2019 Men’s Wimbledon SF: Roger Federer vs. Rafael Nadal

[Moxie]

I am on night shift at the hospital....I am trying to find someone that will swap with me,sad to say I do not work with tennis addicts I will be up for the women's final.

So Djokovic/RBA starts for you guys at like 10pm? And then, depending on how it goes...from there?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

So Djokovic/RBA starts for you guys at like 10pm? And then, depending on how it goes...from there?

Yes.....I am usually a 'walking zombie' the next day....for the finals matches start at 11.00pm.I usually take a nap at 7.00pm and wake up at either 10pm or 11pm...........depending on the length of matches........lots of black strong coffee.

 

[MikeOne]

No one underestimates his game on this "grass" which of course on the other hand has played a big part in Roger doing pretty poorly at Wimbledon over the past 10+ years.

the slowing of the court has been greatly exaggerated by people.. The evidence isn't that clear. It's even more exaggerated by those who want to belittle Nadal's game (ah... he's 1 dimensional, only doing well on grass as grass is clay now etc..)

Let' analyze.

Borg did pretty well in the super fast grass didn't he? A baseliner. He dominated for years.. Jimmy Connors did pretty well on grass too.

During 90s, an era people allude to as 'the super fast grass'. base liners weren't exactly struggling on grass. Super grinder Courier made finals, super baseliner Malivai Washington made finals. Agassi won it one year and made finals of another year.

Yes, there were more S&Vers back then but base liners have benefited more from technology. Edberg, Rafter, Becker, Sampras would have a harder time coming to net against today's base liners, no matter how fast surface is. S&V is difficult, requires more skill and harder against returners with better tech...

If Agassi, Malivai Washington, Connors, Borg, Courier could do well on grass, Nadal and Djokovic would be HELL in 80s and 90s, especially with today's tech.

btw, i remember when Hewitt won Wimbledon, against Nalbandian, the experts claimed 'grass has slowed', this was all the way back to 2002!!! All of sudden Federer started winning in 03, and grass was fast again? lol Then, Nadal started doing well, grass slow again.

lastly, Fed was asked about this a few years back and he said grass was still fast, he said the bounce was 'truer' as it's a different grass but that he thought it was still fast... even his fans dismissed Fed's comments as BS as they simply HAVE to find an excuse as to why Nadal can do well... If you notice, Djoker, Nadal, Fed do well on clay and grass cause they are GOATS. Who else? We tend to see a stark difference outside of these 3, with different guys performing differently on clay and grass. These 3 are just good all around so we can't say grass = clay just because these 3 can do well on both. look at the rest...

 

[Ricardo]

Based on performance so far, it’s an upset if Fed wins. No question about it. It’s unlikely that Fed would be pulling out his 2017 level again, out of nowhere, as he clearly hasn’t built up much form even close to that level. Now he needs to play two phenomenal matches to win his 9th, hmmm, less than 5% I’d say.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa's coach Moyer just tweeted,

'Rafa's doing everything right.His serve,his return,his rhythm,his defence.I'm watching from home.I can honestly say he's doing exactly what I'd be doing or wanting him to be doing'.

 

[Moxie]

Yes.....I am usually a 'walking zombie' the next day....for the finals matches start at 11.00pm.I usually take a nap at 7.00pm and wake up at either 10pm or 11pm...........depending on the length of matches........lots of black strong coffee.

I really don't envy what it takes for you to follow tennis, most of the year. We call ourselves Ozzie Vampires in January, around here in the US. But the window of when we have to watch tennis in the middle of the night is pretty small.

 

[Moxie]

Based on performance so far, it’s an upset if Fed wins. No question about it. It’s unlikely that Fed would be pulling out his 2017 level again, out of nowhere, as he clearly hasn’t built up much form even close to that level. Now he needs to play two phenomenal matches to win his 9th, hmmm, less than 5% I’d say.

It cannot qualify as an upset, as Roger is 2 and Rafa is 3. This match is too close to call, if you ask me. I agree that Roger hasn't been completely convincing throughout the fortnight, and Nadal has shown better form, but I also agree with whoever it was who said upthread that nothing that came before matters. They will play each other as they always have. We'll just have to see how it goes.

 

[DarthFed]

the slowing of the court has been greatly exaggerated by people.. The evidence isn't that clear. It's even more exaggerated by those who want to belittle Nadal's game (ah... he's 1 dimensional, only doing well on grass as grass is clay now etc..)

Let' analyze.

Borg did pretty well in the super fast grass didn't he? A baseliner. He dominated for years.. Jimmy Connors did pretty well on grass too.

During 90s, an era people allude to as 'the super fast grass'. base liners weren't exactly struggling on grass. Super grinder Courier made finals, super baseliner Malivai Washington made finals. Agassi won it one year and made finals of another year.

Yes, there were more S&Vers back then but base liners have benefited more from technology. Edberg, Rafter, Becker, Sampras would have a harder time coming to net against today's base liners, no matter how fast surface is. S&V is difficult, requires more skill and harder against returners with better tech...

If Agassi, Malivai Washington, Connors, Borg, Courier could do well on grass, Nadal and Djokovic would be HELL in 80s and 90s, especially with today's tech.

btw, i remember when Hewitt won Wimbledon, against Nalbandian, the experts claimed 'grass has slowed', this was all the way back to 2002!!! All of sudden Federer started winning in 03, and grass was fast again? lol Then, Nadal started doing well, grass slow again.

lastly, Fed was asked about this a few years back and he said grass was still fast, he said the bounce was 'truer' as it's a different grass but that he thought it was still fast... even his fans dismissed Fed's comments as BS as they simply HAVE to find an excuse as to why Nadal can do well... If you notice, Djoker, Nadal, Fed do well on clay and grass cause they are GOATS. Who else? We tend to see a stark difference outside of these 3, with different guys performing differently on clay and grass. These 3 are just good all around so we can't say grass = clay just because these 3 can do well on both. look at the rest...

No one says Wimbledon grass = clay but it's clear the extreme slowing of the grass has had a positive effect on some and a very negative effect on others. Obviously Roger is way way worse on clay than grass and opposite is true for Nadal. And if Wimbledon hadnt become the outlier of grass tournaments it's safe to say Roger would have done a lot better.

You mention the 2002 final which was slower since that was the first year they changed the surface. They apparently have not changed the surface since but they have clearly used heavier balls over time which the players have alluded to. Roger this year said even the USO plays faster than Wimbledon now.

 

[tented]

Rafa's coach Moyer just tweeted,

'Rafa's doing everything right.His serve,his return,his rhythm,his defence.I'm watching from home.I can honestly say he's doing exactly what I'd be doing or wanting him to be doing'.

(He’s been reading Tennis Frontier.)*








*

 

[tented]

Wow, you’d think they’re playing on green-dyed molasses with all of this talk of slow grass — which apparently gets slower every year.

The people who do shotspot should be able to figure this out definitively through the data they’ve collected over the years.

 

[Carol]

The grass is the same since 2001, the only difference is this year is hotter and dry (I hope it's not going to rain until Monday) that's why it looks drier

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

This speed of grass thing , I don't know man...To me, I am going by what I see and what I have seen over the years. I have also been watching Halle for ages and never had the impression it is slowing down. I do with Wimbledon. The thing is, how do you quantify it? Maybe one way of looking at is ace numbers. Maybe look at Roger's ace numbers. I don't know for sure but I have a feeling they are lower than previous years. But is his serve speed slower? I think it may have even increased after the racket change. Are people reading his serve better all of a sudden? I do not have the answers. If someone has a way of quantifying what is going on, that would be nice. I am going by a subjective eye test and it is much slower to me.

 

[britbox]

I've just been checking this out @Murat Baslamisli

if you look at this video, it definitely looks slower than in years gone by.

 

[atttomole]

Experts are saying so. Bethany Mattek-Sands, who played until last year, if I am not mistaken, said it was slower this year. Who knows, maybe she is trying to belittle Nadal.

 

[Moxie]

I've just been checking this out @Murat Baslamisli

if you look at this video, it definitely looks slower than in years gone by.

Smart-ass.

 

[Moxie]

Experts are saying so. Bethany Mattek-Sands, who played until last year, if I am not mistaken, said it was slower this year. Who knows, maybe she is trying to belittle Nadal.

I think a lot of people have said it's playing slow this year. There seems to be no consensus on the bounce (high or low.) The weather has definitely be drier than in most years, which affects the court, and on the warm side, if not actually hot.

 

[tented]

I think a lot of people have said it's playing slow this year.

I haven’t read every single post about the grass speed, but has anyone mentioned the fallibility of memory? Humans can be quite bad at remembering things accurately. (Rashomon) It could simply be that the court speed is exactly the same, but for some reason they’re perceiving it as being different. Maybe because they’re getting used to the heavier balls again, and spend the rest of the year using lighter ones, so “the grass” always seems slower. Who knows. This is why we need objective data on this.

 

[Moxie]

I haven’t read every single post about the grass speed, but has anyone mentioned the fallibility of memory? Humans can be quite bad at remembering things accurately. (Rashomon) It could simply be that the court speed is exactly the same, but for some reason they’re perceiving it as being different. Maybe because they’re getting used to the heavier balls again, and spend the rest of the year using lighter ones, so “the grass” always seems slower. Who knows. This is why we need objective data on this.

Funny, I was thinking about this today. Because Rafa said it seems the same to him. While some might say that could be self-serving, what if it's just hard to remember, year in and out? Now, I will say there seems to be a real consensus that it's particularly slow this year, but I will add back in the weather. Given that it's a natural surface, and that different players play on different courts on different days and different weather conditions, it might live differently in memory.

 

[El Dude]

It cannot qualify as an upset, as Roger is 2 and Rafa is 3. This match is too close to call, if you ask me. I agree that Roger hasn't been completely convincing throughout the fortnight, and Nadal has shown better form, but I also agree with whoever it was who said upthread that nothing that came before matters. They will play each other as they always have. We'll just have to see how it goes.

This is pretty much my view. Rafa is playing at a higher level and if both continue with the trajectory of the tournament, then I think he'll win. But there's a soft reset when the match begins.

 

[10isfan]

Halep’s in the final. Isn’t that enough evidence that the grass is playing slow?