2019 Men’s Wimbledon SF: Roger Federer vs. Rafael Nadal

[imjimmy]

I'd say the serve was the biggest one.

I'd actually say the backhand and the return of the serve were Nadal's big problems. I've NEVER seen Nadal return Fed's serve so poorly in any match of their rivalry stretching 15 years. And of course Fed's serve was not any better than it usually is (more on the contrary actually). Furthermore Rafa's backhand was also AWOL. Nadal completely lose the confidence in that shot. So he could only play is safe away from the corners or run around it. Hardly any flat DTL backhands or cross court winners - so basically he lost control as soon as his backhand was attacked. Which is strange because he hit the backhand great in RG and in prior rounds in Wimbledon.

Overall, Nadal lacked belief. There is a reason he is 0-14 against Fed and Djoker in last 14 Non-clay matches. As I had said before, in all the pre-SF matches in Wimbledon, he broke early and won set 1. I always wondered what would happen when he plays from behind and loses set 1. Same thing in AO 2019, when he was playing amazing - until the final where he was behind early and lost all confidence.

Problem for Rafa is that he is naturally aggressive ONLY when he is in the lead (breaks early or leads by a set) OR he is about to lose the match. That cost him dearly against Fed, as he unexpectedly played his worst match of the tournament by far. I was very surprised because I've not seen Nadal under perform like this on the big stage. But then it happened in AO 2019, now in Wimbledon - even when he played great against dangerous opponents such as Kygrios and Querrey in prior rounds.

All that suggests is that when push comes to shove, Nadal doesn't have the belief against his biggest rivals (Fed/Novak) away from clay. The one sided (0-14) h2h highlights that..

 

[rafanoy1992]

I agree with imjimmy assessment that his return of serve and backhand were bad especially in the 3rd and 4th set. He could not just return Federer's serve with depth and he was afraid to hit his backhand crosscourt to Federer's forehand. So my pre-match keys to victories were correct for both players.

As for the confidence thing, it is an interesting but correct assessment.

 

[DarthFed]

I was telling people in PM's that Rafa's scorelines were a bit deceptive as he didn't play a single good baseliner in the first 5 rounds. Slower grass this year plus a lot of confidence vs no baseline threats = mostly smooth sailing.

Nadal did look deadly against Tsonga but he was there for the taking against Nick. I didn't see his two matches before this but I'm sure he looked great against Sousa and Querrey, would we expect anything else? I don't think he was any worse Friday than he was against Kyrgios especially if you want to talk about poor returning.

I will admit Rafa's ROS was pretty bad the last 2 sets but his main problem over the course of the match was the baseline. The best set from both men was set 1 and Roger clearly outplayed him. He was put on the defensive early in most of those rallies which is what Roger has done well to flip around the rivalry. And Rafa can no longer rely on just rolling the forehand to Roger's backhand all match. I still think Nadal wins the majority of the long rallies but it's a lot closer now and a big part of it is that he can't just go to the old bread and butter and wait for an error or a short ball.

Anyways if you guys are going to cry about underperforming can you really stop piling on when I talk about Roger's regrettable performance in 2008?

 

[Carol]

I only saw him in the box yesterday, but Toni was definitely there. I guess Carol didn't watch the match, because he was pretty hard to miss, and they also made mention of it on the US feed. Anyway, I'm sure why it matters. Rafa played his worst match of the tournament yesterday. Really poor serving performance, and not much sting on his shots later in the match. Uncharacteristic errors. I won't get into a pissing match about that with you, because I will give credit to Roger for playing the much better match in the last 2 sets. But I don't think it had anything to do with who was in the box. Much more to do with Roger and Rafa.

Bad guess because I watched the match but again I don’t remember to see Toni and I know that he wasn’t there the days before the match which I’m very curious to know why he and Moyà wasn’t in this GS when we know how important is the presence of the coaches and more during the practices

 

[Carol]

Ah, but when I talk about Roger underperforming at Wimbledon 2008 you jump all over me. Oh the irony...

Are you comparing W 2008 final with the semis 2019? come on! don't make me laugh, that final was a classic and very good played by both players, this semis was awful, very mediocre and odd match with a lot of up and down and more downs by Nadal which made Federer to play very conformable the third and fourth sets.

 

[kskate2]

Bad guess because I watched the match but again I don’t remember to see Toni and I know that he wasn’t there the days before the match which I’m very curious to know why he and Moyà wasn’t in this GS when we know how important is the presence of the coaches and more during the practices

There's a whole thread that talks about Moya and Nadal's coaching relationship

 

[britbox]

I don’t know why but I can’t see the vid. Anyway everybody is talking about it , his uncle and father were there but not Toni, not even when Rafa was practicing, only Roig, but if you saw him there....ok

Not sure why you keep insisting he wasn't there...

 

[MikeOne]

Are you comparing W 2008 final with the semis 2019? come on! don't make me laugh, that final was a classic and very good played by both players, this semis was awful, very mediocre and odd match with a lot of up and down and more downs by Nadal which made Federer to play very conformable the third and fourth sets.

Federer played very well in 08 final... especially last 3 sets.. Darth just can't accept it.

One of the amazing things is how some fanboys think that the racquet is always on their player's hands, every match. Fan boys like Darth watched Fed abuse guys like Roddick, Hewitt and think he could've done same to Novak or Nadal. The opponent largely dictates how you play, Federer can't do to Nadal or Novak what he did to Hewitt or Roddick... It's hard for these fanboys to understand this very simple point though... In 2008, Federer reached finals without dropping a set and had someone else being in finals, he would've most likely straight setted them. The reason he lost was all Nadal, period. the fact that he didn't look as good as he did when be toyed with Roddick and others has a simple explanation - NADAL.

Similarly, Nadal was on fire before making semis this year, Federer was his problem. You can point to Nadal playing badly but it was largely due to Federer. This is what many fail to comprehend, a player like Nadal or Federer don't dictate how well they play, it largely depends on opponents. When an opponent like Roddick cannot play good defense or put pressure on the return, someone like Federer gets in a flow, when an opponent like Djokovic or Nadal makes it tougher, ups the pressure, Federer may miss more serves, miss more shots. It's the opponent...

I think Nadal was playing really well and i don't believe that all of sudden, he just played poorly in semis... Federer's game was the issue.

 

[atttomole]

Federer played very well in 08 final... especially last 3 sets.. Darth just can't accept it.

One of the amazing things is how some fanboys think that the racquet is always on their player's hands, every match. Fan boys like Darth watched Fed abuse guys like Roddick, Hewitt and think he could've done same to Novak or Nadal. The opponent largely dictates how you play, Federer can't do to Nadal or Novak what he did to Hewitt or Roddick... It's hard for these fanboys to understand this very simple point though... In 2008, Federer reached finals without dropping a set and had someone else being in finals, he would've most likely straight setted them. The reason he lost was all Nadal, period. the fact that he didn't look as good as he did when be toyed with Roddick and others has a simple explanation - NADAL.

Similarly, Nadal was on fire before making semis this year, Federer was his problem. You can point to Nadal playing badly but it was largely due to Federer. This is what many fail to comprehend, a player like Nadal or Federer don't dictate how well they play, it largely depends on opponents. When an opponent like Roddick cannot play good defense or put pressure on the return, someone like Federer gets in a flow, when an opponent like Djokovic or Nadal makes it tougher, ups the pressure, Federer may miss more serves, miss more shots. It's the opponent...

I think Nadal was playing really well and i don't believe that all of sudden, he just played poorly in semis... Federer's game was the issue.

So can you explain the semifinal result 2 days ago? How did Rafa lose to Roger?

 

[Carol]

So can you explain the semifinal result 2 days ago? How did Rafa lose to Roger?

Playing pretty bad the third set and the fourth it was to late when he started to play and serving good again, not more not less, or you are going to tell me that he played excellent but Roger did much better or Roger didn't let him to play well?.

 

[Carol]

Not sure why you keep insisting he wasn't there...

View attachment 2489

Maybe the one with the black hat? unrecognizable!

 

[Carol]

There's a whole thread that talks about Moya and Nadal's coaching relationship

But I'm talking about this Wimbledon and the absence of his coaches

 

[MikeOne]

So can you explain the semifinal result 2 days ago? How did Rafa lose to Roger?

didn't i just explain it? Federer played better than Nadal. Are you strangely making the point that it can only go one way? this is not how tennis works. In 08, Nadal played a brand of tennis that largely determined outcome, in 19, Federer tuned the tables. Neither player can win every time, they are both good enough to beat each other, even when the loser is playing well. A tennis match is complicated, a point here and there can get in a player's head, make him miss... Out of pure coincidence, a certain point can be determined by a bit of luck, a bit of nerves, someone succumbing to pressure and tactics. In 08, it went nadal's way, in 19, it went Fed's way. What is so confusing to you? Seems you think a match can only go one way, then you don't know tennis.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The best man won..Grand Slam Roger played the big points more agressively than ATP Rafa did..If I could ask Rafa one question,. It would be, "What in the Hell are you playing for..he would have gotten creamed by Novak..He said he didn't have confidence in his BH..For the sake and love of Christ , Why ??? The CC BH had been a thing of brilliance since mid May..but he decided to not use it against Roger. it was the only way Rafa could loose was to began to play passively like he did AO 2017. I was as ignorant and a pure POS like Federerbeg and Broken Shoelaces..I would suggest that the ATP fine him for lack of effort..

 

[DarthFed]

Are you comparing W 2008 final with the semis 2019? come on! don't make me laugh, that final was a classic and very good played by both players, this semis was awful, very mediocre and odd match with a lot of up and down and more downs by Nadal which made Federer to play very conformable the third and fourth sets.

Roger was a bum most of 2008. The fact he can handily beat a much more complete Nadal in 2019 is confirmation of that. In 2008 Rafa was an average server, allergic to net, all around less aggressive. Roger couldn't return serve to save his life that day and lost the vast majority of big points at the beginning and end. An insane amount of UFE's, 1/13 BP's, awful errors to get broken and to end the match. Of course haters like you and MikeOne will call that an incredible performance but for most the match he stunk.

 

[roberto]

I watched the match from start to finish plus Novak's press conference. I like both Roger and Novak, but what made the latter's win even more impressive is that he won with his B+ game while Federer was redlining throughout. As Novak himself said, I wasn't serving that well, and definitely not returning up to my standards, especially on Roger's second serves. To those who say Roger outplayed Novak throughout (which he mostly did) and just fell short in the TBs when he got tight, I'll respond with another hypothetical: imagine if Nole played his A game?

 

[DarthFed]

I watched the match from start to finish plus Novak's press conference. I like both Roger and Novak, but what made the latter's win even more impressive is that he won with his B+ game while Federer was redlining throughout. As Novak himself said, I wasn't serving that well, and definitely not returning up to my standards, especially on Roger's second serves. To those who say Roger outplayed Novak throughout (which he mostly did) and just fell short in the TBs when he got tight, I'll respond with another hypothetical: imagine if Nole played his A game?

How did Roger redline? If Novak had played well it'd have been a lot easier. If Roger didn't go all blonde when it mattered he'd have won easily too.

 

[roberto]

Roger's serving was impeccable. He usually has at least one AWOL patch in a big match, and he served incredibly throughout. The rest of his game flows from there as we know, but his mobility and shot making precision were as good as I've seen him (and not too shabby against Nadal either!). Having said all that, I couldn't see Roger playing significantly better than he did, except on a few key points of course. Nole, however, is capable of FAR better return of serve--particularly on second serves---as he himself stated in his presser afterwards. And his serves was below par as well.

 

[kskate2]

But I'm talking about this Wimbledon and the absence of his coaches

Like I said, someone started a whole thread about it
https://www.tennisfrontier.com/tennisforum/threads/nadal-and-moya.6536/

 

[DarthFed]

Roger's serving was impeccable. He usually has at least one AWOL patch in a big match, and he served incredibly throughout. The rest of his game flows from there as we know, but his mobility and shot making precision were as good as I've seen him (and not too shabby against Nadal either!). Having said all that, I couldn't see Roger playing significantly better than he did, except on a few key points of course. Nole, however, is capable of FAR better return of serve--particularly on second serves---as he himself stated in his presser afterwards. And his serves was below par as well.

Roger's serve was not even average, I think Djokovic's subpar return (for his standards) made Roger's serve look good. Fed barely landed a first serve in during the TB's, overall was just 63%, 25 aces on 200+ serve points. Below average if anything when you factor it all in. Roger's play in the big moments of 1st, 3rd and 5th was putrid. He deserved to lose.