2024 Roland Garros Final: Alcaraz vs Zverev

[the AntiPusher]

It does affect, but you keep saying it would be a "completely different match." You can't know that. I like El Dude's point that overcoming adversity is part of what makes a champion. And let's not pretend that Zverev hasn't show some pretty bad behavior on court over the years. He took it in today, though.

That one call wasn't going to stop Carlos who rolled Sascha Zverev the past 2 and a half sets. You have to CLOSE out each point, game and set to be a GS champion. The big three has laid that same perigee for the past 20 years and Zverev knows better. It is the WAY!

 

[Moxie]

Exactly. And it would've been good for tennis if Zverev won for that reason imo. I'll more often than not prefer that the older player wins. Alcaraz has years ahead of him at 21 but Zverev is already 28 next April. Sure, players hang around longer these days but Sampras was retired at 31 at just 3 years older than what Zverev will be next year which puts things in perspective as regards hoping the older guy wins.

I like to root for the older guys, but Zverev has been disappointing for a long time now. If you remember the 2017 USO, when Murray pulled out after the draw was made, Roger and Rafa in the top half, and the bottom half was the land of opportunity, which was where Cilic and Zverev were. Zed was young, but it would have been a great time to step up and show what he was made of. Instead, he went out in the 2nd round, Cilic in the 3rd. You were making fun just the other day of Nadal beating Anderson in that final, but who was left? It would have been much more interesting to have Zverev in there, to be a real up-and-comer. But no. He doesn't really seize opportunities, and that's when I started to get disappointed in him.

 

[Moxie]

There is no official definition, obviously, but I see Kyrgios firmly in Next Gen. He and Coric were the first to show up on the map, and it felt like a gap between them and the Lost Genners. Plus, he was born in 95, which is firmly into my preferred five-year spans (94-98).

I agree with Kyrgios in Next Gen, and, as you mentioned that Thiem is on the line, I put him more in Next Gen, too, as he broke a bit later. Which would leave Lost Gen with no Major wins.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I think the problem for Zverev overall is he gets ahead of himself in matches. I think in some cases he thought about where he was in the match rather than just play. He showed nerves at points in the match where I was like you aren’t serving for the set or match, this is a weird place to lose the plot.

 

[Moxie]

I think the problem for Zverev overall is he gets ahead of himself in matches. I think in some cases he thought about where he was in the match rather than just play. He showed nerves at points in the match where I was like you aren’t serving for the set or match, this is a weird place to lose the plot.

Looking ahead, particularly in a big match, can be the kiss of death.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I think the key for Alcaraz going forward is staying healthy enough to compete for big slam numbers. His game is incredibly physical and demanding. Sometimes I think he overextends himself physically when he doesn’t have to like he goes out of his way to get those crowd pleasing shots to play to the crowd. I think that could prove to his detriment at some point. He plays high risk tennis and that isn’t easy on the body.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think the problem for Zverev overall is he gets ahead of himself in matches. I think in some cases he thought about where he was in the match rather than just play. He showed nerves at points in the match where I was like you aren’t serving for the set or match, this is a weird place to lose the plot.

Tell ya the truth, he played more focused vs Rafa for the entirety of the match then he did afterwards.. Holger blew his chances big time afterwards given the lifeline by the Lil Spaniard earlier in the tournament

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think the key for Alcaraz going forward is staying healthy enough to compete for big slam numbers. His game is incredibly physical and demanding. Sometimes I think he overextends himself physically when he doesn’t have to like he goes out of his way to get those crowd pleasing shots to play to the crowd. I think that could prove to his detriment at some point. He plays high risk tennis and that isn’t easy on the body.

I think Sascha takes too many points off especially when at the net. He is too careless around the net. E g. I think for myself the simplistic of executing a backhand slice drop shot is something a pro should be able to execute 99/100 time. All you have to do is get under the ball and follow through completely across your body.. there's no way most opponents is going to be able to get to the ball if they're in the far end of the back court. Carlos changed the match whenever he decided to bring Sascha into the front court..just my two cents worth

 

[atttomole]

The weak era exponents can start talking.

 

[Federberg]

I think Sascha takes too many points off especially when at the net. He is too careless around the net. E g. I think for myself the simplistic of executing a backhand slice drop shot is something a pro should be able to execute 99/100 time. All you have to do is get under the ball and follow through completely across your body.. there's no way most opponents is going to be able to get to the ball if they're in the far end of the back court. Carlos changed the match whenever he decided to bring Sascha into the front court..just my two cents worth

you're right. But it's difficult for a tall baseliner. He needs to bend down more to get the right contact and technique. At 27yrs old perhaps he should have figured that out by now. But he still has time

 

[El Dude]

Great stats thanks. Question? As it stands right now Medvedev and maybe Thiem are going to be in the HOF. Any thoughts on this?

As I think I've said here before, I haven't dived into the HOF much, but I do know a bit about the baseball HOF and I imagine there are some similar dynamics: specifically, changing (and highly subjective) criteria, as well as the influence of personality.

But just looking at some of the players that are in, Medvedev should already be there. His overall record is comparable to recent inductees like Ivanisevic, Stich and Roddick, and he's not done yet (though I'd put his chances of winning another Slam at significantly less than 50%...it is going to be increasingly difficult to get through the Alcaraz-Sinner Scylla and Charybdis).

Thiem's a bit more borderline. I'd rank him below those guys, and closer to players like Cilic, Krajicek and Ferrero, neither of whom are in. He probably had a higher peak, but played during a rough era and his injury probably nailed the coffin shut on the HOF.

So clearly there's a weird zone between Krajicek/Ferrero/Cilic and Stich/Ivanisevic/Roddick. I'm reminded of a term in baseball, the "Hall of the Very Good" - players that had very good careers, but not great ones....meaning, players you think twice about, but ultimately don't quite have that "Hall of Fame vibe." Some of those players eventually end up in the Hall, but most don't.

 

[El Dude]

Here's a rather exclusive club: players who have won Slams in three consecutive years (Open Era only):

Rosewall, Vilas, Borg (8 years), McEnroe, Lendl (4), Wilander (4), Edberg, Agassi, Courier, Sampras (8), Federer (8), Wawrinka, Nadal (10, 4), Djokovic (6, 6), Alcaraz.

Conspicuously absent about ATGs are Connors and Becker.

And of course only Borg, Wilander, Nadal, and Alcaraz did it before turning 22.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

The cruel part for players like Zverev is the more times you get close and dont finish it, the harder it gets to finish it, Scar tissue is bad, I also liken Zverev to a WTA player Ons Jabeur same applies to Ons over the years at Wimbledon.

I also feel that Zverev has done nothing to adapt around the fact there were plenty of younger players behind him willing to put in the work

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Think about this!,
Alcaraz is an Australian Open trophy away from a career Grand Slam!

 

[Moxie]

Here's a rather exclusive club: players who have won Slams in three consecutive years (Open Era only):

Rosewall, Vilas, Borg (8 years), McEnroe, Lendl (4), Wilander (4), Edberg, Agassi, Courier, Sampras (8), Federer (8), Wawrinka, Nadal (10, 4), Djokovic (6, 6), Alcaraz.

Conspicuously absent about ATGs are Connors and Becker.

And of course only Borg, Wilander, Nadal, and Alcaraz did it before turning 22.

That seems like such a small number, but then you have to win at least 3 just to make the list, and you're talking consecutive years. Only 6 guys have a total of 3 titles in the Open Era, counting Alcaraz!

 

[Moxie]

Think about this!,
Alcaraz is an Australian Open trophy away from a career Grand Slam!

I was actually thinking about that this morning, wondering if he'd win today. I think Sharapova has it, with only 4 Major titles total. Stan, with his 3, only lacked Wimbledon.

You have to think he'll do it at some point, and before he turns 25, which would surpass Rafa as the youngest to do it, in the Open Era. Not sure if he could pass Laver as the youngest, overall.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Zverev,

" We're both physically strong but he's a beast.He's an animal. for sure.The intensity he plays tennis at is different to other people.You know, he can do so many different things, right?" ( source TennisNow)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I also feel Zverev didnt play to win in those last 2 sets, he just played to stay in the match, being passive on many points and his shots especially his volleys were poor.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

The scary thing with Alcaraz he was not at his 'best' in the final, but his ability to win not at his best, able to peak at the right times in the match to get over the line and win

 

[tossip]

The scary thing with Alcaraz he was not at his 'best' in the final, but his ability to win not at his best, able to peak at the right times in the match to get over the line and win

yes...he was making a lot of errors