2024 Roland Garros Final: Alcaraz vs Zverev

[Moxie]

yes...he was making a lot of errors

Everyone, (like McEnroe, and such,) seems to think he hasn't hit his peak, which is reasonable, at barely 21. Plus, he has some maturing in his game and strategy to do. Scary thought, if you're everyone else in the field.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

yes...he was making a lot of errors

He was, though he has the ability to peak at the right times in the match, which got him over the line and win the match

 

[tossip]

Everyone, (like McEnroe, and such,) seems to think he hasn't hit his peak, which is reasonable, at barely 21. Plus, he has some maturing in his game and strategy to do. Scary thought, if you're everyone else in the field.

he has to tone down the constantly looking at the players box,and fist pumping after every point.

 

[Moxie]

he has to tone down the constantly looking at the players box,and fist pumping after every point.

I don't have a problem with enthusiasm when you win a point. And he does celebrate his spectacular ones. Why not? And let's face it...they all do it. The reliance on the box...I think they should wean him off of it. But a lot of them do that, too. I listen to what Juan Carlos says to him in Spanish, and can't catch all of it. But most of it is simply encouragement.

 

[Fiero425]

I don't have a problem with enthusiasm when you win a point. And he does celebrate his spectacular ones. Why not? And let's face it...they all do it. The reliance on the box...I think they should wean him off of it. But a lot of them do that, too. I listen to what Juan Carlos says to him in Spanish, and can't catch all of it. But most of it is simply encouragement.

You're kidding? Today's players will pump their fists in exultation on a double fault; even Rafa! Everything works them up into a lather!

 

[Moxie]

You're kidding? Today's players will pump their fists in exultation on a double fault; even Rafa! Everything works them up into a lather!

Are you trying to pretend this just got invented? And I challenge you to find me a video of someone celebrating a DF. You champion a guy who whips up the crowd, (which Rafa does NOT do,) taps at his ear, rips his shirt off and roars like a banshee. Spare me the clutching of your pearls.

 

[kskate2]

I only see one vote for Zverev. To win in 5. Is that you? I see 4 votes for Alcaraz in 4, and 1 for Alcaraz in 5. I think you're right that Front is picking Zverev, even if he didn't vote. I don't know if K voted, but she seemed to have tipped her hand, above.

So I was right again, eh?

 

[kskate2]

Gonna change my pick..samr old Zed who will find away to snatch defeat from a victory even when he can see the finish line .the longer the match I would favor Carlos..

You changed your pick after you saw how I voted? I get it, I would want to side w/ a winna too. But seriously, you should have stood by your original pick. He didn't play bad, just couldn't capitalize on all the opportunities he had.

 

[kskate2]

Novak had a stomach virus when he was in Rome

I thought he was concussed from a water bottle.

 

[kskate2]

I hope to see a Nadal Alcaraz match on clay.

They already played that in Madrid 2022

 

[El Dude]

Everyone, (like McEnroe, and such,) seems to think he hasn't hit his peak, which is reasonable, at barely 21. Plus, he has some maturing in his game and strategy to do. Scary thought, if you're everyone else in the field.

Very few players reach their peak at 21. Some do, but most greats further fine-tuned their skills and peaked a few years later. Or consider the best seasons of every ATG (or near-ATG) of the Open Era, with their age at the mid-point of the season (before Wimbledon):

Nastase: 1973 (26)
Vilas: 1977 (24)
Connors: 1974 (21)
Borg: 1980 (24)
McEnroe: 1984 (25)
Lendl: 1986 (26)
Wilander: 1988 (23)
Edberg: 1990 (24)
Becker: 1989 (21)
Agassi: 1999 (29)
Courier: 1992 (22)
Sampras: 1994 (22)
Federer: 2006 (24)
Nadal: 2010 (24) or 2013 (27)
Murray: 2016 (29)
Djokovic: 2015 (28)

So really only Connors and Becker had their best year at 21, both turning 22 later in the year. Both had great seasons after, but they didn't get better after that. Most greats get better until about 24 or so.

Remember when the concern was that Alcaraz could be another Hewitt, peak in his early 20s? In terms of accomplishments at his age, his closest comps are Borg, Wilander, Becker, and Nadal. He hasn't been quite as good as Borg and Nadal at his age, but he's been about as good as Wilander and Becker. Meaning, I think now the floor is more like Becker or Wilander - so the worst-case scenario is that he ends up on the lower third of the top 15 or so players of the Open Era. Not a bad outcome. But chances are he'll be better than that...but how much better remains to be seen.

While I think it unlikely that he ends up with a career as good as Rafa's, it is hard not to compare Rafa's 2005-07 with Alcaraz's 2022-24. And who knows, maybe Alcaraz wins Wimbledon or the US Open and another big title or two, and his 2024 is more like Rafa's 2008, when he rose to a higher level and began his true peak. Certainly a Channel Slam would be an impressive feat for the 21 year old! I mean, it is a bit early, but I think Carlos is the favorite heading into Wimbledon.

 

[El Dude]

A bit more on the above. The list above is of their very best season, but for the very best players, here is the year and age that we can say the same players reached something close to peak level.

Connors: 1974 (21)
Borg: 1978 (22)
McEnroe: 1981 (22)
Lendl: 1985 (25)
Sampras: 1994 (22)
Federer: 2004 (22)
Nadal: 2008 (22)
Djokovic: 2011 (24)

Now that is a bit interesting, imo, because it shows that the age 22 season is the most common year that the inner circle greats start their run of "God Mode" seasons. Connors was a year before (but turned 22 in Sept), Lendl a few years after, and Novak a couple years after.

2025 is Alcaraz's age 22 season, so I suppose that bears watching. Meaning, it might be a good indicator of whether he's going to be a garden variety great, or in the company of the men above.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

All this talk about Alcaraz could apply to Jannik Sinner as well if he were to sweep Wimbledon and the US Open. The last 2 slams are going to be interesting, with Alcaraz and Sinner as the clear favorites at both. Alcaraz could be ahead in the slam count 5-1 by the end of the year, or Sinner could pull even at 3 slams a piece.

 

[Moxie]

A bit more on the above. The list above is of their very best season, but for the very best players, here is the year and age that we can say the same players reached something close to peak level.

Connors: 1974 (21)
Borg: 1978 (22)
McEnroe: 1981 (22)
Lendl: 1985 (25)
Sampras: 1994 (22)
Federer: 2004 (22)
Nadal: 2008 (22)
Djokovic: 2011 (24)

Now that is a bit interesting, imo, because it shows that the age 22 season is the most common year that the inner circle greats start their run of "God Mode" seasons. Connors was a year before (but turned 22 in Sept), Lendl a few years after, and Novak a couple years after.

2025 is Alcaraz's age 22 season, so I suppose that bears watching. Meaning, it might be a good indicator of whether he's going to be a garden variety great, or in the company of the men above.

The phrase "garden variety great" made me laugh a little, as an oxymoron, but I get your point. The Magic 8 Ball says "Signs point to Yes" on Charly. I know Sinner doesn't feature in your list, but, in current times, he is young enough, talented enough, and basically having the best year of anyone, to say that he's on the path to make the list. I think he'll beat Djokovic's peak age. (If nothing else, different competition.) Wimbledon will be interesting.

 

[El Dude]

The phrase "garden variety great" made me laugh a little, as an oxymoron, but I get your point. The Magic 8 Ball says "Signs point to Yes" on Charly. I know Sinner doesn't feature in your list, but, in current times, he is young enough, talented enough, and basically having the best year of anyone, to say that he's on the path to make the list. I think he'll beat Djokovic's peak age. (If nothing else, different competition.) Wimbledon will be interesting.

I agree re: Sinner. To add to what PhiEaglesfan712 said above, we can hope that this is the first true year of the "Sincaraz Era" (or Alcazinner?). Both have a Slam and a Masters, though Jannik also has an ATP 500 and deeper non-title results, so he gets the edge so far (he's got 5300 in the race to Alcaraz's 3900). I suspect that at least one of the two remaining Slams goes to one of them, quite possibly both...would love to see a split, then a Tour Finals with #1 on the line!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I thought he was concussed from a water bottle.

Correct he had a stomach virus in Geneva,

 

[Moxie]

I agree re: Sinner. To add to what PhiEaglesfan712 said above, we can hope that this is the first true year of the "Sincaraz Era" (or Alcazinner?). Both have a Slam and a Masters, though Jannik also has an ATP 500 and deeper non-title results, so he gets the edge so far (he's got 5300 in the race to Alcaraz's 3900). I suspect that at least one of the two remaining Slams goes to one of them, quite possibly both...would love to see a split, then a Tour Finals with #1 on the line!

While I don't love "Sincaraz," I'm afraid the other option sounds like "Alzheimer's," which, sadly, more describes the Djokovic/Nadal rivalry, these days. Sad, but true.

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but Alcaraz and Sinner will go into Wimbledon as the favorites, for sure. Sinner is the newly-minted #1, and Carlos the defending champion. Surely Novak and Rafa are out.

I also have to think, and hope, that somewhere Holger Rune is stewing over this, and pissed off that he's not yet in the conversation. I'd like to see him there. I could be wrong about him, and he becomes a footnote, but I hope not.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I feel Sinner's game better suits the grass, than clay, though seeing it was his worse surface making the SF this year at RG is a huge improvement, since he was defeated in R2 last year
Sinner has SF points to defend at Wimby this year and I hope he can go one better make the final
In regards to Rune I saw promising signs in his play at RG

 

[rafanoy1992]

The phrase "garden variety great" made me laugh a little, as an oxymoron, but I get your point. The Magic 8 Ball says "Signs point to Yes" on Charly. I know Sinner doesn't feature in your list, but, in current times, he is young enough, talented enough, and basically having the best year of anyone, to say that he's on the path to make the list. I think he'll beat Djokovic's peak age. (If nothing else, different competition.) Wimbledon will be interesting.

Thank you for mentioning Jannik Sinner, @Moxie

Alcaraz is the man of the hour and deservingly so as he won his 3rd Slam title in three different surfaces.

However, Sinner’s body of work since post-USO until now is pretty remarkable.

53-5 with 5 titles (6 if you include Davis Cup). Out of those 5 losses, 4 of them were against the eventual champions (Alcaraz (2x), Djokovic and Tsitsipas). Also, 4 of those losses went to a deciding set.

Finally, if Sinner can reach RG SF (his “worst” surface), then he can definitely win Wimbledon and US Open, if he is healthy.

 

[The Strokes]

Thank you for mentioning Jannik Sinner, @Moxie

Alcaraz is the man of the hour and deservingly so as he won his 3rd Slam title in three different surfaces.

However, Sinner’s body of work since post-USO until now is pretty remarkable.

53-5 with 5 titles (6 if you include Davis Cup). Out of those 5 losses, 4 of them were against the eventual champions (Alcaraz (2x), Djokovic and Tsitsipas). Also, 4 of those losses went to a deciding set.

Finally, if Sinner can reach RG SF (his “worst” surface), then he can definitely win Wimbledon and US Open, if he is healthy.

Honestly I don't see Sinner beating Alcaraz in a slam final, on any surface. Maybe he'll get to face someone else, and then his chances improve. I don't really know how good he is on grass.
Alcaraz just has so much more in his tool box that Sinner, and always will. I mean the hands, the touch, the overall variety, the ability to invent in the moment. Alcaraz wasn't even playing his best in the Sinner semi, or the AZ final, and they both went 5 sets, but the 5th set was never in doubt in either case.
I see Alcaraz in a league of his own--Big 3 league--though Sinner is certainly the 2nd best of the young ones.

And I have to add this: I think Alcaraz is the most exciting player to hit the courts since Rafa; he commands your attention in a way none of the others do, he has tennis star dust, and as such is going to do so much for the game at a time when the last of the Big are surely fading.