2019 Men's Wimbledon Championships

[herios]

I don't even think he's 5'8". Did you see that handshake at the net? The guy is short. But he's tricky enough. I don't know if it can all be explained by nerves v. nothing-to-lose, but Fabbiano was very crafty and served well, from the little I saw. Stefanos should have turned it around, but couldn't. I'll still give him a pass on being young, with pressure that he hasn't seen, but it's still a bit shocking.

No, I have not seen anything, of that match, my channels did not show that one at all. That is why I am floored.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Why is on court coaching laughable?

I understand if you're against it, but laughable? Why is it laughable? It exists in soooooooo many sports that I really roll my eyes reading something like that.

So again, what's "laughable" about a coach...coaching?

Please find something less boring than "because it's supposed to be about the players figuring things out" as if a coach is swinging the racket for you or holding your nerves.

It is indeed crazy. Yes, of course, there is coaching available during the game in football, basketball etc. But, they are team sports. Show me a single individual sport in which mid-match coaching is available. I can't think of any at least off the top of my head. What next? Should we allow a chess player to consult a coach during the game? Is there mid-match coaching available in table-tennis? I don't think so, if you want an example from a sport that is not completely mental.

In individual sports, it is generally expected that one does everything oneself during the match, while one may avail all sorts of coaching and help outside the match.

 

[don_fabio]

I don't even think he's 5'8". Did you see that handshake at the net? The guy is short. But he's tricky enough. I don't know if it can all be explained by nerves v. nothing-to-lose, but Fabbiano was very crafty and served well, from the little I saw. Stefanos should have turned it around, but couldn't. I'll still give him a pass on being young, with pressure that he hasn't seen, but it's still a bit shocking.

I am also puzzled by his loss as Herios said, but yeah, clearly some nerves there combined with a drop in form. Clay season he played took some toll and the transfer from clay to grass not smooth either. Lack of matches on grass too, as tented pointed out. But still against Fabbiano, no one saw this coming. Karlovic maybe, but not the italian.

 

[Moxie]

No, I have not seen anything, if that match, my channels did not show that one at all. That is why I am floored.

I only saw the late part, so I can't speak to why Fabbiano got up such a big head of steam. Late in the 4th, I thought Tsitsipas might get it to a 5th, and right the ship. But Fabbiano, from what I saw, is like a grass version of Schwartzman, in that he's figured out how to make the most of his gifts to compensate for size. Movement is very good. Very bold. What I saw, he served very well. Stefanos had all the pressure, and it seems like Fabbiano made the most of his opportunity.

 

[Moxie]

It is indeed crazy. Yes, of course, there is coaching available during the game in football, basketball etc. But, they are team sports. Show me a single individual sport in which mid-match coaching is available. I can't think of any at least off the top of my head. What next? Should we allow a chess player to consult a coach during the game? Is there mid-match coaching available in table-tennis? I don't think so, if you want an example from a sport that is not completely mental.

In individual sports, it is generally expected that one does everything oneself during the match, while one may avail all sorts of coaching and help outside the match.

Just a thought, but isn't a caddy a type of coach in golf? They make club decisions together, and at least it's someone to talk to as you get through it.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just a thought, but isn't a caddy a type of coach in golf?

I don't think so. Caddy for golfers is equivalent of coffee boy for a CEO, I guess.

 

[Moxie]

I am also puzzled by his loss as Herios said, but yeah, clearly some nerves there combined with a drop in form. Clay season he played took some toll and the transfer from clay to grass not smooth either. Lack of matches on grass too, as tented pointed out. But still against Fabbiano, no one saw this coming. Karlovic maybe, but not the italian.

Someone above said that Karlovic should be too much for the Italian to handle in the next round. I disagree with that. I'd actually favor Fabbiano, from what I saw today.

 

[Moxie]

I don't think so. Caddy for golfers is equivalent of coffee boy for a CEO, I guess.

I don't think that's true. A good caddy has opinions as to what club to select. And it's not like a golfer just lets anyone be his caddy. At the very least, the golfer DOES have someone to talk to.

 

[kskate2]

Just a thought, but isn't a caddy a type of coach in golf? They make club decisions together, and at least it's someone to talk to as you get through it.

Most definitely. The caddy makes suggestions on what club to use in proportion to the wind and the placement of the hole, bunkers, water, trees and other obstacles. Ultimately it's the player's decision on what club to play and executing the shot, but the caddy plays an integral part in those decisions.

 

[kskate2]

I don't think so. Caddy for golfers is equivalent of coffee boy for a CEO, I guess.

Not even close. A caddy shares in the win his player obtains. A really good caddy will get a portion of the player's winnings as a bonus.

 

[kskate2]

Wimbledon Results for Round 1 Day 1 - Monday, July 1, 2019

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Not even close. A caddy shares in the win his player obtains. A really good caddy will get a portion of the player's winnings as a bonus.

OK. I really don't know much about golf (and also don't care) and have never played it even once. If you all say otherwise, I agree with that. I knew just talking to another human being (especially a personal friend or well wisher) would help to take some pressure off and I thought that was the only way the caddy can help other than doing menial tasks. I did not know that the caddy actually selects clubs and also I did not know that the caddy shares a bonus.

 

[El Dude]

Is that you Zed?!

After losing today, Zverev is pretty fucking far from OK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moxie]

Informed and accurate post. The counter tickets are either only available at the venue or are limited. In either case highly subsidized. The true ticket price of the Gentlemen's QF/SF/F each is about thrice the corresponding ticket price of Ladies'. And these aren't even resale values.

https://www.wimbledondebentureholders.com/buy-wimbledon-tickets

It's not just star power because at this stage, it is not yet guaranteed that all of the big 3 will make it into QF and later. The prices for men's QF/SF/F matches are, today, already thrice the price of the ladies. But the real money is in the TV rights. I don't have those numbers.

I don't care if the gentlemen subsidize the ladies. That is Wimbledon's business and the players' business. Although one product makes more money for it, Wimbledon must successfully sell both products as one package. The ladies have the business savvy to negotiate a good deal. Good for them. These are business decisions. To frame it as an equal pay issue is like demanding that male models be paid the same as female models. Last I heard there is a 50% 'pay gap' which, of course, is a dishonest way to frame the issue.

You did such a good job of even-handedness, right up until the end. As you say, it's Wimbledon's business, and the players' business. What do we care, if it's not our money. But you say it shouldn't be framed as an equal pay issue, and I'm not sure why you say that. The women are paid equally. So you're extrapolating to other metier...just to make sure that no one thinks you're in favor of equal pay? I'm not sure what point you're making with male models, and I haven't investigated the pay gap with female ones, but you have to admit it's an outlier choice to use as an example. Which is a bit like cheating. Do you have another example of where women make more money than men, across the board? Especially one that doesn't exploit good looks and sex appeal? Chefs? No. Music industry? Even with Beyoncè and Lady Gaga, I think no. Film/TV industry? No. CEOs? No. I could go on, but if you can think of some other industry where men are hugely down in the pay-gap, I'd hear it. Otherwise, as I quoted you in the bolded above, it's a dishonest way to frame the issue.

Firstly, we all know that women get paid 49 cents on the dollar to men's pay, in the US as of 2018. What we're talking about is the more rarified occupations, and the people at the top of them. Come up with a better example than male models and I'll be interested to hear what you have to say.

 

[kskate2]

Wimbledon Order of Play for Round 1 Tuesday, July 2, 2019

 

[Moxie]

OK. I really don't know much about golf (and also don't care) and have never played it even once. If you all say otherwise, I agree with that. I knew just talking to another human being (especially a personal friend or well wisher) would help to take some pressure off and I thought that was the only way the caddy can help other than doing menial tasks. I did not know that the caddy actually selects clubs and also I did not know that the caddy shares a bonus.

Whatever you didn't know about golf before, and know now, you understand that there IS an individual sport that has coaching along the way. To broken's point.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Whatever you didn't know about golf before, and know now, you understand that there IS an individual sport that has coaching along the way. To broken's point.

Not quite. I would not call golf a sport. To me a sport has to involve an opponent who is actively working against you.

In golf the other players are not actively working against you (at least from whatever little I know of it). Everybody tries
to do their best and whoever has better score wins. Is that right?

 

[MartyB]

I only saw the late part, so I can't speak to why Fabbiano got up such a big head of steam. Late in the 4th, I thought Tsitsipas might get it to a 5th, and right the ship. But Fabbiano, from what I saw, is like a grass version of Schwartzman, in that he's figured out how to make the most of his gifts to compensate for size. Movement is very good. Very bold. What I saw, he served very well. Stefanos had all the pressure, and it seems like Fabbiano made the most of his opportunity.

Watching Djokovic today Tsitsipas Zverev revealed that on grass he would have beat them soundly. On paper those guys were "potential " threats but really weren't.

 

[Moxie]

Not quite. I would not call golf a sport. To me a sport has to involve an opponent who is actively working against you.

In golf the other players are not actively working against you (at least from whatever little I know of it). Everybody tries
to do their best and whoever has better score wins. Is that right?

It's a big stretch not to call golf a "sport." Golf is a pretty big deal. And if you ever watched it, you'd realize that they go out in couples, which change based on the rounds, to put the best together, in the way of seedings in tennis. So that they are playing next to each other, and by round, the most competitive are increasingly playing together in a pair. While they don't hit the ball "at" each other, they are standing together facing the stress of the other's fine or poor hits or lies. And they know where each other stands, in terms of par on each hole, and the standings. So you are wrong, I think, to say that it's just a bunch of golfers playing the course against par. They really do play against each other in the big moments. You really should watch one of the last rounds of a golf Major. Then you'd get it better.

 

[Moxie]

Watching Djokovic today Tsitsipas Zverev revealed that on grass he would have beat them soundly. On paper those guys were "potential " threats but really weren't.

I take your point, but if they'd gotten out of the first round, particularly Tsitsipas, I think he could have been a threat. These guys are young, Djokovic is seasoned. All of the big players say that all they want to do is get past the first round, at a Major. The youngsters failed the test.