ATP World Tour Finals

[Ricardo]

I think that it is worth revisiting. I'm not underestimating how much Novak was in his head, and in his game. What I'm telling you is to look forward to the results. There is no guarantee that Novak was going to win that '11 final, had he made it to it. It would have been his first final at RG, and he demonstrated real nerves the next year, when he did get there. He barely played well before it rained, which gave him a benefit. My point is, looking with hindsight, it's harder to imagine than it was at the time that Novak would have won that match. Also, you overestimate what the 2013 SF came down to. Rafa served for that match in the 4th. And Novak lost the 3rd at 1-6. He got tired and discouraged, in the end. He had a chance to win it, but didn't. Which has a lot to do with Rafa knowing how to play on that court, and it suiting his game. That's why I'm saying that it's rather more likely that Rafa would have beaten Djokovic had that played the '11 final. Oh, if only...because a lot of things might have ended differently after that.

He did not play like 2011, in 2012. He made a habit of beating Nadal in 2011, you are delusional if you think Rafa would have just won. Novak played much better tennis going into semis.

 

[Carol]

To each their own........

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...on-Novak-Djokovic-Alexander-Zverev-ATP-Finals

 

[atttomole]

Fed knew the result of Kei (pathetic loss) before he started the last match in the group. So, Fed already knew he & Kandy would advance, no matter the result of their match (a theoretical, pathetic 6-1 6-0 to Kandy would have altered that reality but no nobody believed in such result as long as Fed stayed on his legs), the match was just an exhibition rather than competition. Very weird. But at the same time, it removed any pressure from Fed who came to the court thinking maybe about a baby step toward Connors win record but nothing else.
So, the group final standing is precisely as expected despite an early hiccup by Fed. I expect the other group standing to also follow the suit, Fed will play Zverev in SF & Joker in F. Well, there is quite a small but real chance that he will play Kandy again in F, in which case we would have to conclude that the "field" in these ATP finals was as "weak" as in last year. Anyway, purely from Kandy's emotional point of view, he's already learned Fed scalp at wimby, so he's not motivated as much anymore, but he hasn't had a big win against an "in form" Joker yet, including his close loss in wimby 2015. So, he'll be looking for revenge herein this SF. As a Fed fan, I entertain such possibility, even if I draw anger from Joker's fans, e.g. from Fiero.

Your judgement is based on hindsight. After losing to Nishikori, who was also playing badly in the first match, not many people thought Federer would win the group.

 

[monfed]

Had dull played this WTF he would've had a good chance to win as the balls are bouncing high. Though he may have still lost to fakervic but still a dumb decision to withdraw.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Had dull played this WTF he would've had a good chance to win as the balls are bouncing high. Though he may have still lost to fakervic but still a dumb decision to withdraw.

He's injured and needs a surgery. If he plays he could make things worse and then miss a whole year or retire. There's nothing stupid about his decision, in fact it's smart. Rafa is by far the most intelligent player on tour and one of the most intelligent humans in the world. When you factor in his amazing physical beauty, he's actually the perfect man.

 

[DarthFed]

Some nerve you calling anyone a homer. You're one of the biggest partisans there is, and you LOVE rewriting history. I didn't say that Nadal would necessarily have won it, though I'm fairly sure the bookies would have made him a favorite. I'm saying that you can take it all on board, given what we know in 2018, and realize that it doesn't look as much of a shoe-in as it did in 2011. Why didn't Djokovic beat him in 2012, then? Or '13 or '14? Of course years are different, but if you're going to game a match that was never played, you can see how it's less likely than it looked at the time. If you're honest.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it'd be a done deal, I'm just saying what was the most likely result (in my opinion). Obviously upsets happen, just look at the SF of that tournament. I know you say it would've been his first ever RG final but the Wimbledon final a month later was also his first Wimbledon final. The guy was a freight train that year and Roger was the only one who gave him problems. That's just the way it was.

 

[Moxie]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it'd be a done deal, I'm just saying what was the most likely result (in my opinion). Obviously upsets happen, just look at the SF of that tournament. I know you say it would've been his first ever RG final but the Wimbledon final a month later was also his first Wimbledon final. The guy was a freight train that year and Roger was the only one who gave him problems. That's just the way it was.

Nothing in my above says you said it's a done deal. You have said "very likely" and I've quoted you that way. I only said "less likely than you think." I understand that it was Djokovic's first Wimbledon a month later, but do you not think that might have gone rather differently if Nadal had beaten him in the RG final just before? Not that he couldn't still have won, but the dynamic would have been a bit different. That was a much better chance for Rafa than W. Even freight trains build momentum, and that string of runs might as well have been stopped had Rafa been able to get him in a place where he really had a big advantage. I'm only saying that that's very possible.

 

[Carol]

Had dull played this WTF he would've had a good chance to win as the balls are bouncing high. Though he may have still lost to fakervic but still a dumb decision to withdraw.

Why you like to be such a big troll, nusty a bad loser?
Hey, better if your idol doesn’t make this kind of mistake too often

 

[monfed]

Why you like to be such a big troll, nusty a bad loser?
Hey, better if your idol doesn’t make this kind of mistake too often

If dull did that, he would've withdrawn due to injury.

 

[Moxie]

I am not being able to follow all the conversation, and just managed to watch brief parts of all matches, except yesterday when I could see half of NishikorixThiem and almost full FedererxAnderson. But I have also checked the stats of all matches, and the number of UFE's is huge. You only have a low number of UFE's for players making a very small number of winners. Obviously those two are correlated, but it seems that someone not willing to make mistakes needs to take even less risks than average.

A slower surface (@Moxie, mentioning it is not complaining about it), specially if players were not expecting it, could explain this, but I would guess only in R1. But this kept happening. All bits of matches I saw all players were making more UFE's than usual.

Do you guys agree? And, if yes, why do you think this is happening?

LOL, mrzz! I did hear Annacone talk about this, in the context particularly of Nishikori. He did say the players did seem to be getting used to the surface in R1, but I'm not sure if he ever came up with a good reason for his other 2 performances. BTW, does anyone know if the tennis court at the O2 is a permanent installation, or does it have to be re-installed every year?

 

[tennisville]

With Zverev winning, tonight will be a dead rubber.

I think tomorrow might be the last time we are ever going to see Roger in this event. I will try and catch that

 

[monfed]

He's injured and needs a surgery. If he plays he could make things worse and then miss a whole year or retire. There's nothing stupid about his decision, in fact it's smart. Rafa is by far the most intelligent player on tour and one of the most intelligent humans in the world. When you factor in his amazing physical beauty, he's actually the perfect man.

Yes Nadal will now just play the clay season in 2019. Very cunning guy.

 

[Moxie]

Wow I never thought you'll praise Soderling. Hats off for going there.

I've nothing against Robin Soderling. I just don't crush on him as hard as @Front242. I have always said how well he played v. Nadal in that match.

 

[Fiero425]

I've nothing against Robin Soderling. I just don't crush on him as hard as @Front242. I have always said how well he played v. Nadal in that match.

.....and at the YEC later that year in '09's RR! I didn't see it, but I believe Robin owns at least one Masters from '10! I still say Roger should buy him something nice; like maybe a house back in Sweden! He helped Federer so much by besting Nadal who owned him at RG! :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

.....and at the YEC later that year in '09's RR! I didn't see it, but I believe Robin owns at least one Masters from '10! I still say Roger should buy him something nice; like maybe a house back in Sweden! He helped Federer so much by besting Nadal who owned him at RG! :whistle:

Beating Nadal on indoor hards isn't really the same as beating him at RG, though, is it?

 

[Fiero425]

Beating Nadal on indoor hards isn't really the same as beating him at RG, though, is it?

Maybe true, but he did anyway! Not many have beaten Nadal anywhere which is why it's a big deal regardless if it's on HC or grass for that matter! I'm no fan, so I'm not lauding the guy, but his fans can't have it both ways saying he's unbeatable, but at the same time making excuses for him when he does drop a match! :whistle: :cuckoo:

 

[atttomole]

With Zverev winning, tonight will be a dead rubber.

I think tomorrow might be the last time we are ever going to see Roger in this event. I will try and catch that

Do not worry. Federer will linger for at least another 3 years.

 

[Fiero425]

Do not worry. Federer will linger for at least another 3 years.

Like MOLD or a fungus! :whistle:

 

[atttomole]

Like MOLD or a fungus! :whistle:

I don’t think so. As a tennis fan, you know that Federer is the greatest/best/most talented player to ever play the game. I think he can win majors at 40 years of age. He is still number 3 as we speak, and he is in the semifinals of the WTF, at the age of 37. Find me a tennis player, past or present, that has a flair for tennis like Federer.

 

[Fiero425]

I don’t think so. As a tennis fan, you know that Federer is the greatest/best/most talented player to ever play the game. I think he can win majors at 40 years of age. He is still number 3 as we speak, and he is in the semifinals of the WTF, at the age of 37. Find me a tennis player, past or present, that has a flair for tennis like Federer.

I've been hearing it was Jimmy Connors since the 80's! He's been lauded as the most competitive "competitor in the history of sports for decades! I never cared for his showmanship, preferring the genteel nature and class of players like Borg, Edberg, Laver, and so many more who were just as successful if not more! :whistle: