Barcelona Open 2019, Spain, ATP 500

[Moxie]

Lol! You're absolutely right. I freely admit my stylistic resentment. If this type of play is given space to breathe just on clay and wasn't nurtured on other surfaces I would be even more tolerant and probably embrace it. That's why the last couple of decades of slowing has been such a disappointment. I'll admit it, I miss the heck out of carpet I respect what Rafa does and what he's achieved. I just don't.... love it

But is it just surface that gives rise to longer rallies? Isn't it also string technology? And the improved fitness of players? I don't deny that the powers that be slowed the surfaces, generally, to produce more exciting/interesting tennis, whether you agree with that or not. But it's not the only reason we have a more baseline game, across the board. As to carpet...eww...that has always just seemed like a fungal infection waiting to happen, to me, aside from how boring it was. And the general reason given was that it led to too many injuries. Can you really argue with that?

 

[Horsa]

Horsa, I see that you do know that I didn't mean you. All that Mrzz said is correct. I know you love tennis, or you wouldn't be here. There really aren't that many trolls around. I don't even mean "trolls" by people I disagree with. A "troll" is a specific thing, and you are not it.

I know that now, Moxie. Mrzz is correct about 99.99% of the time. I explained why I thought the way I did earlier. I know. Thank you very much. :0)

 

[mrzz]

Mrzz is correct about 99.99% of the time

Actually it is 99,9834%.

 

[Moxie]

Actually it is 99,9834%.

You're just being modest.

 

[Horsa]

Actually it is 99,9834%.

Well, I'd have rounded it to 99.99% & notice I said about which means I'm approximating. You're allowed a bit of leeway when you're being approximate & stating it. I only have problems with people who give inaccurate figures when they don't state that they're approximate or say around or around about before stating them. Lol. :0)

 

[Federberg]

But is it just surface that gives rise to longer rallies? Isn't it also string technology? And the improved fitness of players? I don't deny that the powers that be slowed the surfaces, generally, to produce more exciting/interesting tennis, whether you agree with that or not. But it's not the only reason we have a more baseline game, across the board. As to carpet...eww...that has always just seemed like a fungal infection waiting to happen, to me, aside from how boring it was. And the general reason given was that it led to too many injuries. Can you really argue with that?

My point is that there might have been a justification for slowing courts down in the mid 90s when string technology hadn't caught up yet with racquet technology. But once that happened there's no reason why surfaces couldn't be sped up again. I would argue that longer attritional rallies increase the likelihood of injuries. Shorter quicker points would be a welcome addition to the product in my view. I suspect that the powers that be have seen how marketable the stars have become and are reluctant to do anything that shakes the hegemony. Now is the time to correct this when this dominant group is surely set to decline. If you have no overwhelming stars with uniform surface speeds the odds of a big fall in interest is even higher. Create a portfolio of products and see what generates the interest I say

 

[Moxie]

My point is that there might have been a justification for slowing courts down in the mid 90s when string technology hadn't caught up yet with racquet technology. But once that happened there's no reason why surfaces couldn't be sped up again. I would argue that longer attritional rallies increase the likelihood of injuries. Shorter quicker points would be a welcome addition to the product in my view. I suspect that the powers that be have seen how marketable the stars have become and are reluctant to do anything that shakes the hegemony. Now is the time to correct this when this dominant group is surely set to decline. If you have no overwhelming stars with uniform surface speeds the odds of a big fall in interest is even higher. Create a portfolio of products and see what generates the interest I say

Yeah, I get that. If they're so interested in speeding the game along by shaving a few seconds here and there with a shot clock, you'd think they'd consider a faster game all around. But as you say: why not try some things and see what appeals?

 

[Federberg]

Yeah, I get that. If they're so interested in speeding the game along by shaving a few seconds here and there with a shot clock, you'd think they'd consider a faster game all around. But as you say: why not try some things and see what appeals?

exactly! All this nonsense about getting rid of lets. That's fine. But there are more appropriate things to do to keep the game vibrant that don't fundamentally change things.

 

[El Dude]

I know we've talked about this before, but I'd like to see a grass Masters added to the mix, probably Halle, and then turn one of the hard court Masters into an ATP 500. It is a small change, but it would both make "grass season" more meaningful and also add another faster big title.

 

[Federberg]

^I wouldn't have a problem with that. But that means making the grass swing longer

 

[Fiero425]

^I wouldn't have a problem with that. But that means making the grass swing longer

It's already been extended too long even though I agree a grass court Masters would make sense! When I was watching as a kid, a week after the FO they were hitting the 1st serves at Wimbledon! Queens and WTA's Eastbourne was all there was at the time! Now it's a half a dozen events between the tours before the start at SW19! At least we still have our own event afterwards in Newport! :whistle:

 

[Fefe26]

And can anyone justify Moya’s continued presence?

I was thinking the same thing. Rafa's game needs some major improvement.

 

[Moxie]

I know we've talked about this before, but I'd like to see a grass Masters added to the mix, probably Halle, and then turn one of the hard court Masters into an ATP 500. It is a small change, but it would both make "grass season" more meaningful and also add another faster big title.

^I wouldn't have a problem with that. But that means making the grass swing longer

This, along with speeding up some of the courts, is among the things that the ATP/ITF could do to speed up the game, rather than trying to empty the ocean with a thimble in the form of shot clocks and eliminating lets. I'm not sure they'd have to add a week to the grass season, (haven't looked hard enough,) but surely they could spend money to improve the facilities at Halle to meet the requirements of a MS1000. Or get a Larry Ellison-type involved. They have no rich people in Germany? I'd say the MS to turn into a 500 is Cincy. I know folks will complain that I picked a faster HC, but the US has 3 MS. You can't take the only one that Canada has. They won't take the Shanghai one (investment in the Asian fan market,) and if you downgrade Bercy there's no MS on indoor HCs.

Point being, if the powers that be are truly interested in speeding up the game, they could put their monies and imaginations where their mouth is.

 

[Moxie]

I was thinking the same thing. Rafa's game needs some major improvement.

I just wonder why you'd lay it on Moyà? Personally, I think Rafa knows what's lacking in his game on clay atm: confidence, attacking, energy, commitment. Seriously, what does any coach tell Rafael Nadal about his game on clay? I think he knows what he needs to do, he's just not doing it. Maybe he needs a spark. Someone to light a fire under him. Any suggestions? He keeps his inner circle pretty tight. The one person I can think of, off hand, is Agassi, because he comes from the Gil Reyes school of suffering, and they both care a lot about mentoring kids. He was a bad fit with Novak, apparently, but maybe some consulting with Nadal?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I know we've talked about this before, but I'd like to see a grass Masters added to the mix, probably Halle, and then turn one of the hard court Masters into an ATP 500. It is a small change, but it would both make "grass season" more meaningful and also add another faster big title.

I don't think it will happen anytime in the near future. First of all, we should remember that until a few years ago, we did not even have ATP 500 on grass and the entire grass season consisted of two weeks (the week right after RG and the week right before Wimby - neither of which is a good choice for top players).

The first problem would be which one should be 1000 - Halle or Queens. Queens apparently does not have good facilities, but has great tradition. Halle has good facilities. but it was founded only in 1993. So, I think it will be a difficult choice. So, the administrators decided to call it a tie and made both 500s instead of creating 1000.

The second problem is that if there is a grass 1000, then in that week there should not be any other tourney. That would mean ATP would need to find a spot to move the other tourney. The other tourney would neither like to be in the week after RG nor would like to be in the week before Wimby and there is no other spot in the grass season.

So, the only solution would be to extend the grass season by one more week. Since Wimbledon already shifted their tourney dates, they cannot do it again. So, RG should be moved ahead by a week and this would mean they have to cut the clay season by a week, which is actually doable.

But, don't expect anything to happen for the next 10 years at least.