2024 Roland Garros Final: Alcaraz vs Zverev

[Front242]

Andy Roddick is in Austin, TX. The Hawkeye they have is unofficial. However, it probably was a bad call, on a point to win his service game, which, instead he lost. Not all points are equal. I agree with that. But Zverev had already played a crap game this set to lose serve. He lacks the heart in the big moments. It's a pattern. If he lost hope after that, it's still on him. There was time to regroup. Instead he got broken again.

There was an extremely high chance he'd have broken straight back for 3-3 if that ball was called out. Completely different match then.

 

[El Dude]

The curse of the NEXT GEN lingers on . @El Dude El Dude is their a thread for the ineptitude of the Next Generation players in grand slams. Only Medvedev winning the US Open is the only grand slam champion.

I've been dabbling with something about Next Gen vs. the Millenial Gen. I mean, Next Gen is much better than the Lost Gen, and to be fair they've still had to deal with late prime Novak and Rafa (and Roger, a bit). But yeah:

Slam finals:
Players born 1989-93 (Lost Gen): 1-5 (Thiem 1-3, Raonic 0-1, Nishikori 0-1)
Players born 1994-98 (Next Gen): 1-14 (Medvedev 1-5, Zverev 0-2, Ruud 0-3, Tsitsipas 0-2, Berrettini 0-1, Kyrgios 0-1)
Players born 1999-03 (Millenial Gen): 4-0 (Alcaraz 3-0, Sinner 1-0)

For Next Gen, 15 Slam final appearances, only one title. Hey, at least they've been reaching finals - Lost Gen only made 6, and Thiem arguably belongs with Next Gen (then it would be 0-2 vs 2-17).

 

[Front242]

Runner up's speech was enough for me. TV off.

 

[El Dude]

There was an extremely high chance he'd have broken straight back for 3-3 if that ball was called out. Completely different match then.

Sure, but overcoming that sort of adversity is one of the things separates the greats from the "no cigars."

Anyhow, Zverev is solidifying his status as the greatest player of the Open Era not to win a Slam. If he continues to play well for a few years and never wins one, it won't be particularly close.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is my favorite part of the ceremony they play the winners anthem, of Spain
This reminds me of Rafa sorry Carlos

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I've been dabbling with something about Next Gen vs. the Millenial Gen. I mean, Next Gen is much better than the Lost Gen, and to be fair they've still had to deal with late prime Novak and Rafa (and Roger, a bit). But yeah:

Slam finals:
Players born 1989-93 (Lost Gen): 1-5 (Thiem 1-3, Raonic 0-1, Nishikori 0-1)
Players born 1994-98 (Next Gen): 1-14 (Medvedev 1-5, Zverev 0-2, Ruud 0-3, Tsitsipas 0-2, Berrettini 0-1, Kyrgios 0-1)
Players born 1999-03 (Millenial Gen): 4-0 (Alcaraz 3-0, Sinner 1-0)

For Next Gen, 15 Slam final appearances, only one title. Hey, at least they've been reaching finals - Lost Gen only made 6, and Thiem arguably belongs with Next Gen (then it would be 0-2 vs 2-17).

To me, Kygrios is the dividing line between Lost Gen and Next Gen (Lost Gen II). You can put Kyrgios in either group, but players born before him are Lost Gen and after him are Next Gen.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Juan Carlos Ferreo is such a handsome man
Carlos is the spitting image of his dad

 

[the AntiPusher]

I've been dabbling with something about Next Gen vs. the Millenial Gen. I mean, Next Gen is much better than the Lost Gen, and to be fair they've still had to deal with late prime Novak and Rafa (and Roger, a bit). But yeah:

Slam finals:
Players born 1989-93 (Lost Gen): 1-5 (Thiem 1-3, Raonic 0-1, Nishikori 0-1)
Players born 1994-98 (Next Gen): 1-14 (Medvedev 1-5, Zverev 0-2, Ruud 0-3, Tsitsipas 0-2, Berrettini 0-1, Kyrgios 0-1)
Players born 1999-03 (Millenial Gen): 4-0 (Alcaraz 3-0, Sinner 1-0)

For Next Gen, 15 Slam final appearances, only one title. Hey, at least they've been reaching finals - Lost Gen only made 6, and Thiem arguably belongs with Next Gen (then it would be 0-2 vs 2-17).

Great stats thanks. Question? As it stands right now Medvedev and maybe Thiem are going to be in the HOF. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Federberg]

are we agreed that Carlito is not in his prime yet? His trajectory is terrifying. Doesn't mean he'll reach Big 3 levels, but he's giving himself the chance!

 

[El Dude]

To me, Kygrios is the dividing line between Lost Gen and Next Gen (Lost Gen II). You can put Kyrgios in either group, but players born before him are Lost Gen and after him are Next Gen.

There is no official definition, obviously, but I see Kyrgios firmly in Next Gen. He and Coric were the first to show up on the map, and it felt like a gap between them and the Lost Genners. Plus, he was born in 95, which is firmly into my preferred five-year spans (94-98).

 

[the AntiPusher]

To me, Kygrios is the dividing line between Lost Gen and Next Gen (Lost Gen II). You can put Kyrgios in either group, but players born before him are Lost Gen and after him are Next Gen.

At least the other guys tried, I NEVER felt Nick wanted to win Wimbledon..it was probably the worst GS final Novak played at Wimbledon and still won in four sets ..

 

[Front242]

Sure, but overcoming that sort of adversity is one of the things separates the greats from the "no cigars."

Anyhow, Zverev is solidifying his status as the greatest player of the Open Era not to win a Slam. If he continues to play well for a few years and never wins one, it won't be particularly close.

It goes both ways though. The player who lost the point unjustly was fucked over and the player who was gifted the point had a massive advantage in what contributed greatly towards securing their title. It's crap and needs to change. Ok, so Hawkeye is coming in 2025. About time. Doesn't change this result though. After the journey he's had with recovery from his bad injury and court case, this really had to sting for him. I like his demeanor on court also, not smashing racquets or cursing like so many but just looking down at the ground 'cos he must've been rotting inside.

 

[Front242]

are we agreed that Carlito is not in his prime yet? His trajectory is terrifying. Doesn't mean he'll reach Big 3 levels, but he's giving himself the chance!

Mightily impressive alright and I like him. I just think it would've been better for tennis if Zverev won today as it would've made things more interesting. Many here strenuously dislike him and that's fine but, in my mind, it would have been fitting for the guy who beat Nadal to have won it.

 

[Moxie]

It goes both ways though. The player who lost the point unjustly was fucked over and the player who was gifted the point had a massive advantage in what contributed greatly towards securing their title. It's crap and needs to change. Ok, so Hawkeye is coming in 2025. About time. Doesn't change this result though. After the journey he's had with recovery from his bad injury and court case, this really had to sting for him. I like his demeanor on court also, not smashing racquets or cursing like so many but just looking down at the ground 'cos he must've been rotting inside.

It does affect, but you keep saying it would be a "completely different match." You can't know that. I like El Dude's point that overcoming adversity is part of what makes a champion. And let's not pretend that Zverev hasn't show some pretty bad behavior on court over the years. He took it in today, though.

 

[tossip]

Sure, but overcoming that sort of adversity is one of the things separates the greats from the "no cigars."

Anyhow, Zverev is solidifying his status as the greatest player of the Open Era not to win a Slam. If he continues to play well for a few years and never wins one, it won't be particularly close.

in the Dementieva mold

 

[Front242]

It does affect, but you keep saying it would be a "completely different match." You can't know that. I like El Dude's point that overcoming adversity is part of what makes a champion. And let's not pretend that Zverev hasn't show some pretty bad behavior on court over the years. He took it in today, though.

Come on. 3-3 versus 4-2 that went on to be 5-2?! He cashed out after that.

 

[Moxie]

Mightily impressive alright and I like him. I just think it would've been better for tennis if Zverev won today as it would've made things more interesting. Many here strenuously dislike him and that's fine but, in my mind, it would have been fitting for the guy who beat Nadal to have won it.

Only 1 time has the guy who beat Nadal gone on to win the title.

 

[tossip]

Juan Carlos Ferreo is such a handsome man
Carlos is the spitting image of his dad

yes JCF is very young looking and a hottie.

 

[Moxie]

Come on. 3-3 versus 4-2 that went on to be 5-2?! He cashed out after that.

As I said, if he lost heart, that's on him.

 

[Front242]

Only 1 time has the guy who beat Nadal gone on to win the title.

Exactly. And it would've been good for tennis if Zverev won for that reason imo. I'll more often than not prefer that the older player wins. Alcaraz has years ahead of him at 21 but Zverev is already 28 next April. Sure, players hang around longer these days but Sampras was retired at 31 at just 3 years older than what Zverev will be next year which puts things in perspective as regards hoping the older guy wins.