2024 Olympic Games [Men] - Stade Roland Garros/Clay

[MikeOne]

Mike
We were talking about todays match with Novak and his mental focus not what happened at Wimbledon

Your post was more a general view of carlos and novak’s mental abilities, not just about this match. At least it’s how you chose your words, as if carlos has all shots but lacks mental fortitude of novak.

Reality is carlos has battled novak well in slam finals and tight matches.

But in this match, i don’t think had much to do with carlos’ mind. He played very well and a point here and there, would’ve won. When both are at their best (madrid, cincinatti, wimbledon 23), it’s a toss up. Carlos has a bit more feel and finishing power, novak more consistent, takes ball earlier and hits deeper. Carlos will get more winners, more ufes, novak will force more errors by putting pressure. This is what we saw today, didn’t really see much difference in mental edge, just a big shot here and there. In some matches carlos will play big points better (madrid, wimbledon 23 5th set), at times novak (cincy, today). Then you have the rare lop sided matches (winbledon 24, atp tour finals 23).

Today was high quality.. technically, physically, mentally. Came down to a few shots and carlos will tend to have more ufes, more winners than novak as he goes for more. When novak has more ufes, that’s a red flag, shows novak off.

Alcaraz is fun to watch. He can toy with top 10 players at times. The trick with him is hit deep, attack him and do it consistently. Novak has done it in 3-4 matches, sinner too. If you put pressure on him over 2-5 sets, he has a tendency to try to go for difficult shots and misses more. If you can’t do this to him, he can make you look pedestrian as he does to tsitsipas, medvedev at times. Zverev can also put pressure on him and has beaten him in two slams but not easy.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Your post was more a general view of carlos and novak’s mental abilities, not just about this match. At least it’s how you chose your words, as if carlos has all shots but lacks mental fortitude of novak.

Reality is carlos has battled novak well in slam finals and tight matches.

But on this match, i don’t think had much to do with carlos mind. He played very well and a point here and there, would’ve won. When both are at their best (madrid, cincinatti, wimbledon 23), it’s a toss up. Carlos has a bit nore feel and finishing power, novak more consistent, taking ball earlier and hitting deeper. Carlos will get more winners, more ufes, novak will force more errors by putting pressure. This is what we saw today, didn’t really see much differencr in mental edge, just a big shot here and there. In somr matches carlos will play big points better (madrid, wimbledon 23 5th set), at times novak (cincy, today). Then you have the rare lop sided matches (winbledon 24, atp tour finals 23).

Today was high quality.. technically, physically, mentally. Came down to a fee shots and carlos will tend to have more ufes, more winners than novak as he goes fot more. When novak has more ufes, that’s a red flag, shows novak off.

Alcaraz is fun to watch. He can toy with top 10 players at times. The trick with him is hit deep, attack him and do it consistently. Novak has done it in 3-4 matches, sinner too. If you put pressure on him over 2-5 sets, he has a tendency to try to go for difficult shots and misses more. If you can’t do this to him, he can make you look pedestrian as he does to tsitsipas, medvedev at times. Zverev can also put pressure on him and has beaten him in two slams but not easy.

Well Mike that wasnt what I was implying at all, Carlos has great mental fortitude we have all seen that over the year, I was simply saying Novak's focus and mentally ability was on show in this match today, not saying he hasnt shown it before in matches of course,

 

[Front242]

Btw, without me Googling, when did the Olympics change the men's tennis final to best of 3 ? I thought all matches till the final were best of 3 and the final was best of 5 ?!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

BTW Djokovic is the first ever player to win Olympic Gold without losing a set ( in mens singles) !

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Btw, without me Googling, when did the Olympics change the men's tennis final to best of 3 ? I thought all matches till the final were best of 3 and the final was best of 5 ?!

My brain is a bit frazzled at 2am, I would have to google that

 

[nehmeth]

Thirty-seven year old playing in his fifth Olympics finally gets it done. High quality from both guys. Congratulations Novak.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Mens Singles Medals Olympics 2024.
Gold Novak Djokovic
Silver Carlos Alcaraz
Bronze Lorenzo Musetti

 

[El Dude]

Re: the "mental edge," I cannot help but think of Roger. I only watched the second set, but my perception of it is that Carlos played brilliantly, with equivalent--or very close--skill and ability to Novak. But in the tiebreak, Novak focused in even more, while Carlos stayed about the same or dropped a bit. Not sure he dropped as much as didn't adjust to Novak's step up--he didn't meet it.

Roger had a similar problem, at least with Novak and Rafa, both of whom had the ability to find another level in the crucial moments. Roger didn't seem to be able to do that; his level was his level. When he was on, he was nigh unbeatable, but he didn't quite have the "turbo charger" that Rafa and Novak had/have. Carlos seems to have a similar all-around brilliance, but--at least in that match--I didn't see a turbo charger, if anything a bit of a "stall" as Novak turbo-ed up. This is also why the Rafa-Novak battles were so awesome--they turbo charged in response to each other, at least when they were both playing really well!

 

[Fiero425]

Re: the "mental edge," I cannot help but think of Roger. I only watched the second set, but my perception of it is that Carlos played brilliantly, with equivalent--or very close--skill and ability to Novak. But in the tiebreak, Novak focused in even more, while Carlos stayed about the same or dropped a bit. Not sure he dropped as much as didn't adjust to Novak's step up--he didn't meet it.

Roger had a similar problem, at least with Novak and Rafa, both of whom had the ability to find another level in the crucial moments. Roger didn't seem to be able to do that; his level was his level. When he was on, he was nigh unbeatable, but he didn't quite have the "turbo charger" that Rafa and Novak had/have. Carlos seems to have a similar all-around brilliance, but--at least in that match--I didn't see a turbo charger, if anything a bit of a "stall" as Novak turbo-ed up. This is also why the Rafa-Novak battles were so awesome--they turbo charged in response to each other, at least when they were both playing really well!

Shocking! Glad I hung on long enuf to see this day! So many thinking Nole should retire & @Moxie calling me a hypocrite! "Nyah, Nyah Nyah!"

 

[MikeOne]

Re: the "mental edge," I cannot help but think of Roger. I only watched the second set, but my perception of it is that Carlos played brilliantly, with equivalent--or very close--skill and ability to Novak. But in the tiebreak, Novak focused in even more, while Carlos stayed about the same or dropped a bit. Not sure he dropped as much as didn't adjust to Novak's step up--he didn't meet it.

Roger had a similar problem, at least with Novak and Rafa, both of whom had the ability to find another level in the crucial moments. Roger didn't seem to be able to do that; his level was his level. When he was on, he was nigh unbeatable, but he didn't quite have the "turbo charger" that Rafa and Novak had/have. Carlos seems to have a similar all-around brilliance, but--at least in that match--I didn't see a turbo charger, if anything a bit of a "stall" as Novak turbo-ed up. This is also why the Rafa-Novak battles were so awesome--they turbo charged in response to each other, at least when they were both playing really well!

We tend to overlook times federer was cluch like when he took nadal down in 5 sets at wimbledon in 07 and in ao later in his careet. He outcluctched rafa in 5th sets. He had his moments against novak, like when he took him out in 2011 french open.

I think there is a real simple explanation. Carlos, like federer, takes more chances. Higher risk tennis can be tricky in pressure situations. As the ones going for the shots, natural order of things is they take the risks snd under pressure that can be a liability.

IMO, not to do with who is mentally stronger or weaker. When both players are nervous and it’s key moments, carlos, like federer, will have higher chance to miss. That simple. Asking them to change their style in pressure moments is a lot to ask. Carlos had to continue to go for his shots, even when nervous. Again, i think this is simple, it’s different styles of tennis and under nerves, the aggressors may be at a slight disadvantage unless they can somehow avoid nerves. Novak and rafa may be nervous but play higher percentage tennis, more often than carlos or federer did.

Now carlos has played high pressure better than novak at times. Take that 5th set at wimbledon, he came up with crazy shots in 5th.

I think matches like these, really not much seperate them. Had novak not made some of those fh winners on the run and missed a serve here and there, carlos would have won today, playing exactly the same as he did. It it just by chance and luck, not really who was stronger mentally or not… in these tight matches, even the stronger mentally can have an unlucky moment.

But as good as carlos is, if novak and him are at their best and they both nervous, i lean djokovic simply because of their styles. Novak will play lockdown, hit aggresive, deep but not go for crazy shots. Carlos will go for his shots, this is his game, he shouldn’t change it.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Congratulations to Novak! I'm sure that in 10 years you will still be physically beating 20 year olds!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/19/novak-djokovic-isnt-accused-of-doping-but-he-sounds-eerily-like-lance-armstrong/

 

[Fiero425]

Congratulations to Novak! I'm sure that in 10 years you will still be physically beating 20 year olds!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/19/novak-djokovic-isnt-accused-of-doping-but-he-sounds-eerily-like-lance-armstrong/

Shocking again, but not shocked! Wow, what an accusation after Nadal's rep. writtled w/ suspicion he's been on PED's since the beginning! SAD!

 

[don_fabio]

Match Stats:

Set 1

Set 2

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Congratulations to Novak! I'm sure that in 10 years you will still be physically beating 20 year olds!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/19/novak-djokovic-isnt-accused-of-doping-but-he-sounds-eerily-like-lance-armstrong/

Remember, Roger was still going strong at age 37 and 38, until he suffered that injury at the 2020 Australian Open. Roger came back in 2021 at age 39, but wasn't the same player. The same thing could happen to Novak. He might be playing at a high level now, but the wheels might fall off by the time we get to 2026.

 

[El Dude]

We tend to overlook times federer was cluch like when he took nadal down in 5 sets at wimbledon in 07 and in ao later in his careet. He outcluctched rafa in 5th sets. He had his moments against novak, like when he took him out in 2011 french open.

I think there is a real simple explanation. Carlos, like federer, takes more chances. Higher risk tennis can be tricky in pressure situations. As the ones going for the shots, natural order of things is they take the risks snd under pressure that can be a liability.

IMO, not to do with who is mentally stronger or weaker. When both players are nervous and it’s key moments, carlos, like federer, will have higher chance to miss. That simple. Asking them to change their style in pressure moments is a lot to ask. Carlos had to continue to go for his shots, even when nervous. Again, i think this is simple, it’s different styles of tennis and under nerves, the aggressors may be at a slight disadvantage unless they can somehow avoid nerves. Novak and rafa may be nervous but play higher percentage tennis, more often than carlos or federer did.

Now carlos has played high pressure better than novak at times. Take that 5th set at wimbledon, he came up with crazy shots in 5th.

I think matches like these, really not much seperate them. Had novak not made some of those fh winners on the run and missed a serve here and there, carlos would have won today, playing exactly the same as he did. It it just by chance and luck, not really who was stronger mentally or not… in these tight matches, even the stronger mentally can have an unlucky moment.

But as good as carlos is, if novak and him are at their best and they both nervous, i lean djokovic simply because of their styles. Novak will play lockdown, hit aggresive, deep but not go for crazy shots. Carlos will go for his shots, this is his game, he shouldn’t change it.

Excellent analysis - I think you are right. I still think there is a turbo-charge element, but I think your explanation is closer to the main factor than mine.

 

[El Dude]

Congratulations to Novak! I'm sure that in 10 years you will still be physically beating 20 year olds!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/19/novak-djokovic-isnt-accused-of-doping-but-he-sounds-eerily-like-lance-armstrong/

"Some people" have arrived. But I didn't expect them to go this low.

 

[Front242]

"Some people" have arrived. But I didn't expect them to go this low.

Djokovic was absolutely belting the ball too so the usual "pushovic" bs from the same poster can't be said either.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Djokovic was absolutely belting the ball too so the usual "pushovic" bs from the same poster can't be said either.

Some of those fhands Novak hit in the TB were lazor like, when Novak gets to a TB, he just finds an extra gear and that is what happened in the match

 

[atttomole]

We tend to overlook times federer was cluch like when he took nadal down in 5 sets at wimbledon in 07 and in ao later in his careet. He outcluctched rafa in 5th sets. He had his moments against novak, like when he took him out in 2011 french open.

I think there is a real simple explanation. Carlos, like federer, takes more chances. Higher risk tennis can be tricky in pressure situations. As the ones going for the shots, natural order of things is they take the risks snd under pressure that can be a liability.

IMO, not to do with who is mentally stronger or weaker. When both players are nervous and it’s key moments, carlos, like federer, will have higher chance to miss. That simple. Asking them to change their style in pressure moments is a lot to ask. Carlos had to continue to go for his shots, even when nervous. Again, i think this is simple, it’s different styles of tennis and under nerves, the aggressors may be at a slight disadvantage unless they can somehow avoid nerves. Novak and rafa may be nervous but play higher percentage tennis, more often than carlos or federer did.

Now carlos has played high pressure better than novak at times. Take that 5th set at wimbledon, he came up with crazy shots in 5th.

I think matches like these, really not much seperate them. Had novak not made some of those fh winners on the run and missed a serve here and there, carlos would have won today, playing exactly the same as he did. It it just by chance and luck, not really who was stronger mentally or not… in these tight matches, even the stronger mentally can have an unlucky moment.

But as good as carlos is, if novak and him are at their best and they both nervous, i lean djokovic simply because of their styles. Novak will play lockdown, hit aggresive, deep but not go for crazy shots. Carlos will go for his shots, this is his game, he shouldn’t change it.

I agree! Roger was high risk, like Carlito, but I think Carlito should improve on that. Carlito can grind and he will be able to play lower risk tennis.

 

[shawnbm]

Some of those fhands Novak hit in the TB were lazor like, when Novak gets to a TB, he just finds an extra gear and that is what happened in the match

I believe until recently, as in the last few years, the greatest tiebreaker record an ATP history belong to Roger, but Novak slid ahead of him a few years ago and has remained at the top I believe. The tiebreaker record against your opponents as a good indicator of where you are on the mental toughness scale in my humble opinion. Borg had the best tiebreaker record in this era if I am not mistaken and I will bet the Pete Sampas likely did of his. Roger clearly was the best for a long time and by a ways until Novak. Just another statistic that Novak will end up having over everybody else.