2022 Wimbledon F: Djokovic vs. Kyrgios

[Moxie]

He probably spend a few grand on a ticket to get in - why not spend that on a flight to China and protest there? Seriously, what’s the point of doing this at Wimbledon? He gets attention for himself and…?

Honestly, an on-line campaign would do more. I'm not against the sentiment, but don't agree with the approach.

 

[MikeOne]

Let’s see what more neutral fans think of novak to contrast the fedal fanboys:

Some of the comments posted:



‘Fantastic honest responses from Novak....such a strong admirable mental strength by him today...an amazing champion...’

‘Mentally the toughest on-court, and the most loving heart off of it. They don't make a lot of people like him anymore’

‘I've grown to really respect and appreciate Novak. For a while, I viewed him as a sort of antihero in the era of Fedal, but he's a true champion with nerves of steel and a big heart. Well done, ND!’

And these are just the first 3 comments i see of the hundreds of comments, i didn’t even have to nitpick.

shows what a difference between more neutral bystanders vs fedal fanboys, they nasty.. ‘djokovic cheater, liar, bad personality, horrible embassador’ = fedal angrybois and angrygals

 

[Kieran]

Let’s see what more neutral fans think of novak to contrast the fedal fanboys:

Some of the comments posted:



‘Fantastic honest responses from Novak....such a strong admirable mental strength by him today...an amazing champion...’

‘Mentally the toughest on-court, and the most loving heart off of it. They don't make a lot of people like him anymore’

‘I've grown to really respect and appreciate Novak. For a while, I viewed him as a sort of antihero in the era of Fedal, but he's a true champion with nerves of steel and a big heart. Well done, ND!’

And these are just the first 3 comments i see of the hundreds of comments, i didn’t even have to nitpick.

shows what a difference between more neutral bystanders vs fedal fanboys, they nasty.. ‘djokovic cheater, liar, bad personality, horrible embassador’ = fedal angrybois and angrygals

You use the word “fanboy” a lot and yet you sound like a fanboy yourself. Funny, innit?

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Let’s see what more neutral fans think of novak to contrast the fedal fanboys:

Some of the comments posted:



‘Fantastic honest responses from Novak....such a strong admirable mental strength by him today...an amazing champion...’

‘Mentally the toughest on-court, and the most loving heart off of it. They don't make a lot of people like him anymore’

‘I've grown to really respect and appreciate Novak. For a while, I viewed him as a sort of antihero in the era of Fedal, but he's a true champion with nerves of steel and a big heart. Well done, ND!’

And these are just the first 3 comments i see of the hundreds of comments, i didn’t even have to nitpick.

shows what a difference between more neutral bystanders vs fedal fanboys, they nasty.. ‘djokovic cheater, liar, bad personality, horrible embassador’ = fedal angrybois and angrygals

I don’t think anyone is questioning Djokovic’s tennis. Djokovic is a terrific tennis player. I think where there is a grey area is some of his choices. I think he is a great tennis player, and he is a great point constructor and has all of the shots, but he still does some questionable things that I don’t like. When he does things that I feel cross a line or just aren’t sound, then I’m going to say it.

 

[Moxie]

Let’s see what more neutral fans think of novak to contrast the fedal fanboys:

Some of the comments posted:



‘Fantastic honest responses from Novak....such a strong admirable mental strength by him today...an amazing champion...’

‘Mentally the toughest on-court, and the most loving heart off of it. They don't make a lot of people like him anymore’

‘I've grown to really respect and appreciate Novak. For a while, I viewed him as a sort of antihero in the era of Fedal, but he's a true champion with nerves of steel and a big heart. Well done, ND!’

And these are just the first 3 comments i see of the hundreds of comments, i didn’t even have to nitpick.

shows what a difference between more neutral bystanders vs fedal fanboys, they nasty.. ‘djokovic cheater, liar, bad personality, horrible embassador’ = fedal angrybois and angrygals

And what makes you so sure that those comments are from neutral parties? Did they give you their bone fides as to neutrality? Were all of their usernames "ImneutralinFedalWars?" You're sort of hilarious when it comes to believing what you want to believe.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Hey Mikeone, where did you go when Nadal beat Djokovic at RG? Also, why was Djokovic overconfident going into that match against the King of Clay?

 

[MikeOne]

I don’t think anyone is questioning Djokovic’s tennis. Djokovic is a terrific tennis player. I think where there is a grey area is some of his choices. I think he is a great tennis player, and he is a great point constructor and has all of the shots, but he still does some questionable things that I don’t like. When he does things that I feel cross a line or just aren’t sound, then I’m going to say it.

i was posting a link showing how many fans compliment him, as a person, and it’s plentiful. Nice to see as he is, IMO a great person and a great champion. Without question, a lot of the criticism of him comes from people who just have a problem with him surpassing fedal’s achievements.. little to do with who he is as a person. Fed fans used to treat nadal in similar manner years ago by accusing him of cheating (coaching during match), gamesmanship and more. In the end, novak is a great champion who is his own person and he doesn’t have to do what everyone tells him to do in order to gain acceptance.

 

[roberto]

Hey, you're back!

I'm not going to re-litigate the entire AO affair with you here. Basically everyone here agrees that there was mess on both sides. However, I was responding to Mike's claim that Novak was "cheated out" of the AO, which I took to mean the title, as he was calling today's win a restoration of order. Otherwise, "order was restored" when Novak played at RG. What happened to Novak in Oz merely prevented him from defending his title, but there is no guaranteeing he'd have won 7 matches there, had he played.

As to Novak as bad boy, again, I was responding specifically to Mike saying that it is because he refuses to be vaccinated. I simply gave other reasons people find him to be a "villain." Even the NYT called him that in yesterday's headline. Of course it is subjective. But the perception is widely held. I was responding to specific points that Mike made. You would do well to read more carefully.

I DID re-read the posts and I think it it you who needs to put on the specs dear. Putting him in detention after he received a visa and the mess that ensued did a number on him from which it has been difficult to recover. He's been honest about that, and many pundits are amazed that he has come back to this level after what he went thru. And cheated might be hyperbole, but given that he's won it 9 times and was the heavy favorite....not necessarily not the case either. Of course I understand why you would not want someone to assume that it was almost automatic for Novak to have won Australia because the next logical extension of the point would be---horrors!---that Rafa's road to the final was aided by Novak's absence !
As to the villain comments, you did not phrase them as if those were what OTHER folks might think--they came off sounding like they were your beliefs as well. And that's why I pointed out that the media loves to buy the "nice guy gracious competitor" image of Rafa when objective observers know that he engages in gamesmanship a plenty! Which doesn't mean he's not a nice guy----just that it's more complicated. I don't like some of the things that Novak has done and am happy to admit it......

 

[Moxie]

I DID re-read the posts and I think it it you who needs to put on the specs dear. Putting him in detention after he received a visa and the mess that ensued did a number on him from which it has been difficult to recover. He's been honest about that, and many pundits are amazed that he has come back to this level after what he went thru.

He's a professional athlete. He came back from a mess of his own making. It's not really that astonishing that he has a high level by now. Took him a while, but he got there. He is, let's face it, a great tennis player, and ATG.

And cheated might be hyperbole, but given that he's won it 9 times and was the heavy favorite....not necessarily not the case either.

"Cheated" IS hyperbole. I don't care how heavily-favored he was. You can't count on 7 matches that didn't happen. Given what he was up against, it's highly unlikely he would have won the tournament, even if he'd been allowed to play.

As to the villain comments, you did not phrase them as if those were what OTHER folks might think--they came off sounding like they were your beliefs as well. And that's why I pointed out that the media loves to buy the "nice guy gracious competitor" image of Rafa when objective observers know that he engages in gamesmanship a plenty! Which doesn't mean he's not a nice guy----just that it's more complicated. I don't like some of the things that Novak has done and am happy to admit it......

I think I did phrase them well enough to say they were not mine alone. I did, however cop to the fact that they were mine. I fully know that there have been slags on Rafa and Roger, in the past, but they really don't stick as hard, for a reason. Good on you for admitting that you're not all-in with everything Novak has done.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I didn’t realize that a player who has put in detention due to visa problems (both sides are fault) made it difficult for him (sarcasm).

If that’s case then Medvedev also had a hard time too because he lost a two set lead at GS Final, got an injury and minor surgery AND a country’s government banned him from competing at one of the slams due to his nationality (not Medvedev’s choice or fault).

Berrettini is another player that got a hard time. Got a wrist injury after playing well at AO, couldn’t play IW/Miami and the whole Clay season due to the same injury. Won two Grass tune-ups, then got COVID and had to withdraw from Wimbledon. Now that’s TOUGH LUCK!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I didn’t realize that a player who has put in detention due to visa problems (both sides are fault) made it difficult for him (sarcasm).

If that’s case then Medvedev also had a hard time too because he lost a two set lead at GS Final, got an injury and minor surgery AND a country’s government banned him from competing at one of the slams due to his nationality (not Medvedev’s choice or fault).

Berrettini is another player that got a hard time. Got a wrist injury after playing well at AO, couldn’t play IW/Miami and the whole Clay season due to the same injury. Won two Grass tune-ups, then got COVID and had to withdraw from Wimbledon. Now that’s TOUGH LUCK!

I think we can also add Cilic, who isnt a bad grass court player, also got COVID and was also forced to withdraw at Wimbledon.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I think we can also add Cilic, who isnt a bad grass court player, also got COVID and was also forced to withdraw at Wimbledon.

Yeah, but I was talking more about Medvedev and Berrettini’s hardships comparing them to Djokovic’s “hardships” in 2022

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Yeah, but I was talking more about Medvedev and Berrettini’s hardships comparing them to Djokovic’s “hardships” in 2022

I realize that., though these so called 'hard ships' for Novak in 2022, he has brought on himself.He refuses to get vaccinated, that is his choice, he has to understand, and respect, to enter some countries their vaccinated laws are firm.

 

[Moxie]

I realize that., though these so called 'hard ships' for Novak in 2022, he has brought on himself.He refuses to get vaccinated, that is his choice, he has to understand, and respect, to enter some countries their vaccinated laws are firm.

I'm with you, MM. If we're going to talk about "hardships," Cilic was having a nice grass season, one where he has done well, and then he got Covid. Still wondering who was the Typhoid Mary in that dinner party. But to @rafanoy1992's point, some players have been rather more hard-done by than Novak, specifically because it wasn't of their own making. (Except for Medvedev dropping a 2-0 lead in the Major final...that's on him.)

 

[rafanoy1992]

I'm with you, MM. If we're going to talk about "hardships," Cilic was having a nice grass season, one where he has done well, and then he got Covid. Still wondering who was the Typhoid Mary in that dinner party. But to @rafanoy1992's point, some players have been rather more hard-done by than Novak, specifically because it wasn't of their own making. (Except for Medvedev dropping a 2-0 lead in the Major final...that's on him.)

Regarding about the 2-0 lead in a Major final, yes, that's on him, but it is still a harder hardship than what Djokovic experienced at Australia this year.

 

[Moxie]

Regarding about the 2-0 lead in a Major final, yes, that's on him, but it is still a harder hardship than what Djokovic experienced at Australia this year.

I just don't find them equivalent. Medvedev played, played his best or not, and lost, but he played the tournament. Not a hardship, just a hard loss to bear. And look at all the other hardships you cite in terms of Meddie, Berrettini, Cilic: injury, covid, and being Russian. In terms of all of those, who had control over his own destiny? Only Novak, and in terms of playing the AO. If you're injured, you're injured, if you're sick you're sick. If you're Russian, according to Wimbledon, you're out. Only Djokovic had control of his own destiny, and he chose hubris.

To be clear, I know you were being ironic about Djokovic's "hardships," I think. I just was trying to put them all in context.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I just don't find them equivalent. Medvedev played, played his best or not, and lost, but he played the tournament. Not a hardship, just a hard loss to bear. And look at all the other hardships you cite in terms of Meddie, Berrettini, Cilic: injury, covid, and being Russian. In terms of all of those, who had control over his own destiny? Only Novak, and in terms of playing the AO. If you're injured, you're injured, if you're sick you're sick. If you're Russian, according to Wimbledon, you're out. Only Djokovic had control of his own destiny, and he chose hubris.

That’s what I am saying about posters (we know who are they) saying that Djokovic had it hard due to his own decision. I am just saying that is probably harder for Medvedev to lose the final after leading two sets love up than Djokovic being detained due to his decision.

Yes, Medvedev had control on his racket to win the match but it probably stings more to him losing than Djokovic’s actions.

Whether it is considered hardship or not, it probably affects more Medvedev than Djokovic, in my opinion.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Here’s what I am saying Djokovic having a very “tough” year.

if that was considered a very “tough” year, I want to know how would they describe Medvedev’s and Berrettini’s season so far.

Heck, let’s put in Zverev’s season too.

 

[Moxie]

That’s what I am saying about posters (we know who are they) saying that Djokovic had it hard due to his own decision. I am just saying that is probably harder for Medvedev to lose the final after leading two sets love up than Djokovic being detained due to his decision.

Yes, Medvedev had control on his racket to win the match but it probably stings more to him losing than Djokovic’s actions.

This is such an interesting perspective, and I didn't get it at first. Rather subtle, and one that most have missed. Or, anyway, I did. Thanks for re-explaining. What stings is what you actively lost, not what you theoretically lost.

 

[Front242]

people need to remember borg was dominant on fast grass for 5 years and connors won wimbledon, so did agassi. Even courier, lendl were making finals. Novak is better than all these guys, heck, put novak in 80s, 90s.. and you never know.. could’ve won many wimbledons… if borg could win 5, novak is simply better…

federer was asked about speed of grass and he called it BS, said grass was still fast. The issue is that with better technology and better athletes, it has helped baseliners return and neutralize serves. I can see nadal, djokivic wreaking havoc in 80s and 90s… borg did and he wasn’t as good.. connors was nowhere near as good as rafa or nole either, he won wimbledon. Courier even made finals? Lol

Can't remember Borg leaving the court for a 7 minute shit break with a bag full of goodies that no one ever questions. Things were much better back then in that regard.