ATP World Tour Finals

[Moxie]

Wrong. The surgery is not needed and they just decided to do it now as his off season has already begun. It's a very immaterial surgery like choosing to remove a mole. It's not affecting his play at all.

I read that, but perhaps it's only missing a comma. It's possible that Nadalfan2013 meant it as you say. S/he follows him pretty closely. In any case, yes, he had an injury, and yes he had an unrelated surgery, albeit arthroscopic, so really just a small "intervention" more like Djokovic had last Feb or whenever.

 

[Moxie]

Look who is talking about stupid quotes.......I’ve just asked about it because when someone has mono first at all he can’t do any effort, just to rest it doesn’t matter how light could be but I’ve never heard to have mono for so long so it has to be something else, another sickness but not just mono

The quotes imply that you don't believe he had mono, or that it ended his career. Honestly, I can't believe you've missed the conversations about it, but Soderling had a terrible case of it. He basically didn't get off the sofa for a year, and every attempt at come-back went nowhere. Then he had a kid and was too long out of the game and over 30. Mario Ancic basically lost his career to it, too. It happens. It's basically as unfortunate as what has happened to Juan Martin, in terms of his injuries, except that JMDP is still playing, at least.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Fed vs. Sasha H2H is 3-2. But, neither of the wins of Sasha count. The first one was in Halle in 2016, about couple of weeks before Roger decided to shut it down for the year. The second one was in the finals of Montreal last year, when Federer had tweaked his back and basically reached the finals due to Aura.

However, as the courts are slow and as Sasha is a steady baseline player, Fed will have work cut out for him.

 

[Moxie]

Fed vs. Sasha H2H is 3-2. But, neither of the wins of Sasha count. The first one was in Halle in 2016, about couple of weeks before Roger decided to shut it down for the year. The second one was in the finals of Montreal last year, when Federer had tweaked his back and basically reached the finals due to Aura.

However, as the courts are slow and as Sasha is a steady baseline player, Fed will have work cut out for him.

Interesting notion that they "don't count," but I see where you're going. I saw last of his match today, and he looked good. After a hard-fought first set v. Cilic, Djokovic looked imperious, I just say. I don't give Anderson much of a hope tomorrow, but Sasha v. Roger could be fun.

 

[Carol]

The quotes imply that you don't believe he had mono, or that it ended his career. Honestly, I can't believe you've missed the conversations about it, but Soderling had a terrible case of it. He basically didn't get off the sofa for a year, and every attempt at come-back went nowhere. Then he had a kid and was too long out of the game and over 30. Mario Ancic basically lost his career to it, too. It happens. It's basically as unfortunate as what has happened to Juan Martin, in terms of his injuries, except that JMDP is still playing, at least.

I believe he had mono but so long? even his wife got pregnant when he was sick (check when they became parents) so I have to give him a lot of credit because I know people which have had that sickness and they needed a lot of rest otherwise that sickness could become worse and worse, at least it's what the doctors say, maybe he din't follow their advise?. And by the way I don't understand why to you and someone else my question is an offense, it was just curiosity like many people have

 

[Carol]

The poor Cilic remind me more and more to Berdych. This WTF has been the less competitive that I remember though last year wasn't much better.
Final: Roger Federer vs Novak Djokovic....come on, who else could play that final?

 

[Moxie]

I believe he had mono but so long? even his wife got pregnant when he was sick (check when they became parents) so I have to give him a lot of credit because I know people which have had that sickness and they needed a lot of rest otherwise that sickness could become worse and worse, at least it's what the doctors say, maybe he din't follow their advise?. And by the way I don't understand why to you and someone else my question is an offense, it was just curiosity like many people have

As I said, the quotation marks imply that you didn't believe he had it. A feature of mono, aside from being extremely tired, is that you have an enlarged spleen, and exercise is discouraged, in case it should burst.

 

[Moxie]

The poor Cilic remind me more and more to Berdych. This WTF has been the less competitive that I remember though last year wasn't much better.
Final: Roger Federer vs Novak Djokovic....come on, who else could play that final?

Not a terrible comparison, imo, Cilic to Berdych. Cilic has had better results, but he hit his stride when top players were a little older. I'd say that's the difference. He's a tier down+, and I'd say Berdy was too, even at his best.

 

[Carol]

As I said, the quotation marks imply that you didn't believe he had it. A feature of mono, aside from being extremely tired, is that you have an enlarged spleen, and exercise is discouraged, in case it should burst.

And why did you think that I don't believe it, because the question mark? and if I wouldn't believe it what you think why I don't?

 

[Moxie]

And why did you think that I don't believe it, because the question mark? and if I wouldn't believe it what you think why I don't?

I said the quotation marks 2 times and so did Front. If you can't figure why your comments appeared to be snide and agenda-driven, then I can help you no further. Don't play the dummy...you do make implications.

 

[El Dude]

Not a terrible comparison, imo, Cilic to Berdych. Cilic has had better results, but he hit his stride when top players were a little older. I'd say that's the difference. He's a tier down+, and I'd say Berdy was too, even at his best.

The Cilic-Berdych comp illustrates how single Slam titles don't really tell us a lot about a player's ability. Tsonga is also comparable, a very dangerous player but never consistent enough and with major flaws that prevented him from being a true elite.

That said, I do view Cilic as half a step better than Berdych/Tsonga. His 2014 US Open performance was just ridiculous - he plowed through everyone to win the title in a way that Berdych/Tsonga have never done. Maybe he's Berdych/Tsonga with flashes of healthy del Potro.

 

[El Dude]

Cilic-Berdych h2h: 6-6
Cilic-Tsonga h2h: 5-2
Cilic-del Potro h2h: 2-10

I was surprised at how unbalanced that matchup is against del Potro.

Cilic vs. Big Four
Federer: 1-9
Nadal: 2-5
Djokovic: 2-17
Murray: 3-12

overall: 8-43

 

[Fiero425]

Cilic-Berdych h2h: 6-6
Cilic-Tsonga h2h: 5-2
Cilic-del Potro h2h: 2-10

I was surprised at how unbalanced that matchup is against del Potro.

Cilic vs. Big Four
Federer: 1-9
Nadal: 2-5
Djokovic: 2-17
Murray: 3-12

overall: 8-43

When Del Po is healthy and on, he's the best player in the world! He's humiliated many players including Rafa at the height of his powers, destroying him 2, 2, & 2 at the USO SF in '09 IIRC! Nole's the only player that seems to have his number for the most part, but the losses have hurt; 2 Olympic performances! :whistle:

 

[Carol]

I said the quotation marks 2 times and so did Front. If you can't figure why your comments appeared to be snide and agenda-driven, then I can help you no further. Don't play the dummy...you do make implications.

Think what ever you want, I don't care at all but it's a lot more dummy to act like you are acting now same as Fiero and Front which always like to make implications. The only thing I say and I believe is that that his mono has last too long

 

[Moxie]

The Cilic-Berdych comp illustrates how single Slam titles don't really tell us a lot about a player's ability. Tsonga is also comparable, a very dangerous player but never consistent enough and with major flaws that prevented him from being a true elite.

That said, I do view Cilic as half a step better than Berdych/Tsonga. His 2014 US Open performance was just ridiculous - he plowed through everyone to win the title in a way that Berdych/Tsonga have never done. Maybe he's Berdych/Tsonga with flashes of healthy del Potro.

Not a bad description. Obviously, all players are a bit different. I do think that Berdych and Tsonga are just older enough makes a difference...it rather sucked being very talented in the heyday of the elite talented. I do think Tsonga was more talented that Berdy...he had a tough window, and a lot of injuries. Berdych, IMO, was just there to hold up the bottom half of the top 10. I hate to speak of them in the past tense, but let's not kid ourselves. It's true that Cilic made a great run to win the USO in '14, but mostly he's a folder. I can't be a fan, and it's not because of the cough drops.

 

[Moxie]

When Del Po is healthy and on, he's the best player in the world! He's humiliated many players including Rafa at the height of his powers, destroying him 2, 2, & 2 at the USO SF in '09 IIRC! Nole's the only player that seems to have his number for the most part, but the losses have hurt; 2 Olympic performances! :whistle:

I think it's an exaggeration to say that Del Potro was ever really the best player in the world, though he was at the USO that he won. But he's surely spoiled a lot of players' big moments, including Novak's. Most of us don't think he'll get back to full world-beating strength, but as long as he's playing and healthy, he'll be dangerous.

 

[Fiero425]

Not a bad description. Obviously, all players are a bit different. I do think that Berdych and Tsonga are just older enough makes a difference...it rather sucked being very talented in the heyday of the elite talented. I do think Tsonga was more talented that Berdy...he had a tough window, and a lot of injuries. Berdych, IMO, was just there to hold up the bottom half of the top 10. I hate to speak of them in the past tense, but let's not kid ourselves. It's true that Cilic made a great run to win the USO in '14, but mostly he's a folder. I can't be a fan, and it's not because of the cough drops.

History and winners of majors and Masters' events would have been totally different if not for Fedalovic who owned them all for the most part! It's unfortunate for very good players like Del Po, Tsonga, Berdych, Ferrer, & many others denied glory but for those 3 players!

 

[Moxie]

History and winners of majors and Masters' events would have been totally different if not for Fedalovic who owned them all for the most part! It's unfortunate for very good players like Del Po, Tsonga, Berdych, Ferrer, & many others denied glory but for those 3 players!

I honestly agree with you that basically all of them would have won a Major if they hadn't played in the time of Fedalovic. They all made the final of a Major. Del Potro has one, but I'd say Murray would have won several more if he'd played in those fallow years that El Dude demarcates. Bad luck for them, but good luck for us, because it has been some really top-drawer tennis, with such excellent players playing at the same time. But all things must come to and end, and we are approaching the end of it. We'll see how far Djokovic rides the last tailwind.

 

[El Dude]

I'd say the player most negatively impacted (in terms of resume) by each of the great three are:

Federer: Andy Roddick...would have had at least 5 majors.
Nadal: Roger Federer...would have, what, 5 more Slams? A few more RGs? He would have possibly had a quadruple Slam! David Ferrer is a candidate, too, with four losses at RG round QF or later and many others. Ferrer could have been the "Count of Clay" if not for Rafa.
Djokovic: Andy Murray...poor, poor Andy.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I'd say the player most negatively impacted (in terms of resume) by each of the great three are:

Federer: Andy Roddick...would have had at least 5 majors.
Nadal: Roger Federer...would have, what, 5 more Slams? A few more RGs? He would have possibly had a quadruple Slam! David Ferrer is a candidate, too, with four losses at RG round QF or later and many others. Ferrer could have been the "Count of Clay" if not for Rafa.
Djokovic: Andy Murray...poor, poor Andy.

I agree on the order, esp the first one. I will never forget the humiliating spanking Roddick received from Fed at the start of their rivalry in Basel 2002. And it would continue throughout whole career.
However, I don't understand why Murray is ."poor, poor Andy" in his H2H vs Joker. Maybe you confused him with Roddick? Murray won all 2 big finals against Joker on grass, also USO 2012, Joker leads leads H2H 25–11 and 11–8 in finals. Especially latter, is not "very negative" impact. I'm sure Joker fans would find a player other than Murray, whom he impacted more, although I cannot think of one ATM.