2020 French Open Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Rafael Nadal

[Front242]

will your right on Federer doing better than Djokovic today, I give you that, Also Nobody wanted you to leave even me so that's on you but sorry I guess, but you also did some big trolling as well against Nadal. Also Nadal winning Australian open 2021 without dropping a set as well, then RG again that do you think?

Nadal was great today. Focus on that instead of slagging the other 2 players (Federer and Djokovic). Just an idea....

Doubt very much Nadal is winning a hard court event without dropping a set.

 

[Kieran]

To be honest, it’s hard to gauge how well Nadal was really playing since he wasn’t tested (score-wise) until the 3rd set. This match never really got off its feet and that owed to Djokovic’s serving.

Oh brother, you're still analysing these things wrongly. Iron Mike Tyson had a phrase - everybody has a plan right up until they're punched in the face. Now, if an opponent gets punched in the face (metaphorically) and it scrambles his systems, is the bloke who punched him bound to step back until he recovers so that then he can claim, "I also got punched in the face - his best punch - so I won fair and square?"

Or does he follow up the first punch with a mauling?

You should credit Rafa for Novak's inability to handle the assault, and not look only at what Novak wasn't able to do. In the first game, Novak foolishly played 5 dropshots, and I think lost 3 points off them. That break wasn't down to his serve. After this, Rafa mauled him and Novak's serve was a casualty. I'll tell you how I gauge how well Rafa played: I watched the 1978 Wimbledon final, the 1984 Wimbledon final, the 1984 US Open final - we can go and on, Pete defeating Agassi at Wimbledon in 1999, Rafa beating Roger in Paris in 2008 - Rafa today was as great as any of these. In fact, he was probably better. given how great Novak is...

 

[calitennis127]

Moya, Diego, Fed, Novak, Ferrer, Thiem, Fabio and more have beaten Nadal on clay. In FO? Nadal has only lost twice before finals and against Soderling, he was not 100% physically and against Djokovic, in 15, Nadal was coming back from the abyss. In finals? 13-0? Do you think it's a coincidence that Theim fed, novak, ferrer and others have beaten Nadal on lesser tournaments but in FO final, they get beaten handily? Rafa is the greatest clay courter of all time and when he makes finals of RG, he more difficult to beat (exponentially) than in other tournaments. Nadal is not unbeatable but to beat him, is almost impossible, in RG final.

I disagree. Federer should have beaten him in both 2007 and 2011. In 2007, I think Federer failed to convert on 15 break points. In 2011, Federer was dominating Nadal for most of the first set and had set point up 5-2.

In 2014, Djokovic won the first set and had Nadal on the ropes at the end of the second but let up.

The closest i have seen Nadal los at his best was in 2013 semi-finals when Djokovic was at his very very best.... Nadal had to come up with something extra and he did, he started hitting unbelievable forehand winners, down the line and inside out... and edged Djokovic. Djokovic, was at his very best and still lost. The point is, everything has to go perfect - hitting big without missing, good tactics, variety, mental strength, defense and a bit of luck.

I agree that you have to play at a very high level but I don't think you need to be perfect. The fact is, Djokovic did not give himself a chance to get into the match today in sets 1 and 2 because his serving was so poor. Being the #1 player in the world he should do better than serve at 40% in the first set. He's not 19 years old anymore.

and in the 3rd set did you see how well Djokovic was hitting his groundstrokes, hard, deep....

Yes, it was the first time in the match that he was playing like he needed to. And he was in control of most of the points. But it should not have taken him 2 hours to finally get to that point.

That's the thing, if you are not at your best, you can lose 0,2.. at your best, still lose. That's Nadal., in RG final.

Djokovic wasn't even halfway near his best in the first two sets, and the main reason for that was his low first-serve percentage. I am not asking Djokovic to be other-worldly. I am just asking him to be reasonably normal in a big match. Serving at 40% in the first set is inexcusable.

Nadal has tremendous power and spin but his forehand is a type of shot that needs a little time... clay gives him that time. When he has that extra time, he can generate as much power and spin as anyone... Nadal can also hit many winners on grass and hardcourt, during his US wins, he has won them by hitting many winners... that is just a fact. But on clay cali, he has a bit of extra time to fully uncoil and extend his swing....

Some good points there, but if Nadal's offensive game was as good as you say, it wouldn't have taken him until 2010 to win the US Open. He became #2 in the world in 2005 and won his first French Open that year. The reason it took him so long after that to win his first hardcourt Slams is that his offensive game was limited on the other surfaces.

just spend a few mins checking this video out, this is insane... Busta is being toyed with here, the power of Nadal is too much. Have you seen nadal cali?

Yes, I saw him get straight-setted by Djokovic at Cincinatti in 2008. He lost the first set 6-1. That was one of the matches that caused me to really sour on his offensive abilities on hardcourts.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah definitely either physically not feeling it or mentally wanted to end points sooner but there are other ways to do it. I honestly doubt he was that physically drained 'cos the match against Tsitsipas wasn't really that intense. The 3 sets he won, he won easily.

His serving was crap today much of today but he could've mixed it up with body serves, even a bit of S&V. I thought he should have hit the ball very hard up the middle of the court more often to give Nadal less acute angles. Nadal was brilliant today in fairness and I can't stand him so I can't compliment much more than that. Much better today than 2008 final. Previously I'd thought Monte Caro 2010 against Verdasco where Verdacso won just 1 game was the best I've seen Nadal play on clay but much of today may well have been better. That said, Djokovic was also woeful for 2 sets.

Me old mucker! I agree about today and the 2008 final - that day Rafa just endlessly lopped the ball onto Federer's backhand, but today he was the complete all-court player, dominating Novak in every aspect of the game...

 

[the AntiPusher]

May I say Rafa hitting a lob over the BH side of Novak,who is right handed is just Unbelievable......back to watching the match

Margaret This was Rafa's 16th chapel and Picasso combined bin one masterpiece

The telling stat of the match

Novak UFE 52 in three sets of tennis on clay???? help me.I did not think that would happen.

Novak will play in Vienna starting October 24th.

As usual he is always gracious in defeat and Rafa was the superior player today.

This was Rafa's picasso this was his 16th Chapel.. better yet his ultimate masterpiece. I am going to watch again with cookies and a cold glass of Almonds milk.

 

[Kieran]

NBC showed this during the match:

View attachment 4165

The Phelps record is arguably the most impressive (i.e., unbreakable), since someone only gets a chance to improve on this every four years.

Phelps is the closest, both of them achieving a near invincibility that most likely will never be replicated...

 

[calitennis127]

Oh brother, you're still analysing these things wrongly. Iron Mike Tyson had a phrase - everybody has a plan right up until they're punched in the face. Now, if an opponent gets punched in the face (metaphorically) and it scrambles his systems, is the bloke who punched him bound to step back until he recovers so that then he can claim, "I also got punched in the face - his best punch - so I won fair and square?"

Or does he follow up the first punch with a mauling?

You should credit Rafa for Novak's inability to handle the assault, and not look only at what Novak wasn't able to do. In the first game, Novak foolishly played 5 dropshots, and I think lost 3 points off them. That break wasn't down to his serve. After this, Rafa mauled him and Novak's serve was a casualty. I'll tell you how I gauge how well Rafa played: I watched the 1978 Wimbledon final, the 1984 Wimbledon final, the 1984 US Open final - we can go and on, Pete defeating Agassi at Wimbledon in 1999, Rafa beating Roger in Paris in 2008 - Rafa today was as great as any of these. In fact, he was probably better. given how great Novak is...

But Djokovic's serving issues did not start with this match, so stop being so narcissistic as a Nadal fan. Djokovic has been having these issues for months, and they really came back to bite him against Tsitsipas. Are you going to say that Tsitsipas's comeback was all about Tsitsipas becoming Mike Tyson and Djokovic not being able to handle his punch? Maybe Djokovic's serving issues don't have to do with his opponents and simply have to do with himself.

All I am saying is that - regardless of Nadal's level and whether Djokovic's drop shots are being executed well - there is no excuse for the #1 player in the world to only make 40% of first serves in the first set of a Grand Slam final. Why is that a controversial position? And why do you want to put all the credit on Nadal for that?

If Djokovic was serving at 70% and Nadal still mauled him 6-0, that would be totally different. But that's not what happened.

 

[Kieran]

Margaret This was Rafa's 16th chapel and Picac
This was Rafa's picasso this was his 16th Chapel.. better yet his ultimate masterpiece. I am going to watch again with cookies and a cold glass of Almonds milk.

Why not his 20th chapel?

 

[Kieran]

But Djokovic's serving issues did not start with this match, so stop being so narcissistic as a Nadal fan. Djokovic has been having these issues for months, and they really came back to bite him against Tsitsipas. Are you going to say that Tsitsipas's comeback was all about Tsitsipas becoming Mike Tyson and Djokovic not being able to handle his punch? Maybe Djokovic's serving issues don't have to do with his opponents and simply have to do with himself.

All I am saying is that - regardless of Nadal's level and whether Djokovic's drop shots are being executed well - there is no excuse for the #1 player in the world to only make 40% of first serves in the first set of a Grand Slam final. Why is that a controversial position? And why do you want to put all the credit on Nadal for that?

If Djokovic was serving at 70% and Nadal still mauled him 6-0, that would be totally different. But that's not what happened.

Actually, against Tsitsipas Novak was rolling through his service games and Stefanos was struggling with so many break points against him in the third and fourt (and fifth) sets. Novak was winning his games easily - except when he tightened at the end of each set.

Say something wonderful about Rafa, I dare ya! Praise him, because he deserves it...

 

[Andy22]

Nadal was great today. Focus on that instead of slagging the other 2 players (Federer and Djokovic). Just an idea....

Doubt very much Nadal is winning a hard court event without dropping a set.

of course going to enjoy this Nadal win and stop slagging Djokovic he already got owned today, but you do know Nadal won Mexico open hard courts 500 without dropping a set this season? so his already won a hard court event without losing any sets.

 

[Kieran]

He will skip ATP Finals like he skipped US Open, knowing he most likely will not win.
He should also think about skipping AO 21 and use these 7 month to prepare for French Open 21 like he did this year.
Hope for upsets and disqualifications.
Would be damn smart.


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He skipped the US Open because it was too close to the FO, which now seems like a wise decision, but personally speaking, I'd have preferred he went to NYC. He would still most likely win Paris.

As for all the stuff about "upsets and disqualifications", I haven't a bloody clue what you're on about. Are you a Djoker fan, still whining about him being (rightly) turfed out of the USO?

 

[calitennis127]

Actually, against Tsitsipas Novak was rolling through his service games and Stefanos was struggling with so many break points against him in the third and fourt (and fifth) sets. Novak was winning his games easily - except when he tightened at the end of each set.

That is factually inaccurate. The announcers on Tennis Channel were constantly bringing up how many break points Tsitsipas had failed to convert in the first two sets, so no, Novak was not "rolling through his service games" in that match. As for the end-of-set scenarios you are talking about, Djokovic's serving becomes patchy any time he gets a little bit nervous. It is his main weakness.

Say something wonderful about Rafa, I dare ya! Praise him, because he deserves it...

He was well-prepared for this match today and he took full advantage of his opponent's off day, to his credit.

 

[Front242]

of course going to enjoy this Nadal win and stop slagging Djokovic he already got owned today, but you do know Nadal won Mexico open hard courts 500 without dropping a set this season? so his already won a hard court event without losing any sets.

You said AO 2021 lol. That's a 500 event you just mentioned not a slam.

 

[Kieran]

He was well-prepared for this match today and he took full advantage of his opponent's off day, to his credit.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said. I'm blushing...

 

[kskate2]

Dang. I wasn’t expecting that score line. What a beat down!

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[Andy22]

You said AO 2021 lol. That's a 500 event you just mentioned not a slam.

Yea I know it's big difference 500 from majors, but I believe Nadal can Australia open without dropping a set with the right draw.

 

[calitennis127]

That's the nicest thing you've ever said. I'm blushing...

No, I always credited Nadal's inside-out forehand and overall athleticism, quickness, physicality, stamina, etc. I also said that he does a great job of doing the little things to not beat himself, in contrast to other players. And today was a perfect example of that. While Djokovic was shooting himself in the foot with poor serving and ill-timed dropshots, Nadal was laser-focused to set the tone.

 

[Kieran]

No, I always credited Nadal's inside-out forehand and overall athleticism, quickness, physicality, stamina, etc. I also said that he does a great job of doing the little things to not beat himself, in contrast to other players. And today was a perfect example of that. While Djokovic was shooting himself in the foot with poor serving and ill-timed dropshots, Nadal was laser-focused to set the tone.

Here's Novak supporting what you said, not. He's very honest and gracious and he gives all the credit to Rafa, who "played perfect in the first two sets." You're missing the big picture here, brother, by thinking there are other reasons than himself for why Rafa won the way he did, today...

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal now leads Djokovic

13-1 RG titles
7-1 RG h2h

And our local expert Cali is still arguing that Djokovic should have won the match and Nadal didn’t do anything special?

 

[Bonaca]

He skipped the US Open because it was too close to the FO, which now seems like a wise decision, but personally speaking, I'd have preferred he went to NYC. He would still most likely win Paris.

As for all the stuff about "upsets and disqualifications", I haven't a bloody clue what you're on about. Are you a Djoker fan, still whining about him being (rightly) turfed out of the USO?

I’m not the only one who doubt Federer or Bull would have been treated like that.
Of course after knowing what happened it would be smarter for him to play us open he would have smashed the diva and today pass Federer.


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