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Carol

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LOL.

i think they were semi-consciously pushing the general consensus about roger's tennis and ''aura" as that of being some angelic figure in tennis history.

u know what i mean -- all the commentary, articles -- one in NY TIMES even once had an essay as if roger was some kind of RELIGIOUS figure...

AND IT'S NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND SINCE IT COULD BE Associated with his remarkable EASE IN THE WAY HE played his shots -- the elegance and fluidity and all that which of ourse have made him justly famous.

so -- by the time his highest maturity and lgory came around - what ELSE was there to promote beyond his ''beautiful tennis" --?
he was already accepted and celebrated as ''the greatest thing that happened to tennis" ..glorifed for his ''natural way in the limelight"...while most others were characterized as ''flawed'' in one way or another.

what's left to SHOW?

WHY - OF CORUSE --

SOMETHING beyond -- WHY NOT COME IN AS ALSO THE perfect figure on

good taste?


make ROYAL WIMBLEDON even more ROYAL by the 'GRACE OF ROGER?"

bring in the ROBES...maybe ermine, sole lining even...how about a REAL crown? and look -- LONG WHITE PANTS....

and not a blade of grass will be bent where roger FLOATS....blessed roger HAS COME ....to SHINE his blinding glory on all until every HEATHEN is sent away...

Sincerely I don't have anything against Roger, on the contrary he seems to be a good person and one of the best players of the tennis history in spite about his own ego but I've never understood so much admiration and absurd worship toward a player. And about his 'elegance, grace, aura, angelic, religion and even more absurd to say the greatest thing that has happened in tennis sounds more than ridiculous as his fans thinking that way and which probably have made him to feel over the clouds under such nonsense :facepalm: :scratch:
 

Mastoor

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Sincerely I don't have anything against Roger, on the contrary he seems to be a good person and one of the best players of the tennis history in spite about his own ego but I've never understood so much admiration and absurd worship toward a player. And about his 'elegance, grace, aura, angelic, religion and even more absurd to say the greatest thing that has happened in tennis sounds more than ridiculous as his fans thinking that way and which probably have made him to feel over the clouds under such nonsense :facepalm: :scratch:


That thing they call aura is not nonsense. It is when other players don't believe they can beat a dominant player. Nadal and No1e also had those periods and sometimes period overlap. For the rest I agree.
 
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Carol

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That thing they call aura is not nonsense. It is when other players don't believe they can beat a dominant player. Nadal and No1e also had those periods and sometimes period overlap. For the rest I agree.
I'm referring about 'aura' because his fans always have thought that he was 'untouchable' in all the ways while they have had (and have) the guts to underestimate the others players and more to the one who has given him a tough time when he was still playing his best
 
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britbox

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4-Milos Raonic (Canada) beat 8-Dominic Thiem (Austria) 7-6(5) 6-3
2-Novak Djokovic (Serbia) beat 9-David Goffin (Belgium) 6-1 6-2

 

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Sincerely I don't have anything against Roger, on the contrary he seems to be a good person and one of the best players of the tennis history in spite about his own ego but I've never understood so much admiration and absurd worship toward a player. And about his 'elegance, grace, aura, angelic, religion and even more absurd to say the greatest thing that has happened in tennis sounds more than ridiculous as his fans thinking that way and which probably have made him to feel over the clouds under such nonsense :facepalm: :scratch:

That's a perfect summation. Worshipping another human being is simply off limits for me. I would have put a stop to that nonsense if it was me. I don't find that flattering, I find it sick.
 

teddytennisfan

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Yes, he would like to practice bdtl, but most importantly he didn't spend much energy in this match.


IT'S also not just the actual tennis technique itself -- which of course is something that requires constant maintenance (isn't this in life?) --

but if there is indeed something about his shoulder - then Nole will want to keep paying attention to that every second he swings...and as much as possible find the precise balance in execution to get the proper result ion any point while simultaneously constantly watching for the 'feel" in his own body.

this is IF there is anything lingering there. after all -- this is , young as he is in LIFE -- IN tennis 30 years old IS A LONG time swinging those arms -- doesn't matter if it's roger, or anyone else.

and things have a way of ''happening at the same time" in one's life...for ME that's the main thought when i am watching him at the point. the year is almost done - thhankfully for ALL of them - so they can get a well-earned REST...

BUT IT WOULD be nice if the players and of course nole get through this LAST FEW DAYS without undesired ticks in their bodies. and be rested, then get ready for the coming year.

one thing though -- after the match -- he was MORE smiles, i thought. and that was good to see.
 

teddytennisfan

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That's a perfect summation. Worshipping another human being is simply off limits for me. I would have put a stop to that nonsense if it was me. I don't find that flattering, I find it sick.


for me -- roger has been (or was, in his heydeys) -- quite exemplary actually.

the main point in his personality is that -- with all the adulation , whether because of it or he already actually believed it -- he didn't take VERY WELL at all in many years to the reality that -- upon the entrance of RAFA -and after ''learning" how to deal with that or trying to overturn rafa's ever-incrfeasing dominance over roger -- the entrance of NOLE --

ROGER DID NOT take very well to the idea that he actually HAD RIVALS tha twere NOT frightened of HIM ..AND THAT despite the clear beauty and greatness of his game -- THESE were players who'se ONLY THOUGHT was to CHALLENGE him AND actually succeed in growing ABOVE the abilities of OTHERS to show THAT kind of challenge...

so that it was no longer quite the ''ROGER and everyone else"

this -- imo -- elicited from roger those instances of ''sly'' putdowns towards rafa and nole - each in their turns -- MIXED IN under roger's ''congratulations" ....

he'd say 3 sentences of very nice appreciative remarks about their success -- and THE insert a little ''something" - either about HIMSELF or a sly , underhanded little phrase negating the ''appreciation" .

an exmple would be:

when rafa began showing that his first few wins -- were NOT FLUKES -- roger would make statements such as "he's great etc.etc...on clay"..

when rafa began beating him on OTHER courts -- such as hardcourts -- it's either ''it's because he's a leftie" as if THIS was an unfair advantage (even if roger beat plenty of lefties and made mincemeat of them) (ivan ljubicic certainly helped out on that "the reason rafa beats roger is because rafa is a leftie " -- so being that these TWO were known CLOSE friends -- one can only imagine in their drinking chats what they were TALKING ABOUT concerning that ''spaniard")...

when rafa came around beating roger so many times by some point - repeatedly in the FO -- and then FOLLOWING THAT UP WITH WIBMLEDON on the 3rd try on grass...

the roger ''putdowns|" about rafa RIGHT AFTER FO -- amounted to something like this:

"i have the weapons to dismantle him -- because..u know...he's got that one-dimensional game"...

and then LOSE in the 3rd meeting in wimbledon...

soon to be followed the year after with that harrowing loss in AUSTRALIA finals where roger cried...


so - interspersed with the ''ultimate gentleman" were those little - almost girlish -- snaps at rivals -- rafa and a bit later nole -- who didn't play or fight or act LIKE the others...

which even
JIMMY CONNORS quipped :"one reason i like rafa is because he doesn't act like these others who CAME WITH ROGER (roger's generation) - he steps up to the plate".

and THAT -- for rafa and a bit later nole -- were what i think were VERY hard for roger to accept.

players who actually went on court INTENDING to BEAT HIM. NOT play ''second fiddle" or be some kind of FOIL in what mostly amounted to a ''solo performance" by roger. which audiences just loved....

because as rafa would say "we all love roger's game, no? because it's so beautiful, no? but i have to FIGHT TOO, NO?"?

or nole would a few years more later would say" I think THERE IS ROOM UP THERE WITH BOTH OF THEM -- AND I WANT TO BE THERE TOO -- and be a number one someday too,,,i want to show that i ALSO have some quality".

roger gained - correctly based on his great game -- great respect and adulation..

but he HAD to LEARN to Actually GIVE THAT respect TO others -- namely -- rivals on the court whose purpose AND ABILITY was to DEFEAT HIM.

NAMELY -- RAFAEL NADAL, AND NOVAK DJOKOVIC.
 
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for me -- roger has been (or was, in his heydeys) -- quite exemplary actually.

the main point in his personality is that -- with all the adulation , whether because of it or he already actually believed it -- he didn't take VERY WELL at all in many years to the reality that -- upon the entrance of RAFA -and after ''learning" how to deal with that or trying to overturn rafa's ever-incrfeasing dominance over roger -- the entrance of NOLE --

ROGER DID NOT take very well to the idea that he actually HAD RIVALS tha twere NOT frightened of HIM ..AND THAT despite the clear beauty and greatness of his game -- THESE were players who'se ONLY THOUGHT was to CHALLENGE him AND actually succeed in growing ABOVE the abilities of OTHERS to show THAT kind of challenge...

so that it was no longer quite the ''ROGER and everyone else"

this -- imo -- elicited from roger those instances of ''sly'' putdowns towards rafa and nole - each in their turns -- MIXED IN under roger's ''congratulations" ....

he'd say 3 sentences of very nice appreciative remarks about their success -- and THE insert a little ''something" - either about HIMSELF or a sly , underhanded little phrase negating the ''appreciation" .

an exmple would be:

when rafa began showing that his first few wins -- were NOT FLUKES -- roger would make statements such as "he's great etc.etc...on clay"..

when rafa began beating him on OTHER courts -- such as hardcourts -- it's either ''it's because he's a leftie" as if THIS was an unfair advantage (even if roger beat plenty of lefties and made mincemeat of them) (ivan ljubicic certainly helped out on that "the reason rafa beats roger is because rafa is a leftie " -- so being that these TWO were known CLOSE friends -- one can only imagine in their drinking chats what they were TALKING ABOUT concerning that ''spaniard")...

when rafa came around beating roger so many times by some point - repeatedly in the FO -- and then FOLLOWING THAT UP WITH WIBMLEDON on the 3rd try on grass...

the roger ''putdowns|" about rafa RIGHT AFTER FO -- amounted to something like this:

"i have the weapons to dismantle him -- because..u know...he's got that one-dimensional game"...

and then LOSE in the 3rd meeting in wimbledon...

soon to be followed the year after with that harrowing loss in AUSTRALIA finals where roger cried...


so - interspersed with the ''ultimate gentleman" were those little - almost girlish -- snaps at rivals -- rafa and a bit later nole -- who didn't play or fight or act LIKE the others...

which even
JIMMY CONNORS quipped :"one reason i like rafa is because he doesn't act like these others who CAME WITH ROGER (roger's generation) - he steps up to the plate".

and THAT -- for rafa and a bit later nole -- were what i think were VERY hard for roger to accept.

players who actually went on court INTENDING to BEAT HIM. NOT play ''second fiddle" or be some kind of FOIL in what mostly amounted to a ''solo performance" by roger. which audiences just loved....

because as rafa would say "we all love roger's game, no? because it's so beautiful, no? but i have to FIGHT TOO, NO?"?

or nole would a few years more later would say" I think THERE IS ROOM UP THERE WITH BOTH OF THEM -- AND I WANT TO BE THERE TOO -- and be a number one someday too,,,i want to show that i ALSO have some quality".

roger gained - correctly based on his great game -- great respect and adulation..

but he HAD to LEARN to Actually GIVE THAT respect TO others -- namely -- rivals on the court whose purpose AND ABILITY was to DEFEAT HIM.

NAMELY -- RAFAEL NADAL, AND NOVAK DJOKOVIC.

I've never spoken on Roger's game. I was laughing at the adulation factor in your post, because it was spot on in my opinion. I don't think favorably or unfavorably about Roger's game, or anyone else's. He's just never been someone I was interested in. That doesn't mean that I think his game stinks. He just never appealed to me in any way. Who's to say why some people like a certain player more than another? Sometimes you just like to watch someone on court and some people you don't like to watch. People have signs in the crowd for everybody. I think that's a good thing. What I don't understand is the insistence that everyone likes the same thing; that's not reasonable to me.
 

Ricardo

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for me -- roger has been (or was, in his heydeys) -- quite exemplary actually.

the main point in his personality is that -- with all the adulation , whether because of it or he already actually believed it -- he didn't take VERY WELL at all in many years to the reality that -- upon the entrance of RAFA -and after ''learning" how to deal with that or trying to overturn rafa's ever-incrfeasing dominance over roger -- the entrance of NOLE --

ROGER DID NOT take very well to the idea that he actually HAD RIVALS tha twere NOT frightened of HIM ..AND THAT despite the clear beauty and greatness of his game -- THESE were players who'se ONLY THOUGHT was to CHALLENGE him AND actually succeed in growing ABOVE the abilities of OTHERS to show THAT kind of challenge...

so that it was no longer quite the ''ROGER and everyone else"

this -- imo -- elicited from roger those instances of ''sly'' putdowns towards rafa and nole - each in their turns -- MIXED IN under roger's ''congratulations" ....

he'd say 3 sentences of very nice appreciative remarks about their success -- and THE insert a little ''something" - either about HIMSELF or a sly , underhanded little phrase negating the ''appreciation" .

an exmple would be:

when rafa began showing that his first few wins -- were NOT FLUKES -- roger would make statements such as "he's great etc.etc...on clay"..

when rafa began beating him on OTHER courts -- such as hardcourts -- it's either ''it's because he's a leftie" as if THIS was an unfair advantage (even if roger beat plenty of lefties and made mincemeat of them) (ivan ljubicic certainly helped out on that "the reason rafa beats roger is because rafa is a leftie " -- so being that these TWO were known CLOSE friends -- one can only imagine in their drinking chats what they were TALKING ABOUT concerning that ''spaniard")...

when rafa came around beating roger so many times by some point - repeatedly in the FO -- and then FOLLOWING THAT UP WITH WIBMLEDON on the 3rd try on grass...

the roger ''putdowns|" about rafa RIGHT AFTER FO -- amounted to something like this:

"i have the weapons to dismantle him -- because..u know...he's got that one-dimensional game"...

and then LOSE in the 3rd meeting in wimbledon...

soon to be followed the year after with that harrowing loss in AUSTRALIA finals where roger cried...


so - interspersed with the ''ultimate gentleman" were those little - almost girlish -- snaps at rivals -- rafa and a bit later nole -- who didn't play or fight or act LIKE the others...

which even
JIMMY CONNORS quipped :"one reason i like rafa is because he doesn't act like these others who CAME WITH ROGER (roger's generation) - he steps up to the plate".

and THAT -- for rafa and a bit later nole -- were what i think were VERY hard for roger to accept.

players who actually went on court INTENDING to BEAT HIM. NOT play ''second fiddle" or be some kind of FOIL in what mostly amounted to a ''solo performance" by roger. which audiences just loved....

because as rafa would say "we all love roger's game, no? because it's so beautiful, no? but i have to FIGHT TOO, NO?"?

or nole would a few years more later would say" I think THERE IS ROOM UP THERE WITH BOTH OF THEM -- AND I WANT TO BE THERE TOO -- and be a number one someday too,,,i want to show that i ALSO have some quality".

roger gained - correctly based on his great game -- great respect and adulation..

but he HAD to LEARN to Actually GIVE THAT respect TO others -- namely -- rivals on the court whose purpose AND ABILITY was to DEFEAT HIM.

NAMELY -- RAFAEL NADAL, AND NOVAK DJOKOVIC.

frankly i remember in his heydays, you were always on and on about that Roger is just another 'good' player, who is nothing more than that, with an elegant and beautiful game that other players just bow down at him.

why take a 180 degree turn here? i never buy into this kind of talk, and who can believe that? if elegance and fluidity was so important winning your matches, Dimitrov has that in spades......yet his GS count is 0, instead of 17.

Before you repeat yet again how Roger put down other players, how about you stop your put downs? a lot of it is delusional really. Yes Roger had 'aura' 10 years ago, where players felt like they couldn't beat him, but that's nothing out of ordinary for dominant players. Rafa and Djoker all have their moments of that aura, because they have been on top of the game at certain times and clearly players looked like they were going to lose before stepping on to the court. Remember what Kafelnikov said after he won AO in absence of Sampras, he actually thanked Sampras for not playing and 'allowed' him the chance to win the title.

I like Roger's game but am not his fan and i do find it disgusting that fans would 'worship' a player, just that your bias is too much. It's against facts, admit that?
 

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Just a few facts for you, if Roger was just 'good', then how come he is the only player who actually beat Novak in 2011 slam matches when Novak himself was having the form of his life......being undefeated till then, and imo he was higher level than 2015. Roger was also a point away and serving for it against Novak at US 2011, so the 3 times they met that year he won one and was a point away from another.

How would a merely good player do that? considering Novak was playing his best level ever? considering also that Novak made a mincemeat of Rafa in every match then, while Rafa just came off his own career year in 2010 himself.

and in 2015 Roger was the only player who had 3 wins against Novak, who was having his second career year. Are you saying Novak was no good? apparently a 'good' player well into his 30s should struggle to win games.....let alone sets, and matches, against one of the very best in history, who was in top form.

So many things in your posts don't add up, ever wonder why?
 

Ricardo

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for me -- roger has been (or was, in his heydeys) -- quite exemplary actually.

the main point in his personality is that -- with all the adulation , whether because of it or he already actually believed it -- he didn't take VERY WELL at all in many years to the reality that -- upon the entrance of RAFA -and after ''learning" how to deal with that or trying to overturn rafa's ever-incrfeasing dominance over roger -- the entrance of NOLE --

ROGER DID NOT take very well to the idea that he actually HAD RIVALS tha twere NOT frightened of HIM ..AND THAT despite the clear beauty and greatness of his game -- THESE were players who'se ONLY THOUGHT was to CHALLENGE him AND actually succeed in growing ABOVE the abilities of OTHERS to show THAT kind of challenge...

so that it was no longer quite the ''ROGER and everyone else"

this -- imo -- elicited from roger those instances of ''sly'' putdowns towards rafa and nole - each in their turns -- MIXED IN under roger's ''congratulations" ....

he'd say 3 sentences of very nice appreciative remarks about their success -- and THE insert a little ''something" - either about HIMSELF or a sly , underhanded little phrase negating the ''appreciation" .

an exmple would be:

when rafa began showing that his first few wins -- were NOT FLUKES -- roger would make statements such as "he's great etc.etc...on clay"..

when rafa began beating him on OTHER courts -- such as hardcourts -- it's either ''it's because he's a leftie" as if THIS was an unfair advantage (even if roger beat plenty of lefties and made mincemeat of them) (ivan ljubicic certainly helped out on that "the reason rafa beats roger is because rafa is a leftie " -- so being that these TWO were known CLOSE friends -- one can only imagine in their drinking chats what they were TALKING ABOUT concerning that ''spaniard")...

when rafa came around beating roger so many times by some point - repeatedly in the FO -- and then FOLLOWING THAT UP WITH WIBMLEDON on the 3rd try on grass...

the roger ''putdowns|" about rafa RIGHT AFTER FO -- amounted to something like this:

"i have the weapons to dismantle him -- because..u know...he's got that one-dimensional game"...

and then LOSE in the 3rd meeting in wimbledon...

soon to be followed the year after with that harrowing loss in AUSTRALIA finals where roger cried...


so - interspersed with the ''ultimate gentleman" were those little - almost girlish -- snaps at rivals -- rafa and a bit later nole -- who didn't play or fight or act LIKE the others...

which even
JIMMY CONNORS quipped :"one reason i like rafa is because he doesn't act like these others who CAME WITH ROGER (roger's generation) - he steps up to the plate".

and THAT -- for rafa and a bit later nole -- were what i think were VERY hard for roger to accept.

players who actually went on court INTENDING to BEAT HIM. NOT play ''second fiddle" or be some kind of FOIL in what mostly amounted to a ''solo performance" by roger. which audiences just loved....

because as rafa would say "we all love roger's game, no? because it's so beautiful, no? but i have to FIGHT TOO, NO?"?

or nole would a few years more later would say" I think THERE IS ROOM UP THERE WITH BOTH OF THEM -- AND I WANT TO BE THERE TOO -- and be a number one someday too,,,i want to show that i ALSO have some quality".

roger gained - correctly based on his great game -- great respect and adulation..

but he HAD to LEARN to Actually GIVE THAT respect TO others -- namely -- rivals on the court whose purpose AND ABILITY was to DEFEAT HIM.

NAMELY -- RAFAEL NADAL, AND NOVAK DJOKOVIC.

Toni Nadal himself said that Rafa's big advantage over Roger was that high bouncing top spin forehand to his backhand, so your word vs Toni's. Now nobody in his right mind would say it's an 'unfair' advantage, since professionals are expected to shape their game and style to win the maximum number of matches possible, but don't pretend that the lefti-ness had nothing to do with it.

If you ever sit down and count the strokes, how many points were won because Rafa would top spin that fh to Fed's single bh and cause an error or short ball? ever looked at the number of points won directly and indirectly in that manner? it is numbers game really. I'd say Rafa wins not because he is just strong mentally (it's part of), but the technical match ups matter a hell of a lot.

Like Toni said, why change a winning formula if it keeps paying dividends?

Spot on! i think he knows what he is talking about, he is the one who plotted this all those years since Rafa was just a toddler....knowing that by employing the lefti-ness with an incredible engine behind it (Rafa's physical prowess and of course he is simply born a great talent), he would be in that advantageous position against right handers.

Do you guys know how good Rafa's right hand tennis is? have a good look on youtube, it is almost as good as his left, and consider that he doesn't even practice much with his right hand. He actually looked that he had better serve and more power with his right hand, not as good slice but other aspects pretty equal, to me that's simply incredible.

I think if you combine the ball striking of both sides (right and left), Rafa is the best EVER by miles......Fed and Novak don't even come close, nobody does.
 

Mary

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That's a perfect summation. Worshipping another human being is simply off limits for me. I would have put a stop to that nonsense if it was me. I don't find that flattering, I find it sick.
Total agreement. It's unhealthy for the worshipped asnd the worshippers. Federer is a great tennis player but the adulation he gets does him and the game no favours.
 

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7-Marin Cilic (Croatia) beat 5-Kei Nishikori (Japan) 3-6 6-2 6-3
1-Andy Murray (Britain) beat 3-Stanislas Wawrinka (Switzerland) 6-4 6-2