2018 Wimbledon men’s SF: Djokovic v Nadal

[DarthFed]

Novak is not a very honest person..it is what it is.. there will be other tournaments..

Grass court tennis isn't meant to be played on an obnoxiously high bouncing court. The match resembled a true grass court a lot more than the rest of the filth that was this tournament. Nadal did decent without his precious high bounce, he played very aggressive and showed a little bit of everything. it just wasn't quite good enough.

 

[Moxie]

Grass court tennis isn't meant to be played on an obnoxiously high bouncing court. The match resembled a true grass court a lot more than the rest of the filth that was this tournament. Nadal did decent without his precious high bounce, he played very aggressive and showed a little bit of everything. it just wasn't quite good enough.

Oh, he was good enough. Sadly, it seems, Djokovic is still in his head. He had more than enough opportunities, and blew them. You think you're mad that Roger tanked against Anderson? This was an unwarranted capitulation on Rafa's part.

 

[DarthFed]

Oh, he was good enough. Sadly, it seems, Djokovic is still in his head. He had more than enough opportunities, and blew them. You think you're mad that Roger tanked against Anderson? This was an unwarranted capitulation on Rafa's part.

No doubt about that, I just meant he didn't win. I think most agree that he really should've though I'd say Roger's collapse was 10 times worse.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Oh, he was good enough. Sadly, it seems, Djokovic is still in his head. He had more than enough opportunities, and blew them. You think you're mad that Roger tanked against Anderson? This was an unwarranted capitulation on Rafa's part.

Great point Moxie although I doubt if “unwarranted capitulation “ is part of either Darth’s or my vocabulary. Although I will use it on one of my kids when they asked for a cash advance on their allowances.

 

[Vince Evert]

Quote Nadal: “It’s an outdoor tournament. OK, we start indoors. What I don’t understand is, today, we could have started outdoors.

“Today we continued undercover because we started undercover. I don’t think it’s right. It’s an outdoor tournament.

“If the previous part of the match started with the roof on, there was logic but I don’t understand why it had to be closed.”

I'm impartial as i do not like either of the two, but Rafa is 100 percent correct. What do you think? To me the match had it been finished outdoors would have been to Nadal's advantage.

 

[Federberg]

^This was the policy, and it was known before Wimbledon started. Rafa can whine about it, but it is what it is. Both players experienced the same conditions. He lost, despite the fact he was the better player. He has only himself to blame. End of story

 

[DarthFed]

Quote Nadal: “It’s an outdoor tournament. OK, we start indoors. What I don’t understand is, today, we could have started outdoors.

“Today we continued undercover because we started undercover. I don’t think it’s right. It’s an outdoor tournament.

“If the previous part of the match started with the roof on, there was logic but I don’t understand why it had to be closed.”

I'm impartial as i do not like either of the two, but Rafa is 100 percent correct. What do you think? To me the match had it been finished outdoors would have been to Nadal's advantage.

There's an argument for both sides. I think it is more ideal to play the full match under the same conditions if at all possible. Say the match started with the roof open and it started to rain but they know it will only be an hour or less. To me they shouldn't close the roof in that example. That basically happened for the 2012 final. They closed it after the 2nd set even though I don't think it rained too long. And I'm saying this as a Federer fan (though he would've won anyways).

Here they had every reason to start with the roof closed, they simply had to. And even coming back the following day with it being sunny out I can understand the logic of playing under the roof. That didn't cost Nadal the match anyways, he simply blew it yesterday against a guy who was underwhelming for most of the two sets that were played.

 

[monfed]

Only one vote for faker in 5. Interesting, not many believe in faker's mental strength to pull it off in 5.

 

[Fiero425]

Oh well; gotta go change all the NOLE stats and blogs! This'll take a while! BBL! :whistle:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Quote Nadal: “It’s an outdoor tournament. OK, we start indoors. What I don’t understand is, today, we could have started outdoors.

“Today we continued undercover because we started undercover. I don’t think it’s right. It’s an outdoor tournament.

“If the previous part of the match started with the roof on, there was logic but I don’t understand why it had to be closed.”

I'm impartial as i do not like either of the two, but Rafa is 100 percent correct. What do you think? To me the match had it been finished outdoors would have been to Nadal's advantage.

1. They followed preexisting rule which is correct. You cannot change the rules in the middle of tourney.

2. It should not matter what the players involved think. The rules should determine in a fixed manner in what conditions the match will be played.

3. However, I am in favor of changing the rules to make it outdoor whenever feasible. I think keeping it outdoor is more important than playing the entire match under the same conditions.

4. I don't think it played a major role in Rafa's loss. The contribution of indoor stuff is negligible in my opinion on the result of the match. Rafa did hold up very well on indoor grass.

 

[Vince Evert]

1. They followed preexisting rule which is correct. You cannot change the rules in the middle of tourney.

2. It should not matter what the players involved think. The rules should determine in a fixed manner in what conditions the match will be played.

3. However, I am in favor of changing the rules to make it outdoor whenever feasible. I think keeping it outdoor is more important than playing the entire match under the same conditions.

4. I don't think it played a major role in Rafa's loss. The contribution of indoor stuff is negligible in my opinion on the result of the match. Rafa did hold up very well on indoor grass.

Well said, especially with your third point. Certainly agree.

 

[the AntiPusher]

There's an argument for both sides. I think it is more ideal to play the full match under the same conditions if at all possible. Say the match started with the roof open and it started to rain but they know it will only be an hour or less. To me they shouldn't close the roof in that example. That basically happened for the 2012 final. They closed it after the 2nd set even though I don't think it rained too long. And I'm saying this as a Federer fan (though he would've won anyways).

Here they had every reason to start with the roof closed, they simply had to. And even coming back the following day with it being sunny out I can understand the logic of playing under the roof. That didn't cost Nadal the match anyways, he simply blew it yesterday against a guy who was underwhelming for most of the two sets that were played.

That’s bull crap..the roof made the difference..Novak’s serves are nowhere’s the almost Pete Sampras type of display he put on for Friday and Saturday’s match. Darth, quit the delegitimization of the close roof and Rafael level of competing..Rafa played the best grasscourt Tennis since 2011 and I would say even better. Novak’s serves were the difference. I agree Novak deserved to win the match and the championship but quit taking us for idiots. Give Novak credit, just as Rosol did, the close roof added more mphs to his serves. Novak played the best tennis he has since 2016 and was a beneficiary of the All England Clubs outdated rules. The player who was able to be aided by the close roof conditions won but that’s low rent for you to try to discredit the level of play. Both players played aggressively and was outstanding on defense.

 

[Moxie]

A-P, while I do think Rafa would have been more comfortable if the roof had been open and Novak less so, I think the main reason Rafa lost was mental. He had chances to put that thing away and didn't. He was the better player the majority of both days, and he didn't close the door. Golden opportunities missed. It stings, but I don't see blaming the roof.

 

[DarthFed]

That’s bull crap..the roof made the difference..Novak’s serves are nowhere’s the almost Pete Sampras type of display he put on for Friday and Saturday’s match. Darth, quit the delegitimization of the close roof and Rafael level of competing..Rafa played the best grasscourt Tennis since 2011 and I would say even better. Novak’s serves were the difference. I agree Novak deserved to win the match and the championship but quit taking us for idiots. Give Novak credit, just as Rosol did, the close roof added more mphs to his serves. Novak played the best tennis he has since 2016 and was a beneficiary of the All England Clubs outdated rules. The player who was able to be aided by the close roof conditions won but that’s low rent for you to try to discredit the level of play. Both players played aggressively and was outstanding on defense.

You don't see how ridiculous it is for you to beg for it to be outdoor due to the ball bouncing stupid high at WIMBLEDON!! Remember back when our old fav Sampras ruled Wimbledon. Imagine what would happen if they didn't switch the surface, I think you know damn well what Roger and Rafa would be like on the real grass. My point is Rafa is in no position to ever complain at Wimbledon...never.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You don't see how ridiculous it is for you to beg for it to be outdoor due to the ball bouncing stupid high at WIMBLEDON!! Remember back when our old fav Sampras ruled Wimbledon. Imagine what would happen if they didn't switch the surface, I think you know damn well what Roger and Rafa would be like on the real grass. My point is Rafa is in no position to ever complain at Wimbledon...never.

Darth..I am not begging for outdoor but if it’s sunny or not raining , the roof needed to stay open..that’s all..you are going down the path of revisionish history to again make a case based on delegitimization against Nadal..if it was Roger vs Isner you would be the first to cry foul if it wasn’t incoming or current inclimate weather..

 

[the AntiPusher]

A-P, while I do think Rafa would have been more comfortable if the roof had been open and Novak less so, I think the main reason Rafa lost was mental. He had chances to put that thing away and didn't. He was the better player the majority of both days, and he didn't close the door. Golden opportunities missed. It stings, but I don't see blaming the roof.

it wasn’t mental..Novak’s defense puts a ton a pressure on his opponent’s ability to hit winners. My complaint is with Darth delegitimization of the match especially Nadal’s level of play..As for the Roof, the rules are rules so be it. However, Novak is not known for being a lights out server.. For once let’s all be honest and forthcoming Tennis fans.

 

[Moxie]

it wasn’t mental..Novak’s defense puts a ton a pressure on his opponent’s ability to hit winners. My complaint is with Darth delegitimization of the match especially Nadal’s level of play..As for the Roof, the rules are rules so be it. However, Novak is not known for being a lights out server.. For once let’s all be honest and forthcoming Tennis fans.

Darth has actually said that Rafa played better than Novak. The roof helped Novak. If that weren't true, he'd have asked for it to be opened on Day 2. But I really do think that Rafa missed chances he wouldn't normally miss. Novak basically stole the 3rd set from him. He never should have let that happen. That was mental, IMO. And after winning the 4th in such a fashion, he should have run away with the 5th, and didn't.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Darth has actually said that Rafa played better than Novak. The roof helped Novak. If that weren't true, he'd have asked for it to be opened on Day 2. But I really do think that Rafa missed chances he wouldn't normally miss. Novak basically stole the 3rd set from him. He never should have let that happen. That was mental, IMO. And after winning the 4th in such a fashion, he should have run away with the 5th, and didn't.

I would say that the 1st and 3rd set were more mental than the 5th set, Moxie. In the 1st set, Nadal was just scared to hit the ball hard against Djokovic which annoyed at the heck out of me, then we all know what happened in the 3rd set tiebreaker.

As for the 5th set, both players went to toe to toe with each other. The key difference is that Nadal did not made THAT return against Djokovic serve (especially that 4-4 30-40...). And I knew that if Nadal could not return that serve, he will lose the match because Nadal will get nervous and dump serve.

The thing about Nadal especially at age 32 is that he will more than likely blink meaning lose his own serve even after getting the break. I think as he's gotten older, he became more susceptible to the "yips." It was unfortunate but all we can do at this point is to move on.

However, I do think that kind of performance will give Nadal some type of confidence to win another slam outside of Clay, I promise you that!

 

[DarthFed]

it wasn’t mental..Novak’s defense puts a ton a pressure on his opponent’s ability to hit winners. My complaint is with Darth delegitimization of the match especially Nadal’s level of play..As for the Roof, the rules are rules so be it. However, Novak is not known for being a lights out server.. For once let’s all be honest and forthcoming Tennis fans.

I'm not bashing the match or Nadal's play that much. You know where I stand on the surface and anything that makes it closer to optimal conditions at Wimbledon is welcomed. The grass when indoors was not obnoxiously high bouncing, it still had too much bounce and was too slow but better than the norm that tournament has become. Nadal has been gifted too much at Wimbledon as is.

 

[Moxie]

I'm not bashing the match or Nadal's play that much. You know where I stand on the surface and anything that makes it closer to optimal conditions at Wimbledon is welcomed. The grass when indoors was not obnoxiously high bouncing, it still had too much bounce and was too slow but better than the norm that tournament has become. Nadal has been gifted too much at Wimbledon as is.

Do all the complaining you like, and you will, but no one gifted Nadal two Wimbledon wins. If Rafa were as unsuited to grass as you say, even your "fake-grass," then any number of players could have won and he wouldn't have. He's been plenty good on grass.