ATP Injury/ fitness thread

[Moxie]

I haven't read anything after this post and I know it was a couple weeks ago, but I remember one baseball analyst once describing health as a skill; in other words, according to that view, the above is a false dichotomy. Health isn't (only) luck or a "blessing," it is something a player can--at least to some degree--develop and cultivate.

Of course I think it is both. Sometimes players are just unlucky or have a problematic body type, or a play style that is more conducive to injury. I don't want to blame Delpo for his woes. But I do think that when you look at someone like Roger, it isn't only or even mainly luck or being blessed. He has been very smart about his body, and he has developed the ability to stay healthy like a skill.

In other words, I don't think it is all that accurate to say that Rafa has been less lucky than Roger. Maybe that is partially true, but it could also be said that Roger has been better at staying healthy.

I'm pretty sure I said that both things are true, of both, because I believe that. Rafa is tough on his body. Roger's style is less-so. Rafa trains to prevent injury, but his style is his style. Roger has, however, also been lucky. He could have had a worse bout of mono than he did. He could have stepped back on a tennis ball like Tommy Haas (I think?) or had a shoulder that didn't take to so many serves. My point, which @mrzz very eloquently backed up, is that I object to moralizing about Rafa's injuries, and holding Roger up as a complete beacon. They're professional athletes, and some DNA- and otherwise luck is involved.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

He could have stepped back on a tennis ball like Tommy Haas (I think?)

or he could have been hit by a speeding car and lost an arm. How luck Roger is! :scratch:

 

[Moxie]

or he could have been hit by a speeding car and lost an arm. How luck Roger is! :scratch:

Or you could have been, but like the point of my comment, it missed you.

 

[isabelle]

I just read that he has a small fracture in his ankle from the Cuevas match. Says he "hopes" to be back for the clay season.

oh ! sad for him, I wish him a fast recovery

 

[Federberg]

Guess I should put this here as well. Following the Delpo - Raonic match, Leif Shiras was just saying there are locker room rumours that Roger has a lower back problem. Really don't want to hear it. Get out there and win the whole thing. If he has a problem then, close it down until the grass court season after this. But first.. get 98!

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Guess I should put this here as well. Following the Delpo - Raonic match, Leif Shiras was just saying there are locker room rumours that Roger has a lower back problem. Really don't want to hear it. Get out there and win the whole thing. If he has a problem then, close it down until the grass court season after this. But first.. get 98!

 

[10isfan]

Is Fed hurt? Healthy coming into the match doesn’t say much about his current state.

 

[Moxie]

Is Fed hurt? Healthy coming into the match doesn’t say much about his current state.

I don't think so. I'm going with it was an especially early start for him and, at 36, he didn't wake up ready. Coric, to his credit, was white-hot. But Roger righted the ship. If it were a back issue, I don't think he'd have stayed that long on court and risked it.

 

[mrzz]

He was running a lot. Serving numbers were not good, but nothing visible there IMO. I do not think there is anything close to injury. This sounds like preemptive excuse making and it is becoming boring.

 

[Moxie]

He was running a lot. Serving numbers were not good, but nothing visible there IMO. I do not think there is anything close to injury. This sounds like preemptive excuse making and it is becoming boring.

According to Tennis Channel, Fabrice Santoro was one of those who said it, so it's not just fans looking for excuses. I think it's a non-thing, but the serve numbers were not good, as you say.

 

[DarthFed]

Or you could have been, but like the point of my comment, it missed you.

I think his point is fair enough. Federer is lucky because he hasn't got hurt stepping on a ball? Or he was lucky that his mono wasn't worse. I guess Rafa was also lucky his appendicitis wasn't more serious huh? And we could say Nadal is lucky he hasn't been hit by an asteroid.

I said on this or a different thread that Roger has had his fair share of injuries and

 

[Moxie]

...and? I'm waiting to respond.

 

[Moxie]

I think his point is fair enough. Federer is lucky because he hasn't got hurt stepping on a ball? Or he was lucky that his mono wasn't worse. I guess Rafa was also lucky his appendicitis wasn't more serious huh? And we could say Nadal is lucky he hasn't been hit by an asteroid.

I said on this or a different thread that Roger has had his fair share of injuries and

I guess you're finished. Roger really hasn't had his "fair share" of injuries. Looking at all of the rest of the field, of his generation, on through the youngsters, how can you not say that he's been a lot more healthy that most of the rest, by far? At 36. Off the top of my head, I think that Feliciano Lopez has also been pretty blessed with good health. Otherwise, a lot of their contemporaries are retired. Look, I get that injuries don't get doled out fairly. But it's hard to say that Roger has had that many.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I guess you're finished. Roger really hasn't had his "fair share" of injuries. Looking at all of the rest of the field, of his generation, on through the youngsters, how can you not say that he's been a lot more healthy that most of the rest, by far? At 36. Off the top of my head, I think that Feliciano Lopez has also been pretty blessed with good health. Otherwise, a lot of their contemporaries are retired. Look, I get that injuries don't get doled out fairly. But it's hard to say that Roger has had that many.

But, saying Fed was lucky that he did not get hurt stepping on a ball is ridiculous. Yes, it happened to Tommy Haas. It was a weird injury that rarely happens. I don't know how your mind works.

 

[Moxie]

But, saying Fed was lucky that he did not get hurt stepping on a ball is ridiculous. Yes, it happened to Tommy Haas. It was a weird injury that rarely happens. I don't know how your mind works.

Sorry if it got to the ridiculous, but you do get the basic notion, right? Tell me honestly: has Federer been healthier than most or not, in your opinion?

 

[Federberg]

Sorry if it got to the ridiculous, but you do get the basic notion, right? Tell me honestly: has Federer been healthier than most or not, in your opinion?

We can’t know what injuries he’s gone on court with. All we can say is that he’s been quieter than most and if he doesn’t feel he can compete he doesn’t. So the only conclusion we can form is that he’s smarter than most

 

[DarthFed]

...and? I'm waiting to respond.

I don't even remember what happened to the rest

But I listed his injuries in an earlier thread. If we are going to talk about Nadal's chronic knee issue always being a problem then we can bring up Federer's back. He also missed most of 2016 with a knee injury, missed a good chunk of 2005 Fall season with an ankle sprain. What is your definition of "normal amount" of injuries. Is it just that he should've missed 10 more slams or something? I think that crosses into wishful thinking on your part. And no matter what you say it's simply wrong to diminish the effects that style of play has on their chances of getting hurt. Why do you think everyone thought Nadal would have a relatively short career? Easy, they watched him play...

 

[mrzz]

According to Tennis Channel, Fabrice Santoro was one of those who said it, so it's not just fans looking for excuses. I think it's a non-thing, but the serve numbers were not good, as you say.

Well, commentators can also be fans... but the point is that those guys' job is to praise the big names (and "protect" them), so in the end I guess they will make a lot of excuses too. As you know, hard to find objective people around. But I never heard Santoro commenting so I can say nothing about him in particular.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sorry if it got to the ridiculous, but you do get the basic notion, right? Tell me honestly: has Federer been healthier than most or not, in your opinion?

No. Fed is quite normal. If you want to claim that Rafa has been more injury prone than an average player, I think I will agree with that.
However, that does not make Fed "lucky" with respect to health and injuries.

 

[Front242]

No. Fed is quite normal. If you want to claim that Rafa has been more injury prone than an average player, I think I will agree with that.
However, that does not make Fed "lucky" with respect to health and injuries.

Exactly. I've always been a firm believer that you make your own luck. You play safe and intelligent tennis, eg. fast points and short matches, you reap what you sow, less injuries. That's not luck, it's having more grey matter than someone doing the opposite.