the last two times), he did not lose the trophy to an undeserving guy after winning against Ralph.

I watched a bit! IMO Thiem just won convincingly! Medvedev may have been hurt or not interested, but they had a number of great points; Dominic just happened to win most of them! Med ran to a 3-0 lead, but allowed Dom to finally get his act together; esp. with that sliced backhand and took over! Simple! The score is probably a little deceptive showing what really happened in the match! :whistle:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So, Thiem has beaten both Federer and Nadal this year.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Congrats to Thiem. I hope he got a call from Muster , a two time champion there, to give him kudos.

 

[mrzz]

yup... it's the difference between looking at numbers on a sheet and watching actual tennis

I get what you are trying to say, but the "cold" stats point of view is not to be dismissed. A few months ago two posters were discussing if Thiem would win a MS 1000 this year or not. One said yes, the other said he would barely make a semi. Who do you think they were?

El Dude was the one who posted that Thiem would win, and I was precisely the one who posted that (given his current form), he would barely make a semi. What happened is that I had just watched two matches, the Buenos Aires loss to Schwartzman, and... (well, forgot the other). They were terrible, really hard to watch. A good forehand here and there, and that's it. I was baffled. Even though I heard something about injury, all in all I thought it would be quite hard for the guy to get back to his best level. As it is obvious now, I was completely wrong.

Watching matches, sometimes, it is like looking at a small stripe of a long time series. It can make you miss the bigger picture (as I did). Of course, others could have been wiser in their assessments, but still..

Anyway, I still think that stats tell the wrong story about this guy. My gut feeling is that he will turn the page in other surfaces, and soon enough will be a factor everywhere.

 

[El Dude]

^He did win Indian Wells, which could mean he's already turning the corner on hards. And to be fair, I thought he'd win a clay Masters--which he might yet--not one on hards. Watching him today for a bit and he definitely looked formidable - not quite as ball-bashy as I've seen in the past. Moxie mentioned Wawrinka as a comp that she didn't want to comp, and I think it makes sense. Or Safin. Guys who don't have to run all over the place because they can dictate each point, when they're on.

Anyhow, we might be seeing Thiem take another half step forward and enter his true peak. Age-wise it would make sense, him being 25. At the very least it makes clay season a lot more interesting.

 

[Moxie]

By "makes the clay season more interesting" seems to translate, for some folks, into: someone can beat Nadal. I actually thought the clay season has already gotten more interesting in many ways during this European clay swing and the So. American one. Not all world beaters, but a lot of players to be contended with. Depth of field makes the whole thing more susceptible to upset. Thiem is holding up his end as 2/3 player on clay, (provisional until we see what Novak is really coming up with.) He's going to enter Madrid with a lot of confidence. I know the notion of him over-playing is an old trope, but I wonder if he'll consider dropping Rome, depending on how he does in Madrid.

 

[El Dude]

By "makes the clay season more interesting" seems to translate, for some folks, into: someone can beat Nadal. I actually thought the clay season has already gotten more interesting in many ways during this European clay swing and the So. American one. Not all world beaters, but a lot of players to be contended with. Depth of field makes the whole thing more susceptible to upset. Thiem is holding up his end as 2/3 player on clay, (provisional until we see what Novak is really coming up with.) He's going to enter Madrid with a lot of confidence. I know the notion of him over-playing is an old trope, but I wonder if he'll consider dropping Rome, depending on how he does in Madrid.

From a "tennis fan perspective" yes, the fact that Nadal seems vulnerable makes it more interesting. Nothing vindictive meant by it.

 

[Moxie]

From a "tennis fan perspective" yes, the fact that Nadal seems vulnerable makes it more interesting. Nothing vindictive meant by it.

I'm not saying you're being vindictive, I'm just saying that there are so many other players who are demonstrating chops on clay. It's what Mrzz was saying about perspective on tennis: some folks look at clay as the anomaly, some as the default tennis. For those that don't appreciate clay, it's all about whether Rafa wins, or not. For those of us that love clay, there's a whole lot going on. It's not all "tennis fan perspective," just the ones that don't pay much attention to clay that think the only story is whether or not Rafa is beatable.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Congrats to Thiem

After a false start in the first two months he has turned things around.

Has to be ahead of Djokovic now in clay court tournament favorites

 

[El Dude]

I'm not saying you're being vindictive, I'm just saying that there are so many other players who are demonstrating chops on clay. It's what Mrzz was saying about perspective on tennis: some folks look at clay as the anomaly, some as the default tennis. For those that don't appreciate clay, it's all about whether Rafa wins, or not. For those of us that love clay, there's a whole lot going on. It's not all "tennis fan perspective," just the ones that don't pay much attention to clay that think the only story is whether or not Rafa is beatable.

You're creating an "us vs them" thing that I don't really vibe with. First of all, tennis fans aren't split between those that love clay and those that don't appreciate it. Some of us see it as one of three major surfaces, each with their own unique and interesting qualities, one not inherently superior to the other.

Clay has been utterly dominated one Nadal for 15 years now. I don't think it is unreasonable to consider that as having an impact on interest.

Here's a stat for you: Since Rafa won his first clay big title (Monte Carlo, 2005), there have been 57 clay big titles. Of those 57, Rafa has played all but two of them, Hamburg in 2005 and '06. Of the 55 he's played, he's won 35 of them - that's 64%, an incredible ratio.

 

[Federberg]

By "makes the clay season more interesting" seems to translate, for some folks, into: someone can beat Nadal. I actually thought the clay season has already gotten more interesting in many ways during this European clay swing and the So. American one. Not all world beaters, but a lot of players to be contended with. Depth of field makes the whole thing more susceptible to upset. Thiem is holding up his end as 2/3 player on clay, (provisional until we see what Novak is really coming up with.) He's going to enter Madrid with a lot of confidence. I know the notion of him over-playing is an old trope, but I wonder if he'll consider dropping Rome, depending on how he does in Madrid.

I think you're being a tad defensive here. No one can dispute the fact that the less inevitable a Nadal win in any clay tournament makes the event more compelling. That said... Rafa has to be in attendance because it's the actual David vs Rafa's Goliath that makes the drama

 

[isabelle]

great for Dominator, hope ce can win RG one day

 

[tented]

great for Dominator, hope ce can win RG one day

If he stays healthy, I can’t imagine him not winning it at some point ... maybe even this year.

 

[Moxie]

I think you're being a tad defensive here. No one can dispute the fact that the less inevitable a Nadal win in any clay tournament makes the event more compelling. That said... Rafa has to be in attendance because it's the actual David vs Rafa's Goliath that makes the drama

I knew someone was going to feel that had to call me out for being defensive, but it does get really old, for those of us who like clay, to hear from a certain large faction here that, ' oh, yawn, the clay season again. Wake me when it's over.'

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I knew someone was going to feel that had to call me out for being defensive, but it does get really old, for those of us who like clay, to hear from a certain large faction here that, ' oh, yawn, the clay season again. Wake me when it's over.'

No, just wake me an hour before Rafa is about to lose.

 

[Federberg]

I knew someone was going to feel that had to call me out for being defensive, but it does get really old, for those of us who like clay, to hear from a certain large faction here that, ' oh, yawn, the clay season again. Wake me when it's over.'

I've never felt that way. Clay tennis is tennis. My only gripe is the slowing down of other surfaces

 

[Moxie]

No, just wake me an hour before Rafa is about to lose.

You are one committed hate-watcher, I'll give you that. :lulz2:

 

[Moxie]

I've never felt that way. Clay tennis is tennis. My only gripe is the slowing down of other surfaces

Well, that would be you. There are other folks around here and over the years who spend a lot of time discounting clay and bemoaning how boring the season is, because of Rafa.