2022 Wimbledon F: Djokovic vs. Kyrgios

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie and others that were online in the match

Remember the incident when both Novak and Nick stopped and looked up to the crowd, as their was a protester?
Well apparently a man held up a sign asking....Where Is Peng Shuai? the man was escorted out of the stadium from what I just heard.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Carol there are very few umpires today that actually over rule a lines person's call, especially on the serve,
I had to laugh Nick try to appeal at let call to the umpire lol!

Officials are human too and make mistakes, those who do try to correct the situation the best way they can.

 

[Kieran]

Slow grass yet nick seems to be a god on grass and suck on clay… same for many others… and all those aces flying around. Where’s norrie on clay?

sampras was my favourite player but agassi once took him to 5 and djokovic is superior to agassi in almost every category, including basline game and way superior on return.

Nick served like a machine today, in fact ala sampras in his heyday - 30 aces, 130mph first serve avg, 110+ second serve avg, this is eerily similiar to sampras stats and novak handled the serve quite well, putting so many in play. I don’t like sampras on baseline exhanges with djikovic, heck even federer seemed at a disadvantage vs djokovic on grass from baseline. Federer also had a similar game to pete and lost in 3 finals to novak. Would’ve been an interesting match for sure..

as far as goat on grass… i said IF he gets 8.. right now i’d say fed-sampras-nole

You lost it completely from the start, when you said “Nick seems to be a god on grass…”

I think you suffer from recency bias. To put it gently. Nick is not a god on any court. Most likely not even the court in his local public park. As for “I don’t like sampras on baseline exhanges with djikovic,” of course you wouldn’t. You’re probably surprised Bob Dylan got the Nobel prize for literature ahead of Novak.

But the notion of Pete having baseline exchanges on grass…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Officials are human too and make mistakes, those who do try to correct the situation the best way they can.

Thar wasnt my point at all

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

You lost it completely from the start, when you said “Nick seems to be a god on grass…”

I think you suffer from recency bias. To put it gently. Nick is not a god on any court. Most likely not even the court in his local public park. As for “I don’t like sampras on baseline exhanges with djikovic,” of course you wouldn’t. You’re probably surprised Bob Dylan got the Nobel prize for literature ahead of Novak.

But the notion of Pete having baseline exchanges on grass…

Hold on I said earlier Novak will probably get the Nobel Peace Prize....

 

[Kieran]

Not quite as neat and wrapped up in a bow as you make it out to be. I totally agree that Novak made his own bed when it came to not getting vaccinated, BUT===as you recall, he WAS granted a visa to come in, and then the minister reversed it. because it looked bad that "special treatment" was given to Djokovic, who was let in for having very recently recovered from COVID. And then to put him in a detention hotel while he awaited an appeal. It was NOT handled "cleanly" by those involved. Could Novak has avoided the whole episode by having gotten vaccinated? Yes! But under the circumstances, it was a sloppy affair at best.

He lied on his visa. Before this, he caught covid but still went about his business putting other people’s health in jeopardy. Rather arrogantly, he did this in front of cameras.

And - he DIDN’T have a valid medical exemption, but he pretended he did, then tried to strong arm his way in. Come on, lads, get over this.

As to your comments about Novak's bad personality, that's quite subjective. Of course he's far more emotive on court than Roger or Rafa ever were. But many don't buy Rafa's "Im a humble saint routine". His tactics might be more subtle than Novak's, but the slowdown of play during an opponent's serve, inopportune bathroom breaks, claiming "injury" on many occasions and then running like a gazelle, calling an opponent up to the net to have a chat which threw the opponent off (NOT proper protocol during a match) as he did this Wimbledon, etc. And those are just off the top of my head. NO ONE is a saint---so let's not let our player preferences turn us blind to other top players' shenanigans.

Rafa was correct to call the opponent to the net in that match, but I agree, he’s no saint, and I’ve often said it, the umpire should put the foot down on all of them, with their toilet breaks, wardrobe breaks, etc.

As for Rafa and injuries, can this even be questioned? He’s missed TWELVE slams since he turned pro, NINE since he won his first, and in each of the four slams had to withdraw from the competition after it started.

He’s been quite unfortunate in this regard..,

 

[Kieran]

I've noted this in the past, but as good as Sampras was, we should all be embarrassed trying to elevate him to GOAT status without even appearing in a French Open final! We all were so enamoured with witnessing history, we forgot standards! We've been spoiled by Fedalovic the last couple decades, but unfortunate for future greats, they can probably forget coming close to their excellence! I'm sure Novak's detractors will have plenty to justify Fedal being their BOAT, but it'll look rather ridiculous as their names are slowly being erased out of the record books!

Different days, bro, you know this. The tour was made up of dirtballers and grasscourters. They were miles apart. So much so that Sampras switched from a two hander to a single handed backhand because he knew he wouldn’t win Wimbledon otherwise. The game changed and rewarded the monocultural style that suits baseliners.

Plus there are genuine questions to be asked about the gutless field, certainly when compared to the field in the 80’s and 90’s..

 

[Kieran]

Hold on I said earlier Novak will probably get the Nobel Peace Prize....

Well they gave one to Barack Obama for doing nothing, so why not!

 

[MikeOne]

I've noted this in the past, but as good as Sampras was, we should all be embarrassed trying to elevate him to GOAT status without even appearing in a French Open final! We all were so enamoured with witnessing history, we forgot standards! We've been spoiled by Fedalovic the last couple decades, but unfortunate for future greats, they can probably forget coming close to their excellence! I'm sure Novak's detractors will have plenty to justify Fedal being their BOAT, but it'll look rather ridiculous as their names are slowly being erased out of the record books!

Hehe

feel worse for roger, novak may erase all his records - slams, weeks at #1 and maybe, MAYBE even 8 wimbledon titles. BRUTAL!

rafa sits at 22 but trails novak in weeks at #1 and masters titles i think. Rafa i feel needs to end his career with 1 slam ahead of novak to be in converstion, if not, he’s automatic 3rd in list. Rafa needs politics and governments to help him, as they did at AO.. he may get their help at USO this year and AO next year… that’s what he needs to stay in front of djokovic, countries and governments to help him stop nole.

 

[Kieran]

Hehe

feel worse for roger, novak may erase all his records - slams, weeks at #1 and maybe, MAYBE even 8 wimbledon titles. BRUTAL!

rafa sits at 22 but trails novak on weeks at #1 and masters titles i think. Rafa i feel neess to ned his career with 1 slam ahead of novak to be in converstion, if not, he’s automatic 3rd in list. Rafa needs politics and governments to help him, as they did at AO.. he may get their help at USO and AO next year… that’s what he needs to up djokovic, countries and governments to help him stop nole.

Rafa has won 4 of the last 8 US Opens he’s entered. He doesn’t need help to beat Novak there - or anywhere, for that matter…

 

[Moxie]

Not quite as neat and wrapped up in a bow as you make it out to be. I totally agree that Novak made his own bed when it came to not getting vaccinated, BUT===as you recall, he WAS granted a visa to come in, and then the minister reversed it. because it looked bad that "special treatment" was given to Djokovic, who was let in for having very recently recovered from COVID. And then to put him in a detention hotel while he awaited an appeal. It was NOT handled "cleanly" by those involved. Could Novak has avoided the whole episode by having gotten vaccinated? Yes! But under the circumstances, it was a sloppy affair at best.
As to your comments about Novak's bad personality, that's quite subjective. Of course he's far more emotive on court than Roger or Rafa ever were. But many don't buy Rafa's "Im a humble saint routine". His tactics might be more subtle than Novak's, but the slowdown of play during an opponent's serve, inopportune bathroom breaks, claiming "injury" on many occasions and then running like a gazelle, calling an opponent up to the net to have a chat which threw the opponent off (NOT proper protocol during a match) as he did this Wimbledon, etc. And those are just off the top of my head. NO ONE is a saint---so let's not let our player preferences turn us blind to other top players' shenanigans.

Hey, you're back!

I'm not going to re-litigate the entire AO affair with you here. Basically everyone here agrees that there was mess on both sides. However, I was responding to Mike's claim that Novak was "cheated out" of the AO, which I took to mean the title, as he was calling today's win a restoration of order. Otherwise, "order was restored" when Novak played at RG. What happened to Novak in Oz merely prevented him from defending his title, but there is no guaranteeing he'd have won 7 matches there, had he played.

As to Novak as bad boy, again, I was responding specifically to Mike saying that it is because he refuses to be vaccinated. I simply gave other reasons people find him to be a "villain." Even the NYT called him that in yesterday's headline. Of course it is subjective. But the perception is widely held. I was responding to specific points that Mike made. You would do well to read more carefully.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa has won 4 of the last 8 US Opens he’s entered. He doesn’t need help to beat Novak there - or anywhere, for that matter…

Actually the USO is Novak's worst grand slam, compared to AO and Wimbledon.

 

[Kieran]

Actually the USO is Novak's worst grand slam, compared to AO and Wimbledon.

Actually, he holds the record there - SIX losses in the final…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Actually, he holds the record there - SIX losses in the final…

I didnt want to be soo cruel

 

[MikeOne]

Different days, bro, you know this. The tour was made up of dirtballers and grasscourters. They were miles apart. So much so that Sampras switched from a two hander to a single handed backhand because he knew he wouldn’t win Wimbledon otherwise. The game changed and rewarded the monocultural style that suits baseliners.

Plus there are genuine questions to be asked about the gutless field, certainly when compared to the field in the 80’s and 90’s..

people need to remember borg was dominant on fast grass for 5 years and connors won wimbledon, so did agassi. Even courier, lendl were making finals. Novak is better than all these guys, heck, put novak in 80s, 90s.. and you never know.. could’ve won many wimbledons… if borg could win 5, novak is simply better…

federer was asked about speed of grass and he called it BS, said grass was still fast. The issue is that with better technology and better athletes, it has helped baseliners return and neutralize serves. I can see nadal, djokivic wreaking havoc in 80s and 90s… borg did and he wasn’t as good.. connors was nowhere near as good as rafa or nole either, he won wimbledon. Courier even made finals? Lol

 

[TheSicilian]

These people, i tell ya.. they act as if they are better people than djokovic. I questuon whether any of these people have the character, work ethic, integrity, discipline novak has.. their trolling is nothing more than being fanboys of fedal and hating how novak is closing in on all records… i remember some fed fans accused rafa of all sorts of things back when rafa was challenging ‘the god’ roger.. rafa was accused of cheating via getting coached by his uncle during matches (probably true), using gamesmanship by stalling points and faking injury.. he was dragged through the mud by fed fans and now rafa fans have sinked to same lows with djokovic.

now same with novak and all comes from fanboy denial… never in their wildest dreams would fedal fans ever thought novak would get to 21 and break weeks at #1.. before they attacked his game, now that they can’t, it’s that he’s a bad dude… what has djokovic done? Show some emotions on court? Lol… and refuse to take vaccine? That’s it?? They ignore all the good, focus on a few flaws and blow out of proportion. All comes down to fanboys being fanboys and projecting, probably their own flaws into djokovic.

Discipline

 

[Kieran]

people need to remember borg was dominant on fast grass for 5 years and connors won wimbledon, so did agassi. Even courier, lendl were making finals. Novak is better than all these guys, heck, put novak in 80s, 90s.. and you never know.. could’ve won many wimbledons… if borg could win 5, novak is simply better…

federer was asked about speed of grass and he called it BS, said grass was still fast. The issue is that with better technology and better athletes, it has helped baseliners return and neutralize serves. I can see nadal, djokivic wreakinf havoc in 80s and 90s… borg did and he wasn’t as good.. connors was nowhere near as good as rafa or nole either, he won wimbledon.

Borg dominated on grass in a hiatus between great grasscourters. His biggest rival for the first 4 of those years was Connors, and it wasn’t until the next grasscourt, serve-volley maestro McEnroe began to reach his peak in the early 80’s that bjorn knew that the game had changed.

As for technology changes, grass changes etc, they’ve aided the modern game but there’s no guarantee that modern players would have been as effective in the 70’s or 80’s. If they grew up in the culture, maybe - but that goes both ways. Players from “back then” growing up in the modern culture might also be able to achieved the great things players today achieve.

We’ll never know. In some respects, the great champions are products of a tennis version of evolution, and they’re particular to their contemporary circumstances, but this doesn’t mean they’d be great in all eras, and under all conditions…

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Thar wasnt my point at all

I really wish Carol’s post was in the reply too. It was more in response to hers in which you replied.

 

[Front242]

Slow grass yet nick seems to be a god on grass and suck on clay… same for many others… and all those aces flying around. Where’s norrie on clay?

sampras was my favourite player but agassi once took him to 5 and djokovic is superior to agassi in almost every category, including basline game and way superior on return.

Nick served like a machine today, in fact ala sampras in his heyday - 30 aces, 130mph first serve avg, 110+ second serve avg, this is eerily similiar to sampras stats and novak handled the serve quite well, putting so many in play. I don’t like sampras on baseline exhanges with djikovic, heck even federer seemed at a disadvantage vs djokovic on grass from baseline. Federer also had a similar game to pete and lost in 3 finals to novak. Would’ve been an interesting match for sure..

as far as goat on grass… i said IF he gets 8.. right now i’d say fed-sampras-nole

How old was Federer again last time he held 2 match points against the 6 year younger Djokovic at Wimbledon 2019 ? Almost 38! That says a lot.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Actually the USO is Novak's worst grand slam, compared to AO and Wimbledon.

It’s genuinely shocking to me too given his general hard court acumen.