2024 Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy - Masters 1000

[Moxie]

Musetti has very nice game. Like a lot of talented players, it’s the ability to press through the tough patches that makes the difference. I’ve seen him collapse so many times. I thought the baby and getting married would help him. It just seems like it hasn’t yet. Then I was watching his match yesterday and he just retired. I hope he turns it around. I really do.

We talk a lot around here about the difference between talent and...what? grit? ambition? competitiveness? where they find their watermark?

I don't see how having a baby and a wife works for a young player, in terms of motivation. Or even settling them. On the men's side, I can't think of one example. Have you got any?

 

[nehmeth]

In fairness, Berrettini's had little time on tour to make improvements. Every time he tries to catch back up, something buffets him back. That's bad luck. Right now, I'm sure he's hoping he can hold on to his serve and his forehand. Improvements will have to wait. Not fair to judge that.

When Nishikori and Raonic were youngsters (I don’t remember which board we were on at the time), I stated that both of them would have careers marked by injury. It’s just the way they were built. I got a good deal of blowback from a few posters. Turned out to be true. Matteo in my opinion is done. If he comes back and makes a successful career, I will happily eat my words.

 

[nehmeth]

We talk a lot around here about the difference between talent and...what? grit? ambition? competitiveness? where they find their watermark?

I don't see how having a baby and a wife works for a young player, in terms of motivation. Or even settling them. On the men's side, I can't think of one example. Have you got any?

Novak. Stefan was born in 2014. He and Jelena were married that year. Subsequently throughout his career he’s stated what it means to him, how he plays better. The results are below. Having a child, getting married can ground a young person. Not that it does for everyone, but for some people.

 

[Moxie]

When Nishikori and Raonic were youngsters (I don’t remember which board we were on at the time), I stated that both of them would have careers marked by injury. It’s just the way they were built. I got a good deal of blowback from a few posters. Turned out to be true. Matteo in my opinion is done. If he comes back and makes a successful career, I will happily eat my words.

Nishikori was everyone's poster boy for too much injury. ("Glassikori?" I don't know if you coined that one.) Anyway, Nishikori was a gimme. Raonic...well, if you caught that one early, kudos. But he's also been injury-plagued for a long time. (Also, a not especially interesting player. Some good results, for a short time. But nobody liked him, let's face it.)

Matteo has talent, and people want to hold out hope for him. You're most probably right that his best tennis is behind him. I'd like to think it's too early to say. You get blowback because it feels unkind, when it's before time. You can gloat if you're right, down the road. For me, I'm going to hold out hope. I did with Nishikori. And I was wrong. Doesn't cost me anything, though. Raonic, I had no interest in.

 

[Moxie]

Novak. Stefan was born in 2014. He and Jelena were married that year. Subsequently throughout his career he’s stated what it means to him, how he plays better. The results are below. Having a child, getting married can ground a young person. Not that it does for everyone, but for some people.View attachment 9457

 

[nehmeth]

Nishikori was everyone's poster boy for too much injury. ("Glassikori?" I don't know if you coined that one.) Anyway, Nishikori was a gimme. Raonic...well, if you caught that one early, kudos. But he's also been injury-plagued for a long time. (Also, a not especially interesting player. Some good results, for a short time. But nobody liked him, let's face it.)

Matteo has talent, and people want to hold out hope for him. You're most probably right that his best tennis is behind him. I'd like to think it's too early to say. You get blowback because it feels unkind, when it's before time. You can gloat if you're right, down the road. For me, I'm going to hold out hope. I did with Nishikori. And I was wrong. Doesn't cost me anything, though. Raonic, I had no interest in.

I wasn’t on the board - never read Glassikori. He and Raonic had yet to have any major injury, when I made my statements. Hence the blowback from some. And that‘s great that you hold out hope for Matteo. I did for Haas. After reaching #2 in the world, there was the shoulder surgery and then a descent into the macabre, bizarre injuries and incidents with him and his family.

And Del Potro… the loss of him to the sport, I still grieve.

 

[Moxie]

^ Novak doesn't count, I'm sorry. He already had, what, 6 or more Majors when his son was born? There is nothing to say that he'd have been a more ambitious player with or without a wife and children. I'm talking about players who marry young/have kids young. You're saying it could "settle" Musetti. All I can think of is the ones who dumped their kids and partners. Let's see...Wawrinka, Fritz. Apparently, Zverev is a father, and it doesn't seem to have changed his life much. I'm asking for a player who became a parent young, before they'd done much, like Musetti, who's been helped by the stability of it.

 

[nehmeth]

^ Novak doesn't count, I'm sorry. He already had, what, 6 or more Majors when his son was born? There is nothing to say that he'd have been a more ambitious player with or without a wife and children. I'm talking about players who marry young/have kids young. You're saying it could "settle" Musetti. All I can think of is the ones who dumped their kids and partners. Let's see...Wawrinka, Fritz. Apparently, Zverev is a father, and it doesn't seem to have changed his life much. I'm asking for a player who became a parent young, before they'd done much, like Musetti, who's been helped by the stability of it.

It counts to me. He had seven slams when he got married and had his first child. He has won 16 more and credits his children with his success - that GRIT to fight and not give up. But you probably don’t read that as you are a nonfan. I understand your points; you could have added all of them before you asked me the question. I do believe that marriage and family can help ground a person.. Why do you see marriage and children as such a negative?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie,

I went for a run it is hard to have a fair conversation here sometimes when someone pushes their point of view and dosent see the other side. or refuses to see the other side!
Moving On,
I see you asked about Mussetti
I have followed him since his junior days, sad to say he has not reached his true potential, also now a new dad,'
He wakes up when clay time comes around, and has defeated Novak, though his focus and his lack of physical play has not improved where it should be sad to say
We have some good and up and coming Italian youngsters, they need time to mature in their games though winning DC was just the spark we needed to become a strong force in the tour again

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

KsKate,

Apparently it is still unclear when umpire Carlos Bernades last umpiring match will be ? even though he was given a farewell at the Barcelona final this year.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Nemeth

You just confirmed what I posted to Moxie about having a fair conversation laugh at my post if that makes you feel superior
I am not interested if anyone who condescends, if you want a fair conversation fair enough, until then I am not interested.

 

[Moxie]

It counts to me. He had seven slams when he got married and had his first child. He has won 16 more and credits his children with his success - that GRIT to fight and not give up. But you probably don’t read that as you are a nonfan. I understand your points; you could have added all of them before you asked me the question. I do believe that marriage and family can help ground a person.. Why do you see marriage and children as such a negative?

You have to see the difference between the Big 3 marrying and having children, well into their careers, and a journeyman marrying and having a kid, especially early. I don't see marrying and having children, in general, as a negative, but I don't see how you count them as a positive, in terms of young men, and tennis, in the face of the opposite. You have ignored my question. Show me one man in tennis who seems to have benefitted from being a husband and father at, say, 22. Just to come back to your point: do you really think it's going to help Musetti, that he and his partner have a baby? I'm not trying to be a pill, but you said you thought it would settle Musetti, and I was trying to think of anyone for whom that has happened. At 22.

 

[nehmeth]

Nemeth

You just confirmed what I posted to Moxie about having a fair conversation laugh at my post if that makes you feel superior!

We had a fair conversation. I do see your side. I see Moxie’s. We disagree. Then you make a passive aggressive side swipe at me and I laugh.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie,

I went for a run it is hard to have a fair conversation here sometimes when someone pushes their point of view and dosent see the other side. or refuses to see the other side!
Moving On,
I see you asked about Mussetti
I have followed him since his junior days, sad to say he has not reached his true potential, also now a new dad,'
He wakes up when clay time comes around, and has defeated Novak, though his focus and his lack of physical play has not improved where it should be sad to say
We have some good and up and coming Italian youngsters, they need time to mature in their games though winning DC was just the spark we needed to become a strong force in the tour again

My question: is the cult of the one-handed back hand enough to justify the shanking, and the lack of will?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

We had a fair conversation. I do see your side. I see Moxie’s. We disagree. Then you make a passive aggressive side swipe at me and I laugh.

Well I dont think I made a passive aggressive swipe I said to you I dont want to discuss anymore and move I ,

 

[nehmeth]

You have to see the difference between the Big 3 marrying and having children, well into their careers, and a journeyman marrying and having a kid, especially early. I don't see marrying and having children, in general, as a negative, but I don't see how you count them as a positive, in terms of young men, and tennis, in the face of the opposite. You have ignored my question. Show me one man in tennis who seems to have benefitted from being a husband and father at, say, 22. Just to come back to your point: do you really think it's going to help Musetti, that he and his partner have a baby? I'm not trying to be a pill, but you said you thought it would settle Musetti, and I was trying to think of anyone for whom that has happened. At 22.

When you add all your requisites, I cannot think of one. Novak was 26 when he married. But yes he had won slams. Lorenzo got married there is a kid on the way… it’s more responsibility and sometimes distracting. At the same time, when your child is born, there is sometimes a greater motivation to fight.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

My question: is the cult of the one-handed back hand enough to justify the shanking, and the lack of will?

LOL! Isnt in the overall technique of a one handed bhand, I prefer a two handed bhand for a return eg Novak, though in general play a one handed bhand does come into play and it is effective, though lefties at times have a field day with right handed one handed bhands

 

[nehmeth]

My question: is the cult of the one-handed back hand enough to justify the shanking, and the lack of will?

Another thread… One handed provides less control, less support.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Another thread… One handed provides less control, less support.

Dont faint I happen to agree with you

 

[nehmeth]

Well I dont think I made a passive aggressive swipe I said to you I dont want to discuss anymore and move I ,

“I went for a run it is hard to have a fair conversation here sometimes when someone pushes their point of view and dosent see the other side. or refuses to see the other side!“

That’s what you posted to Moxie. “Passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by a pattern of passive hostility and an avoidance of direct communication.” At the very least it was a side shot at me. If you are done discussing something, YOU move on. Telling me to move on is not within your purview.