2020 French Open Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Rafael Nadal

[Moxie]

This family-point is a version I never heard about, because it’s gossip and I’m not looking for that. Everyone as he likes I guess.
Tolerance is an important gift.
I’m not allowed to answer you the way I want.
So let’s end this shit.
We have clearly different views on nadal.


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The point I made isn't gossip. It's what Rafa himself says. If you didn't know that, then you're the one trading in gossip and innuendo.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Bonaca
calitennis127
Moxie

 

[Bonaca]

The point I made isn't gossip. It's what Rafa himself says. If you didn't know that, then you're the one trading in gossip and innuendo.

It fits if truthfully meant. Hope it’s not just an excuse, would be horrible if waiting too long and not reaching the goals he lives for.
He needs his unreal focus , I can imagine there is no room for kids/family under these Nadal-circumstances.


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[Nadalfan2013]

It fits if truthfully meant. Hope it’s not just an excuse, would be horrible if waiting too long and not reaching the goals he lives for.
He needs his unreal focus , I can imagine there is no room for kids/family under these Nadal-circumstances.


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Don't worry about Nadal he looks the happiest out of all of the players both on and off the court.

 

[Moxie]

It fits if truthfully meant. Hope it’s not just an excuse, would be horrible if waiting too long and not reaching the goals he lives for.
He needs his unreal focus , I can imagine there is no room for kids/family under these Nadal-circumstances.


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Excuse for what? For a guy who insists he's not interested in the personal, you're suddenly trading in it in a big way. I'm sorry that your guy lost a big match, and grotesquely, but you keep reaching for reasons to tell off Nadal because of it: he's no more than a backboard with fast legs; he does no more than wait for others to make errors; and now you are concerned that he's not enough of a family man? You are reaching so hard to make Nadal into a bad guy that it's into the pathetic now. If I were to stoop so low, I could fight you on the "family values" issue. #Bollywood. Let's leave it at this: you were thinking that Novak would blow out Rafa once and for all in this final, and instead he got skunked. And you hate it. No amount of you spewing bile, trying to diminish Nadal's game, and making him out to be a poor sport will change that. You are being what you like to portray others as: a bitter fan. Stop being such a cry-baby. Take your lumps and come back when you're not so angry.

 

[Ricardo]

Focus and mentality absolute, it’s positive.
Dogged in an arrogant way is negative to me. I see this also in the fucking Austrian. I don’t like it, it takes greatness away.
I think his intelligence is overrated, it looks so because he can reach more balls and so at some point getting chance to construct and dictate points. Same for your point of mid-match adapting. All comes from his ability to bring back. Pushing the opponent to go more and more risk. Novak can go the rallies with him, even on chatrier, but wasn’t ready.
He is just focused/dogged while both of the others already reached other big goals like children, and tennis success. It shows something. I think it was said he is a family guy? It is a bit confusing, isn’t it?
But you are right , I really don’t care about personal life of them all.
I really mean this.
Beside all of this I respect you.


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This is clearly arsehole talk. Nadal beat the shit out of Djoker, get over with it. All this bs personal, you stoop down so low...clearly you are just a hole. What’s it to you he chooses to have kids or not? Get out of here.

 

[britbox]

No, I think it depends on the circumstance. Sometimes a 1-6 set can be moved past easily if a player is just working their way into the match and maybe made some sloppy unforced errors in a slow start (Djokovic actually did this in Rome in 2014 to win the final against Nadal). But in the case of a #1-ranked player who is essentially undefeated on the season losing a first set 6-0 in a Grand Slam final...... there is clearly a different kind of effect.

Also, are you seriously saying that in a match where, let’s say, a player had set point in the 3rd set and lost a tiebreak 12-10 they aren’t more likely to lose a blowout 4th set? How can you seriously argue that?

There is immense psychological carryover from one set to another because players are constantly thinking of the long-term and what their bodies can tolerate exertion-wise.



Not my point at all. My question was this: from a tactical/strategic point of view, would you as Djokovic’s coach have told him that there was simply nothing he could have done better in the final? Would you have told him there was no room for improvement?



Did you watch the end of the third set and how meager Djokovic’s serving was and how slow his pace was (excessive dribbling, etc.)? That is what I am referring to. During Djokovic’s win streaks of 2020, he has had more than his share of complicated 3-setters because of it.

One thing I like about Federer’s game in particular - and Nadal to a lesser degree - is that they don’t fiddle for 30 seconds plus with their serving routine. They step right up and hit the ball. And that is why they both have better serving rhythm than Djokovic does. It makes a huge difference in tense moments and big matches. It also demonstrates decisiveness and confidence, whereas Djokovic often looks reactive, as though he needs the other player to punch him in the face before he gets going.

It doesn't matter. It's a results business. You can't explain away 20 majors by luck or picking over random points in any given match.

 

[Bonaca]

Excuse for what? For a guy who insists he's not interested in the personal, you're suddenly trading in it in a big way. I'm sorry that your guy lost a big match, and grotesquely, but you keep reaching for reasons to tell off Nadal because of it: he's no more than a backboard with fast legs; he does no more than wait for others to make errors; and now you are concerned that he's not enough of a family man? You are reaching so hard to make Nadal into a bad guy that it's into the pathetic now. If I were to stoop so low, I could fight you on the "family values" issue. #Bollywood. Let's leave it at this: you were thinking that Novak would blow out Rafa once and for all in this final, and instead he got skunked. And you hate it. No amount of you spewing bile, trying to diminish Nadal's game, and making him out to be a poor sport will change that. You are being what you like to portray others as: a bitter fan. Stop being such a cry-baby. Take your lumps and come back when you're not so angry.

Not to this F , meant it in general.
You can be right, I’m not sure.
It can be interpreted both ways.
He is definitely the most dependent on the focus and hard work, just my opinion, we don’t need to discuss every different opinion?


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[Bonaca]

This is clearly arsehole talk. Nadal beat the shit out of Djoker, get over with it. All this bs personal, you stoop down so low...clearly you are just a hole. What’s it to you he chooses to have kids or not? Get out of here.

It could be explained to you, but I don’t want to waste that time. Maybe others will.
Read the posts before interrupting adult conversation.


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[Bonaca]

Excuse for what? For a guy who insists he's not interested in the personal, you're suddenly trading in it in a big way. I'm sorry that your guy lost a big match, and grotesquely, but you keep reaching for reasons to tell off Nadal because of it: he's no more than a backboard with fast legs; he does no more than wait for others to make errors; and now you are concerned that he's not enough of a family man? You are reaching so hard to make Nadal into a bad guy that it's into the pathetic now. If I were to stoop so low, I could fight you on the "family values" issue. #Bollywood. Let's leave it at this: you were thinking that Novak would blow out Rafa once and for all in this final, and instead he got skunked. And you hate it. No amount of you spewing bile, trying to diminish Nadal's game, and making him out to be a poor sport will change that. You are being what you like to portray others as: a bitter fan. Stop being such a cry-baby. Take your lumps and come back when you're not so angry.

No I mentioned it in a side-line.
You the one who bring it on bigger stage.
It is a significant difference between the 3.
Look what Roger and Novak achieved beside their tennis records, and what they do beside tennis!
You really can’t see this??
Why does this fact bother you so much?


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[Moxie]

No I mentioned it in a side-line.
You the one who bring it on bigger stage.
It is a significant difference between the 3.
Look what Roger and Novak achieved beside their tennis records, and what they do beside tennis!
You really can’t see this??
Why does this fact bother you so much?


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I only pointed out your hypocrisy of always insisting that you're not interested in the personal, only in the tennis. I wouldn't call it a significant difference between the 3, merely a fact of their personal lives. And it doesn't bother me, it bothers you, though, clearly. You've got nothing to say about why Novak turned in such a terrible performance, so you just look for ways to trash Nadal, and it really is pretty pathetic.

 

[Moxie]

"Don't look at Novak, look at Rafa" Legend explains Nadal dominance

"Rafa was doing things which he had not always done against Novak" is how Ivan Lendl has described the 13th French Open title for Rafa Nadal

tennishead.net

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

"Don't look at Novak, look at Rafa" Legend explains Nadal dominance

"Rafa was doing things which he had not always done against Novak" is how Ivan Lendl has described the 13th French Open title for Rafa Nadal

tennishead.net

I have to agree with Lendl.....Rafa's bhand was great in the final
Another question where was Novak's fhand....it was missing in the action.
Enough said....I am over talking about the final lets move on
Novak always gracious in defeat said Rafa was too good in the final! Amen!

 

[Moxie]

I have to agree with Lendl.....Rafa's bhand was great in the final
Another question where was Novak's fhand....it was missing in the action.
Enough said....I am over talking about the final lets move on
Novak always gracious in defeat said Rafa was too good in the final! Amen!

Agreed. I posted that because it had some actual analysis of the tennis, and what Rafa did that he doesn't usually do when playing Novak. A good way to bring it back to the tennis and not just a bunch of arguing nonsense with the bitterly disappointed. Though clearly, I'm not above that.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

 

[Andy22]

Nadal Also been the greatest 30s player in history winning the most majors in history 6, more than both djokovic and federer. its funny how fedheads talk about federer playing well at his age, but its Nadal whos been the best player in the 30s and even djokovic is better as well.

 

[Kieran]

"Don't look at Novak, look at Rafa" Legend explains Nadal dominance

"Rafa was doing things which he had not always done against Novak" is how Ivan Lendl has described the 13th French Open title for Rafa Nadal

tennishead.net

It’s perverse that anyone could look at Rafa winning the French and immediately think, yeah but his opponent had it on his racket from the start and blew it.

I love Lendl, a real tennis man, always worth a listen..

 

[Bonaca]

I only pointed out your hypocrisy of always insisting that you're not interested in the personal, only in the tennis. I wouldn't call it a significant difference between the 3, merely a fact of their personal lives. And it doesn't bother me, it bothers you, though, clearly. You've got nothing to say about why Novak turned in such a terrible performance, so you just look for ways to trash Nadal, and it really is pretty pathetic.

Again it was just a sideline notion from me, you are the one who make multiple posts out of it.
So who is bothered by it more my dear?
It is a huge difference between them look what Roger and Novak did beside playing tennis.
Nadal isn’t capable of that or just more egoistic.
Now finally you admit that Novak played terrible. That’s what Cali is talking about from the beginning, not only serving also overall game.
A few other posters mentioned that also no quality FH from Novak.


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[calitennis127]

What exactly is your point? In the 2006 final Federer won the first set 6-1 then still lost the next 3 sets.

Two totally different situations. In 2006, Federer was pretty good in the first set but Nadal was off and it was one of those scenarios where everyone had a sense that the match hadn't really kicked in to full gear yet. Federer was very good in that first set but from what I recall it wasn't anything amazing.

In 2011, on the other hand, Federer was playing quite possibly the best clay court tennis of his life at the 2011 French Open. His level in the semifinal against Djokovic was out-of-this world and it carried over into the start of the final against Nadal. Do you remember the shots he was hitting? I don't ever recall Federer playing that well on clay at any other time. You also can't discount how big a win he had over Djokovic, ending his undefeated streak even after Djokovic had just beaten Nadal in both Madrid and Rome.

So, two totally different situations. Federer played well in the first of the 2006 final but he didn't do anything spectacular. In 2011 Federer's level in that first set was ridiculous. In terms of level I can't ever recall seeing Federer play better on clay than he did in the semis and final of the 2011 French Open. The shotmaking was simply phenomenal.

 

[calitennis127]

No one needs a lesson in what serving well does for a player. What you neglect to comment upon, and no amount of prodding will bring it forth, is everything else Novak did wrong to lose that match. As I've said, his game isn't predicated on his serve alone, by a long shot.

IT'S NOT ABOUT EVERYTHING BEING PREDICATED ON THE SERVE ALONE. THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT.

The point is that the other aspects of your game are going to be much more suppressed and not as able to flourish when your opponent is serving a full 33% higher than you. This is what I always said about Nalbandian as well. No matter how good he was from the baseline, the truth is it is very hard to consistently overcome 50% or worse first serve days (and Nalbandian had a problem with double faults too, which Djokovic does not).

How are you going to take control of points if you're serving at 43% while your opponent is serving 76%? And if you don't take control of points, how are you going to develop confidence or rhythm in the match?

The point about bad first serving numbers is that they can hold back everything else that is great in your game. Believe me, I would know as a Nalbandian fan. That was his chief problem.

Once again, sorry, but you're always nattering on about sets and games in long matches. Even if Roger had won that first set, there is no assurance he'd have won the match. He's never even taken Nadal the distance at RG. You really stretch points beyond where they break. You're the guy that still thinks Medvedev lost the USO last year when he had Nadal "on the ropes." You are so far beyond reasonable tennis analysis when it comes to Nadal, and it's apparent to everyone.

No, Medvedev absolutely did have Nadal on the ropes. Nadal was wobbling around with his legs shaking, and he was also shocked that the match had extended as far as it had. Medvedev had all the momentum at the start of the 5th and pulled his punch. And ever since I told you that Medvedev has a serious mental problem when it comes to closing out matches, you have seen him lose matches repeatedly after having a lead (most notably at the World Tour Finals last year, which crystallized my point so clearly that you should have been able to see it).

Nadal was flailing at the start of the 5th and Medvedev simply did not deliver the knock-out blow. It was very similar to Djokovic in the 3rd set of the 2013 US Open final.